No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

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No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby cra1g321 on Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:34 am

Just read a post on webupd8 that the Synaptic Package Manager will be removed by default when 11.04 arrives. Seems there trying to encourage :wink: people to use the ubuntu software center.
Personally i use the Synaptic Package Manager for installing all my programs. So guess it will be another thing they have removed that i need. Maybe this will be the final thing that will keep me away from ubuntu. (bad enough having to look at that ugly theme everytime i use ubuntu)
On mint atm but usually hop over to ubuntu now and again.

heres the link - http://www.webupd8.org/2010/09/synaptic ... -soon.html

Does anyone think this will help a new user or just make thing more annoying for existing users ? I cant see this really benefiting anyone. Why dont they just keep both then everyone happy ? What happens it if need to install a certain package will i have to use the terminal instead?
i could always just install Synaptic again but it shouldnt be removed in the 1st place
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby waldo on Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:29 am

Support for Synaptic is not being dropped. It is merely being removed from the default installation.

I read the follow-up comments to the article you cited. IMO, Ubuntu is correct in removing Synaptic. So should Mint. It is just one more item to confuse the non-technical user, and Mint is aimed at the very people that are confused by too many options.

Those that appreciate the power of Synaptic can easily install it.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby Gramps50 on Sat Sep 04, 2010 6:53 pm

First off just because Ubuntu removes it doesn't mean that Mint will. If it is removed it will just go on my list of programs I install when I do a new install. Personally I never use the Software Center, guess I'm old school I prefer apt-get, or synaptic.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby dawgdoc on Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:14 pm

Gramps50 wrote:First off just because Ubuntu removes it doesn't mean that Mint will. If it is removed it will just go on my list of programs I install when I do a new install. Personally I never use the Software Center, guess I'm old school I prefer apt-get, or synaptic.


+1 @ Gramps

pretty much the same for me, in my first few months using Mint-6 I may have used Software Manager as much as I used Synaptic, but not since. Now I about equally use Synaptic and apt-get
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby randomizer on Sat Sep 04, 2010 11:55 pm

Ubuntu has a "one default program per task" philosophy so eventually USC will have similar enough functionality to Synaptic that Synaptic will not be needed in the default distribution. I rarely install software via the GUI though, so I could remove both programs.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby MALsPa on Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:53 am

Yeah, for those who prefer Synaptic, it's probably no big deal. I prefer using Synaptic in Mint, too.

I looked through some old notes and found that when I first installed Debian Etch, and then Debian Lenny (using 5-CD sets each time), one of the first things I did was run apt-get install synaptic. The installation CD didn't include it. And it seems to me that I've installed Synaptic in one or two other distros that didn't include it by default, but I can't recall which ones those were. So it won't bother me if Ubuntu doesn't include it by default.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby bobcollard on Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:14 am

Not long ago, within the last year when I started using Linux, Synaptic was not on many of the Distros, you had to install it. If it comes up again like that I'll install it myself.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby tdockery97 on Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:43 am

A also prefer Synaptic for pakage installing. That's why PCLinuxOS is one of my favorite alternate distros, because it comes with Synaptic.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby Susu on Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:13 pm

Ubuntu dropped aptitude with 10.04 IIRC - that is on the install ISO. So WHAT? It is the easiest thing to install it once the installation is done. Same goes for synaptic and 11.04. Those who like will install it anyway. Those who have no need for it won't miss it. I'm sorry to say so but this discussion is pointless IMO.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby MALsPa on Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:47 pm

Susu wrote:I'm sorry to say so but this discussion is pointless IMO.


Some folks might find it to be informative. Doesn't hurt to discuss it.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby rivenathos on Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:15 pm

At least if you are an Ubuntu user, this gives you a heads-up in advance so you do not freak out when you cannot find Synaptic. Just as with the GIMP, you can install Synaptic afterwards. We all probably have our list of favorite applications we install in most every distro we use. This is just one more to add to the list. As has been policy in the past, Mint does not always follow what Ubuntu does.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby linuxviolin on Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:04 pm

For me, Synaptic must be here by default. Period. Ubuntu, like usual, is not so good on that. And why their USC in the first place? Like randomizer said: "USC will have similar enough functionality to Synaptic", so why have created it in the first place? Why seek/try to reinvent the wheel? Idiot... again!

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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby randomizer on Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:34 pm

Because Ubuntu devs love re-inventing the wheel ;) USC is a bit less confusing at first because it doesn't display everything you could possibly want to know at once. But it's not very efficient IMO. Installing or uninstalling multiple apps at once is a bit of a hassle. Synaptic and apt-get are much more efficient.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby MALsPa on Sun Sep 05, 2010 11:02 pm

The good thing is that nobody has to use Ubuntu if they don't like the way they do things!

No big deal. I'm pretty sure that the USC will work fine for installing Synaptic, right? :lol:
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby mintnoob on Mon Sep 06, 2010 12:29 am

cra1g321 wrote:Personally i use the Synaptic Package Manager for installing all my programs.

Me too.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby markcynt on Mon Sep 06, 2010 3:41 am

Susu wrote:I'm sorry to say so but this discussion is pointless IMO.


Not really, because Mint team members browse the forum, they can see what the consensus is on the matter.

IMO, in and of itself, it's not really a big deal to get rid of Synaptic, since it's easily installed.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby linuxviolin on Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:01 am

markcynt wrote:IMO, in and of itself, it's not really a big deal to get rid of Synaptic, since it's easily installed.

Well, not really. Yes, the user can add it relatively easily but the apps and tools installed, set up, by default are quite important for a new user. The first impression is quite important... e.g. some, after a bad feeling, a bad first impression, doesn't like what they see and just remove the distro and change it.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby monkeyboy on Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:36 am

markcynt wrote:
Susu wrote:I'm sorry to say so but this discussion is pointless IMO.


Not really, because Mint team members browse the forum, they can see what the consensus is on the matter.

IMO, in and of itself, it's not really a big deal to get rid of Synaptic, since it's easily installed.


It is likely that there will never be a consensus on this issue for a number of reasons. Firstly much of the debate comes down to individual choice and preferences which seldom change through debate. Second both sides have legitimate arguments supporting their positions. Sadly such debates often degenerate into troll bait.
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby richyrich on Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:42 am

@monkeyboy

a big +1 for your signature line ! :D
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Re: No more Synaptic starting from 11.04

Postby Katzedecimal on Mon Sep 06, 2010 10:55 am

cra1g321 wrote:Does anyone think this will help a new user or just make thing more annoying for existing users ?


Hmm. Actually I think this could keep new users from becoming confident users. One of the things I like about Synaptic is the Force-Version feature that allows me to roll back a botched update. This restored my system sound when it was borked by a bad Level 3 gstreamer update back in Mint 5 Elyssa. Having 'safety lanyards' like the Grub menu and Synaptic's Force-Version encouraged me to be bolder with my system, knowing that if I did break some eggs, I could put it back the way it was with little to no lasting harm. Thus I've learned a great deal about my system and have instilled that confidence in others.

There's a difference between wearing a parachute and cancelling the flight; it seems to me that Ubuntu is increasingly trying to cancel the flights, preventing new users from making the jumps in the first place and thus never leaving the new-user ground (ironically while giving them an increasingly-shaky ground to stand on.) One of the things I have loved and promoted about Linux Mint is that it is a good learning distro, offering a gentler learning curve to go from newbie to power user. Mint and its community members are excellent about giving new users their parachutes and safety lanyards, telling them how to use them, and encouraging them to make the jump.

While I understand Ubuntu wants to make their system as 'newbie-friendly' as possible, by dumbing it down too much, taking away first the Grub menu and then Synaptic with its rescue capabilities, Ubuntu seems to be behaving like an over-protective parent who wants their babies to stay dependent children forever, never growing up. But then, Ubuntu has been getting a reputation as "what Microsoft does in its hobby time" :roll:
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