Linux is Not Windows

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Chi on Sat Jan 12, 2008 2:10 am

Awesome article. Thanks for the link :D.

Just swtich a Windoze user over to Mint, they couldn't believe that after a 5 minute install that they did not have to download anything to view pdf, doc or zip files. The look on their face was even better when they found out that they could install most (if not all) of their applications from one place (no searching around dodgey third party websites).
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby fleischwanze on Sun Jan 27, 2008 10:37 am

This is a very great article. I read the german translastion a few months ago.
I hope that a moderator will make it a sticky.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Hardy on Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:31 pm

Excellent article! I'll point friends that don't "get" my use of Linux in that direction.

Mint has actually seen me return to Linux almost full time, after a brief dalliance with OSX (until my ibook gave up the ghost). I'm very excited about the next Mint distro, and the progress of other OS software. Gimp allegedly has text improvements on the way (one of my main reasons for firing up PS on Win). OpenOffice will apparently be able to interact with the Mozilla address book - another bit of synergy I long for.

Just need to get Banshee a little more stable (I'm a sucker for a pretty UI - Amarok just doesn't do it for me) and life will be pretty sweet. The next few months could well see the rise of OS methinks.....
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby jackcalvert on Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:20 pm

Great article, well written. Thanks for posting it, Carlos!

An old friend of mine, a lifelong programmer & consultant (his name can be found in the credits of the latest release of OSAS), once lamented the advent of the GUI (and Windows), because it enabled a worldful of people to use computers and execute programs without "knowing anything," such as how to use MS-DOS. (Did I mention that he's a huge fan of LINUX?) Not being a programmer, I argued the shopworn analogy that one oughtn't need be a mechanic in order to operate a motor vehicle. Naturally, my words came back to bite me.

As a starving writer, artist, and indie filmmaker, I was driving an old Dodge van, because it was all I could afford at the time. It was like the Scooby-Doo Mystery Machine, only with buttloads of rust. One night I heard a roaring sound and saw a trail of sparks in the rear-view mirror. Inspection revealed that the previous owner had replaced a muffler bracket with a coat hanger, and the coat hanger had come loose. Other parts started to fail, and soon the old girl was shedding vital components the way a dog shakes off fleas. Unable to afford the necessary repairs, I got a Haynes manual and learned how to do them myself. I'm no mechanic, however I was able to replace the alternator, the starter, and the water pump, all for the cost of parts and a few tools. It took a little research and elbow grease, but I was able to keep the damned thing running for a fraction of what it would've cost at the local auto shop. It was also empowering, because I realized I didn't have to depend on somebody else to keep the vehicle running. It helps to know what's going on "under the hood."

The lesson, of course, is that knowledge means freedom and independence, which is as true of OSes as it is automobiles. But freedom isn't free. It takes a lot of work, thought, and sacrifice. In this respect, the various permutations of LINUX, while free, are nevertheless the product of an enormous amount of work, thought and sacrifice on the part of the developers and contributors. As an end user, I don't mind having to do a little research or work on my end, because it's a small price to pay for the freedom afforded by LINUX. There's a reason why Industrial Light and Magic (ILM) and Dreamworks are using open source LINUX-based graphics and editing programs. It's not because these programs are free (which they are), but because they offer a level of creative freedom previously unafforded by more conventional, "user-friendly" OSes.

I'm not a programmer, nor am I the most tech-savvy guy in the world, however I am tired of the endless Windows/Internet Explorer errors, and memory-gobbling patches, and virus vulnerabilities, and Norton/McAfee dependence, and the fact that Windows has been the "800-pound gorilla" for far too long. Yesterday I wiped Windows XP from my hard drive and installed Ubuntu, which I liked very much. I've subsequently replaced Ubuntu with LinuxMint, which I like even better, and am looking forward to using.

-=Jack=-
(a born-again LINUX user)
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby sundayrefugee on Mon Apr 21, 2008 1:25 am

Disclaimer: I can Gentoo in my sleep and have LFS'd. I do not say this to brag, but merely to put my following statements into perspective.

Counterphilosophy: I appreciate the easing of *nix. True, for the curious/enthusiastic types like myself, we'll never stop tinkering, *trying* to break things (the Amtal rule from Dune), and when Gentoo gets boring we just LFS.

That being said, the world is too big now, too full of specialized info, to expect people to become technical experts on every subject they encounter, or every tech the may require, on a daily basis. I fully support the movements in Linux that make things as easy as possible, and I simply do not see why every user must have a *deep* knowledge of the OS. Granted, it *always* helps, but then again, those questions are also what *we're* for ;-)

I, myself, have a wife, 2 kids, a management job, 34,000 things in real life that keep me busy, several involving hobbies. I don't think I should realistically, somehow, *in between* all of that, be *expected* to understand the tech behind, say, Linux in order to use it. I should be expected to understand the basics, sure, and the differences between it and Windows, especially in simply *not* expecting it to *be* windows.

But I'd also hate to go into a Doctor's office, find I've been diagnosed with cancer, and have him sigh, bemoan that the world is full of lazy, stupid people, who could easily educate themselves on the treatment, just like he did, if they put in the effort and elbow grease. Yes, it's an extreme example, but sometimes those work best. And yes, there are flaws in the analogy, but it serves the basic point ;)

Myself, it's always why I keep a distro like Mint, and a distro like Fedora, or Gentoo around. Mint is just there. It just works. It's easy to set up, easy to maintain, and easy to add to/change what I'd like. Dependable. Then there's a *play* partition, that, like I mentioned above, may have, at any given time, say, Gentoo, or Sid, or whatever else I'm currently hacking, playing with, and breaking - and ultimately learning from ;-)
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby BadFish on Wed May 21, 2008 11:24 pm

Linux is not Windows but Ford is not Chevy, which is not Dodge, which is not Ferrari which is not Datsun. Yet if I am blindfolded in a Ford, I can probably find the radio, back seat and truck even if I am used to a Dodge I think Linux should model itself after Windows (without the flaws) just like Ford is like Chevy. It is different, but like it. Linux will not be serious challenge until it realizes that Windows is the standard and Linux needs to meet its rival on its playing field.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Fred on Thu May 22, 2008 12:53 am

BadFish wrote:
I think Linux should model itself after Windows (without the flaws) just like Ford is like Chevy. It is different, but like it. Linux will not be serious challenge until it realizes that Windows is the standard and Linux needs to meet its rival on its playing field.


Sorry, but I couldn't disagree with you more! Unix and Unix like OSs were around before Windows came onto the scene and will be around after Windows has faded into the sunset.

Windows is a one company, one pony, proprietary mess. There is nothing "standard" about it. It might be your standard but it certainly isn't mine.

Linux was never intended to be a better Windows, and I hope it is never reduced to that. Linux is only in competition with Windows in the media's and some companies' minds. It certainly isn't in competition with Windows in most developer's and user's minds.

Linux is what it is; A better way of computing than some of the other OSs available, in my opinion. For those that wish to learn and use it, I applaud them for their good judgment. For those that are happy with whatever Microsoft dishes out, I wish them well. :-)

Microsoft might be in competition with Linux, but Linux is not in competition with Windows. And it shouldn't even try to be. I am reminded of an old saying, "never play another man's game unless your intent is to lose."

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby MagnusB on Thu May 22, 2008 2:30 am

BadFish wrote:I think Linux should model itself after Windows (without the flaws) just like Ford is like Chevy. It is different, but like it. Linux will not be serious challenge until it realizes that Windows is the standard and Linux needs to meet its rival on its playing field.


Windows compares to Ford in the context that good ol' Henry once said: "You can have a T-Ford in any colour as long as it is back." which I feel sums up the windows philosophy pretty good :)

Fred wrote:Linux is what it is; A better way of computing than some of the other OSs available, in my opinion. For those that wish to learn and use it, I applaud them for their good judgment. For those that are happy with whatever Microsoft dishes out, I wish them well. :-)



Agree'd
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Acid_1 on Thu May 22, 2008 3:03 pm

BadFish wrote:Linux is not Windows but Ford is not Chevy, which is not Dodge, which is not Ferrari which is not Datsun. Yet if I am blindfolded in a Ford, I can probably find the radio, back seat and truck even if I am used to a Dodge I think Linux should model itself after Windows (without the flaws) just like Ford is like Chevy. It is different, but like it. Linux will not be serious challenge until it realizes that Windows is the standard and Linux needs to meet its rival on its playing field.


I understand where you are coming from, and I used to think like that 8 months ago, then 3 months ago, I just decided "screw it all. linux all the way", and all I've used in Linux. As someones signature said earlier "Learning Linux isn't hard. Unlearning Windows is."
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby donec on Thu May 22, 2008 3:35 pm

Maybe some people out there don't remember when Windows was new. But some of us do and we remember the law suits about Look and feel we also remember where the look of Windows comes from. When Xerox showed off it's look and feel others thought it was a good look and feel so they copied it and modified it. There was nothing else but command line. Now we have many options and the ability to customize that goes way beyond that of the Windows look and feel or the Apple look and feel.

People that want their distro to be like Windows or Apple can do so. While others can create a much different look with Linux. With this said I say that if a distro wants to draw people from Windows then the default look that the Windows user is comfortable with would be a good idea. However I don't know uf a single distro that has made it a goal to draw Windows users to their distro. They want more users but they don't care where they come from. Most if not all the distros I have tried have shown they have a common goal with each other and that is to make their distro intuitive and easy to use.

In summery Linux is not Windows as Windows can not do what Linux can do even though in some areas they want to. In Linux a user can make their distro look and feel like Windows they can even run in root and run wine applications that access the web and are full of security holes making their distro just as unsecured as Windows. This is because Linux offers choice while Windows does not.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Calvin on Sat May 24, 2008 10:35 pm

I have to say, when i first read this my eyes were opened so wide vi could see the ends of the Earth. This is an amazing read and everyone using Windows thinking about Linux, or using Linux and want to know more about it should take a look at it.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Elias79 on Mon Jul 21, 2008 3:07 pm

I find this article offensive :(
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby BadFish on Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:45 am

Fred wrote:Windows is a one company, one pony, proprietary mess. There is nothing "standard" about it. It might be your standard but it certainly isn't mine.
Fred

Windows is absolutely the mainstream standard. Come on! My standard is Mint and my iPod Touch for casual browsing/email on the go. There are hundreds of millions of Windows PCs everywhere. I love Linux so much more, but I--and everyone here--are in a tiny minority in the world. Maybe not in geek circles, but in the real world, most people do not even know what it is.

People both fear change and get too lazy to try something new. To get widespread adoption, it will have to be like what most people are used to and most people are used to Windows. Windows had some awesome, revolutionary ideas (10+ years ago) but so many other things wrong. Linux can now take what was good from Windows and combine it with everything about it that is so much better. Look at Mark's comment recently about wanting to make Ubuntu pretty than OSX. I say, "yeah, bring on the fluff and window dressing to gain the masses." Dress it up with eye candy and people will come, they just don't know or care that that beauty is NOT skin deep, Linux is beautiful to the bone with it security and ease of admin. (Which again most will never use or know about.)
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby kondor on Wed Jul 30, 2008 9:35 am

All in a snit for naught! Knickers all in a disarray. We'll let Big Bear answer this nonsense -

http://linuxgeeksunited.blogspot.com/2008/07/exactly-who-is-linux-for.html

We commend Elias79 on his good sense.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby floordog on Sat Aug 16, 2008 5:48 pm

Newbie issues! I'll try to explain. I love the concept of Linux for a much different reason than most. Also I disagree with the posts about how commercial Windows based software companies are exepcted to support their product. lets be frank here. NO WINDOWS OS has EVER worked the way the marketing and sales hypsters proclaim. Plus I have NEVER, ever received tech support from ANY of these people above "level one --ie how to insert a CD". Thats not tech support. What generally happens is after a few tens to hundreds of crashes, Windows users give up, try to uninstall the mess (usually unsuccessfully) and try another program until they find something that actually works "some of the time". Many of the Windows based software companies have NO intention of providing quality stable products. Just look at Microsoft Vista or Windows XP or Mellenium. They are happy to cash your checks, but that is sadly the end of most "tech support".

My problem: I have tried Puppy OS and a few others to get a feel for taking the plunge but they only tease.

I have to list my interest in importance. There is a specific type of software I must have for my personal interests. Unfortunately the windows based software copanies are worse than you could imagine.

Here is a brief description of the application. I need an application that has two parts or will work in separate Client and Server functions. There are over twenty such Win OS applications but they are very clever AND GREEDY. Each one of the programs has a simple function that is missing. For "full" functionality you have to go to the biggest of them , they will give you their "blessings" with essentially similar software, but it is EXTREMELY expensive and restrictive...and thjey want more money--even if they don't do anything. hello? That will be $150 until next month. But...that will be $50 dollars. "I can't afford this" ---YOU owe another $100!

They hate sellng to individuals, won't answer the telephone , no tech support but they will charge you again, just to make it work ON THE SAME COMPUTER. They license "parts" of your computer and relicense parts of YOUR device. Its a big mess. The application refers to megapixel MJPEG video recording from a small high definition camera. Thats it. but most all the functionality of the camera must be licensed AS THEY SEE fit one device at a time. They also require monthly to annual license fees. The solution send them more money. They won't fix their OWN problem, but they will charge you for the "same" install again until they get their money.

The other functions include analog or digital input alarms and a simple network capability for the Server and client to "talk" with each other over a network. I have oversimplified it , but must say SOME OF THIS SOFTWARE IS FREE and does everything you need BUT--- it will only work with THEIR equipment. Get the idea. Its descrimination by who you are, how much money you have, or don't. Even the big companies get squeezed like a grape in their clutches.

Well there is very little of REAL competition amongst the various companies until RECENTLY.

A relatively new company using the same marketing philosophy has come out with a software solution that runs on Ubuntu 8.04! Yes! Its probably restricted somehow? 99% of all users don't even know that the "Box" that controls the cameras is nothing more than a PC. Well surprise! Some of us aren't totally morons..maybe close but not 100%. LOL

One of the BIG issues, is that each camera sends out 35-60 Mb of data per second. Add a few cameras and your PC will look like a welding station. Even the fastest Quad cores run at 110% just to try to keep up with the kludged together software. I ran Microsoft Process Explorer and from the second the recording apps are started, the microprocessor goes into maximum operation. The cameras arent even looking at anything and we have proto-meltdown. And they charge big money for this pos? So one day, I learned that one of the companies designed this software for Linux---Ubuntu 6.06. they can run 32 cameras on an old consumer grade Celeron. This tells me that the software code is probably a bunch of patched and repatched programs from other applicaions--maybe like Windows itself? It like ahouse of cards---burp burp crash. Until the LINUX software came out.

My interest is now peaked, because in MY application, I do not have 600 watts or so just to run a computer which resources are mainly spent to run WInXP. I just downloaded the Ubuntu 8.04 Iso and will be making a live CD. My new problem


Should I start correctly with Ubuntu 8.04 or Mint or another distro. The application is strong on 2 dimensional moving video (jpegs) , recording functions, networking functions, I/O functions, motion detection functions and SMTP functions. Like I say--you can get a win based one for free---but the catch is always there. Each camera is actually a miniature webserver.


I appreciate any comments. I will NOT BE USING any other apps on the PC. It will be low power drain (desktop core 2 duo), stand alone , no monitor , keyboard or mouse except for set up. I might add the LogMein IT PRO server so I can watch how the computer responds under Linux.


ANY comments or help?
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby floordog on Sat Aug 16, 2008 6:22 pm

KEWL it works! I just started up my FIRST Ubuntu "install" actually live cd. Ubuntu Heron.

Now I have to try Mint. Is there a LIVE CD for Mint?

How does one watch news videos or get Youtube to work another newbie question??
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby msuggs on Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:37 pm

floordog wrote:Now I have to try Mint. Is there a LIVE CD for Mint?


The release CD is a live CD just like Ubuntu's

Get it here - http://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

I'd try the Main Edition (revision 1) first :)
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby cnzzhe on Sun Sep 21, 2008 10:56 am

Yes!the linux is for yearns for the freedom and the cooperation peoples!
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Re:

Postby awshidahak on Mon Sep 22, 2008 8:47 am

jbaerbock wrote:Yeah I always did play with legos a lot growing up :D.


but how did you cope with there being no car inside the box. :)
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Jinnai on Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:53 pm

I think some people and to some extent myself, have been that it's not we're expecting Windows, but rather that we're expecting similar programs that should function similarly. Similar does not mean the same, but it does mean nearly the same...and that includes a GUI for every option as well as shortcuts for every option as well (well windows programs don't always have this, but they should...because even if i don't use it someone else might).

That and they want to play their games because having a substitute for that generally is not an option, especially the more complex the game becomes or the more its links to characters and plot rather than game mechanics. While OS software hasn't really done this, other items have had to if they want to become popular. DVD players are one of the best examples. If many of them weren't able to play CDs, most people wouldn't have bought them,

If you want someone to adopt something cold turkey you have to show them how it can do everything they can do now, only better, without losing the investment they've already made. It's why you see so many converters out there for various items. It's called existing investment in infrastructure that is too heavy to completely abandon. This is, FE, what it's like with the US road system in some people's views. That the US has so heavily invested into the current system there is no way to completely abandon it, even within a lifetime. Thus the investment in Windows programs for many may be in a similar nature. Too much of what they rely upon, or want to use is based around that to ever remove itself for many people.

From the way I see it, that's the only real problem with Linux for middle-of-the-road people. Those who know it's different, know in some ways it's fundamentally different, that want to learn the basics of the OS, maybe a bit more, but don't have time to do so quickly or become experts capable of disassembling it and reassembling it at a whim. Also, even if they do, they want to bring certain items with them because they like them too much to just walk away ever, even if they become a full supporter of the new OS.

That however is a problem for any of the OSes out there. Apple would be to closed off to those people, Linux might seem to intimidating needing to basically be the equivalent of relearning how to walk and Windows is not something they like and only feel compelled to use because the other 2 options are just not for them.

EDIT: A sidenote, user friendly also has to do with key placement. FE: KPDF has Ctrl++ and Cntl- to zoom in/out. Intuitive? Yes. Easy to do? not so much. Most keyboards require the use of 2 hands or the use (for a majority of the population) of the dominant hand, taking off, the mouse, which if you have a scroll wheel, is likely what you are using. So yes, it's pretty intuitive (although ++ v. - makes it a little less so), but it's not a very friendly key combination to press.

Not complaining though because other programs i know from Mac and Windows also have insane combinations like that.
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