Linux is Not Windows

Chat about Linux in general

Re: Linux is worse then windows for stability.

Postby lexon on Sat Apr 11, 2009 12:29 pm

ex-windows wrote:When i started using linux i was promised that linux was more stable and was resistant to viruses.
Well thats not true.
On monday 9-3-2009 i got a nice little virus on my linux mint 6 computer. What it does is it opens up thousands of windows in firefox. You cannot close firefox faster then it can reopen it. And it opens up about 1000 copies of firefox with numerous firefox tabs been opened every second.
As it steals the mouse focus, it is impossible to jump to another workstation to fix the problem. When you jump to another workstation, you are immediatley grabbed back by the firefox/virus. I have tools on the bar so that i can shut down applications and processes quickly, yet as the mouse focus is continually stolen, it is impossible to shut down the virus.


I had some thing that sounds the same. I thought it was a virus. Here is what I found out.

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=21828

There are 12 History items kept by default in RichResults. I went somewhere I should not have. Many users are not aware of this issue.

I have beeen using Linux for five years with very few issues.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Fred on Sun Apr 12, 2009 3:15 am

@ Az4x4gNu,

I can certainly concur with your observations Sir.


@ ex-windows

Please re-read A K Dave's and nick's posts. I think that between the two of them, they have hit your problems dead on the money. :-)


@ nick

I wish I could say I never heard of a PDP 11, but the 11 was my first real introduction to computers. I wore out a lot of switches. :-)

I don't mind in the least being younger than you. In fact, it wouldn't bother me if I was 25 and almost everybody was older. :-) However, as I said in another thread somewhere, 1938 was a red letter year for me. By-the-way, I may be catching up with you, as I just had another birthday in early April.

Enjoy life, it is too short to do otherwise. :-)


@ Plain_jim

Well... Let's keep this in perspective. Compared to Windows, at this point in time, for a desktop system on a dhcp connection, Linux is about as safe as it gets. This is not to say that it is not possible to get in trouble by doing dumb things like running in root. You can find ways to give your system away if you work at it, but if you run sane port rules and leave root for essential tasks only, you have little to fear at this point in time. The .desktop extension is probably the biggest hole in the desktop that I am aware of. Having said that, it has not been exploited enough, so far, to get in a lather over. It has the "potential" to be a problem in the future, especially for the user's data, but isn't now.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Acid_1 on Sun Apr 12, 2009 5:34 am

Fred wrote:Shear numbers of users should not be a standard or measure of success.


I'm not disagreeing with you on the rest, but I do believe that shear numbers do constitute having the power of precedence. Think of it this way: The bigger a nations army is, the more power they have.
It's not that the nation is a better nation, just they have the say. It's like that with Windows and such. Now, onto my main post...

Me? I've dabbled with Linux since Ubuntu 5.10. Am I a slave to the Debian & derivatives (DnD)? Yes, but I'm okay with that. Couple of years ago I went straight Ubuntu, and now all I use is Linux, and every once and a while I install Windows to get my Civ4 fix out of my system.

But looking at this post I was still surprised that not only one person said it but several in a couple of different ways, that Linux needs to be like Windows. As a matter of fact, I am finding that too many distro's are trying to be like Windows. (Lindows, then Linspire, PCLOS) and it irritates me, as I use Linux to do what I want, not be stuck with dumbed down applications because people are not willing to use the man pages, thus making me remove software that I don't need, and bogs down the system, (Bluetooth, Tomboy, Gnome-do, etc) especially when I either don't have the hardware for it, and the hardware I do have is limited. Not that this is anyone's fault. I can go to any distro then, but again, I'm a DnD slave. Gah! I'm ranting!

Quit saying Linux needs to be Windows, it doesn't, it's what it is, if you want something like Windows, use Windows. It's there, we don't need it to be, but if you want an open source version of Windows then check out ReactOS

Anyhow, that's my two cents.

Edit:

nick wrote:During this time I can count the number of crashes on one hand, that's correct, propably less than 10 in 10 years...


Got 20 fingers bro?
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby pad-thai on Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:48 am

Fred wrote:
To me, Linux becoming a cheaper, safer, dumbed down, main stream, commercially competitive, mass market, clone of Windows or Mac is an undesirable goal and not something Linux should aspire to.

Fred


On the contrary, I think that's one of the things Linux SHOULD aspire to. By my count, there are around 1000 Linux distros, some of which target niche markets, like math or AV specialists. I see no reason why Linux should not also try to be a windows clone.

To me, the measure of success is serving the masses, rich and poor alike, in a world increasingly run by computers. Microsoft & Co. don't do this. Linux, or BSD, or some UNIX derivative, should. This does not mean Linux can't still be the high tech, geek oriented OS. It can do both.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Kaye on Thu Apr 16, 2009 6:46 pm

pad-thai wrote:On the contrary, I think that's one of the things Linux SHOULD aspire to. By my count, there are around 1000 Linux distros, some of which target niche markets, like math or AV specialists. I see no reason why Linux should not also try to be a windows clone.

To me, the measure of success is serving the masses, rich and poor alike, in a world increasingly run by computers. Microsoft & Co. don't do this. Linux, or BSD, or some UNIX derivative, should. This does not mean Linux can't still be the high tech, geek oriented OS. It can do both.


That seems like a big oversimplification to me.. To say that it can do both implies that there is no tradeoff involved, when there most definitely is. You can't dumb down the system for a normal Windows user while at the same time leaving its power open to the "high tech geeks" who like to have control over their operating system. That's not to say different distros can't be used for different things (which is what I expect you were getting at), but it would really be much better to leave Linux for people who care what they're doing and leave Windows for people who want to browse the internet and create Office documents. There's no reason for someone happy with Windows to come to Linux.

You said that Windows doesn't serve the poor.. people who aren't already familiar with Windows will most likely find a Linux system easier to use than a PC. The only people really affected by the differences are people coming from Windows or Mac, so I think that makes the second point somewhat void.. I just can't see any good reason for Linux to become Windows. Windows can be Windows.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby pad-thai on Sat Apr 18, 2009 2:43 pm

Kaye wrote:That seems like a big oversimplification to me.. To say that it can do both implies that there is no tradeoff involved, when there most definitely is. You can't dumb down the system for a normal Windows user while at the same time leaving its power open to the "high tech geeks" who like to have control over their operating system. That's not to say different distros can't be used for different things (which is what I expect you were getting at), but it would really be much better to leave Linux for people who care what they're doing and leave Windows for people who want to browse the internet and create Office documents. There's no reason for someone happy with Windows to come to Linux.

You said that Windows doesn't serve the poor.. people who aren't already familiar with Windows will most likely find a Linux system easier to use than a PC. The only people really affected by the differences are people coming from Windows or Mac, so I think that makes the second point somewhat void.. I just can't see any good reason for Linux to become Windows. Windows can be Windows.


Windows is insecure. Windows is unstable. Windows wants to sell the latest eye candy, and not the best OS. Linux is just the opposite. As long as there's a profit motive, there's a reason to take short cuts.

I seriously doubt that Windows is any less complex than Linux. An OS is an OS. There are no trade-offs. The only difference is that Microsoft has concentrated on making computers usable for non-technical people, and the Linux community has not.

People die when technology doesn't work. If computing is going to be as important to the world as it seems to be, then I want the world using the best that is available. So far, that's Linux. I think its time that the Linux community get out of the ivory tower, and realize the world is real. They may not have wanted things to end up this way, but they have. Its easier to stay in the tower. But its bull.

I guess you and I will have to respectfully agree to disagree.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby mipcar on Sat Apr 18, 2009 6:01 pm

I work in one of the emergency services. All the electronic case "books" and the computer dispatch data unit we have in our vehicles is Microsoft based.. Not saying they are good, just to highlight how much into everyday life Microsoft stuff is.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby sumit_9 on Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:38 am

Please tell me any good bit torrent client for linux mint? And How can I install it please tell me the complete procedure how to compile it?
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby linuxmeow on Wed Apr 29, 2009 2:46 am

Pointing out about viruses, they can be written for just about any OSes.It's just that Linux and MAC OS X hasn't caught up with a significant market share yet compared to Windows thus hackers still find their efforts less fruitful. No OS is perfect.

I work in one of the emergency services. All the electronic case "books" and the computer dispatch data unit we have in our vehicles is Microsoft based.. Not saying they are good, just to highlight how much into everyday life Microsoft stuff is.

Mychael
I work in one of the emergency services. All the electronic case "books" and the computer dispatch data unit we have in our vehicles is Microsoft based.. Not saying they are good, just to highlight how much into everyday life Microsoft stuff is.

Mychael


Yeah even though they say Linux is stable, I wouldn't risk my business with its complexity. Just yesterday it took me the whole afternoon just to get the whole Linux Mint 6 running. The updates alone took me slightly more than an hour. Tinkering with the settings, installing all the apps.Then again, it's free I can't complain.

Windows is insecure. Windows is unstable. Windows wants to sell the latest eye candy, and not the best OS. Linux is just the opposite. As long as there's a profit motive, there's a reason to take short cuts.

I seriously doubt that Windows is any less complex than Linux. An OS is an OS. There are no trade-offs. The only difference is that Microsoft has concentrated on making computers usable for non-technical people, and the Linux community has not.

People die when technology doesn't work. If computing is going to be as important to the world as it seems to be, then I want the world using the best that is available. So far, that's Linux. I think its time that the Linux community get out of the ivory tower, and realize the world is real. They may not have wanted things to end up this way, but they have. Its easier to stay in the tower. But its bull.

I guess you and I will have to respectfully agree to disagree.


To an average user like me, my ideal OS would be one which is (1)secure/stable background coding, (2)widely used, (3)simple/neat user-interface(GUI), (4)optimized/low resource utilization and (5)pricing.
So far Linux only met with points (1), (4) and (5)

The OS which best fits my needs would probably be the MAC OS X.
Microsoft is indeed heading that direction with Windows 7. I can also see that Linux is also taking the same route but they are still far behind the competition. My biggest headache since I'm still a newbie is to install compressed tarballs .
Will Linux ever have the same simplicity as Windows where you can just double click a downloaded file and the whole thing just installs/uninstall automatically?Drag and drop from a zip file explorer window, click and run?
I tried installing a gpg pass key yesterday for a new depository source, managed to insert the command lines but the whole source list /etc/apt went corrupted.I'm stucked now.Posting this in Windows.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Acid_1 on Wed Apr 29, 2009 3:09 am

linuxmeow wrote:I tried installing a gpg pass key yesterday for a new depository source, managed to insert the command lines but the whole source list /etc/apt went corrupted.I'm stucked now.Posting this in Windows.


Code: Select all
sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list


You could just post asking for one, or look at the release note and then just put them in. It's really easy...

Code: Select all
## -----------------------
## LINUX MINT REPOSITORIES
## -----------------------

## +++ Felicia (Linux Mint 6) +++
deb http://www.linuxmint.com/repository felicia main upstream import
deb http://www.linuxmint.com/repository felicia community
deb http://www.linuxmint.com/repository felicia backport

## +++ Romeo (Linux Mint Unstable) +++
deb http://www.linuxmint.com/repository romeo felicia

## +++ Source Repositories +++
## deb-src http://www.linuxmint.com/repository felicia main upstream import
## deb-src http://www.linuxmint.com/repository felicia community
## deb-src http://www.linuxmint.com/repository felicia backport
## deb-src http://www.linuxmint.com/repository romeo felicia

## -------------------
## UBUNTU REPOSITORIES
## -------------------

## +++ Intrepid (Ubuntu 8.10) +++
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-updates main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jaunty main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jaunty-updates main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jaunty-security main restricted universe multiverse


## +++ Backports & Proposed (Ubuntu Unstable) +++
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-backports main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-proposed main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jaunty-backports main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jaunty-proposed main restricted universe multiverse

## +++ Source Repositories +++
#deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid main restricted universe multiverse
#deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-updates main restricted universe multiverse
#deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security main restricted universe multiverse
#deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-backports main restricted universe multiverse
#deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jaunty main restricted universe multiverse
#deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jaunty-updates main restricted universe multiverse
#deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jaunty-security main restricted universe multiverse
#deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu jaunty-backports main restricted universe multiverse

## ------------------
## OTHER REPOSITORIES
## ------------------

## +++ Canonical +++
deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu intrepid partner
deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu jaunty partner

## +++ Medibuntu +++
#deb http://packages.medibuntu.org/ intrepid free non-free
#deb http://packages.medibuntu.org/ jaunty free non-free
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby iironjade on Tue May 12, 2009 5:58 am

sumit_9 wrote:Please tell me any good bit torrent client for linux mint? And How can I install it please tell me the complete procedure how to compile it?


You can install Deluge, Transmission or KTorrent via Mint's software portal or via Synaptic: you don't need to compile anything.
uTorrent and Shareaza can also be installed with Wine although Shareaza is a bit unpredictable on Linux machines. :)
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby fearedbliss on Sun May 31, 2009 5:49 pm

Awesome article. I read the whole thing.

It's funny because it brings back memories of me me coming from Windows to Linux.

I use to say all the time "Linux isn't ready for the desktop" and "If I couldn't figure it out then no other normal user can either".

The thing was I'm not a "normal user", I'm a "power user" and the part explained a lot to me. It made me realize that a lot of things I use to say like
"Windows is just copying Mac or Linux" (Well that could be debatable :) ), is purely wrong and arrogant of me.

Anyways awesome article as I said before. I hope a lot of people get to read that.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby dlkreations on Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:09 pm

I have to say that I made the mistake of trying Windows 7 on my laptop today...

Bottom line? No, Linux is not Windows. It is much better, more customizable, and better in every way.

I am very sorry I wiped my drive to once again try a new monster to come out of Redmond. More or less like a Frankenstein really. What a nightmare. After using Linux for so long, I felt out of place using Windows. Granted I have to use Windows at work, but the freedom that comes from using Linux on my personal machine is so refreshing and fun.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby lexon on Mon Jun 01, 2009 8:32 pm

I recently received a new Acer Aspire 5515 wireless laptop with Vista Basic. $325, free shipping.. A exact replacement drive arrived today and I installed Mint 7 Maine Edition it. I do not dual boot. If I have to ever sell the PC, it will have a Vista OS with it. Besides, I will have an extra drive. My Way. Mint is a lot easier to use than Vista Basic. Actually, I have not used a Windows PC in nearly five years. Mint boots much faster also.
The Linux is not Windows post is nice but most of you know that many people jump into a forum and never read FAQ, Read It Now, Look Here First, etc. The challenge is to get people, mostly males who do this, to read the important stuff first.

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby Zwopper on Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:18 am

dlkreations wrote: Granted I have to use Windows at work...>>>SNIP<<<

That is a shame, at my office we can use whatever hardware, software and OS we want,
since our common resources are available through Citrix access,
now THAT is an uncommon philosophy, but a GREAT one!
Keep pushing and maybe they'll let you use Linux as a host and windows as a guest OS in virtualbox or something,
then maybe you can slide over to Linux all together, without anyone noticing! ;) 8)
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby mipcar on Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:56 am

I did notice that the huge Harvey Norman super stores were selling those small notepad/laptop things loaded with a Linux O/S.. The first early signs of a change in the tide perhaps??

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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby denyu on Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:16 pm

Mint assumes that a new user has had the good sense to read the manual and the release notes. Rightly so, in my opinion. It does not insult a new user by assuming that s/he skipped all the documentation and rushed to install right away. Anyone who would do that - even if they are not a newbie - is a pea-wit!
It's kind of stupid but I do that :wink: (skipping documentation), but at least I try the Live CD first, and I see all of my hardware working well, so I wipe out my previous OS and installed mint on it. To speak frankly, few years ago I installed Linux but last time I don't have any good internet connection and it seems Linux are very depending on it's repro's ( CMIIW ) any many things have to be downloaded to work on your system.
I am an end user, I want my computer helping me to do my job, instead of me spending time to fine tuning, learning more difficult things. All I just want OS that work out of the box straightly. People like me usually willing to pay what Ms offered.
But my experience with Mint is what I felt when using MS and I hope will be a lot better ~
It's a lot of easier and user friendly even if compared to Ubuntu actually many of my friend suggested it, I don't interested after tries It's live CD ( sorry ). It's been three days I am fully using this OS on my computer at home. I think first impression count a lot !!!
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby denyu on Tue Jun 02, 2009 2:32 pm

Acid_1 wrote:
Fred wrote:Shear numbers of users should not be a standard or measure of success.


I'm not disagreeing with you on the rest, but I do believe that shear numbers do constitute having the power of precedence. Think of it this way: The bigger a nations army is, the more power they have.
It's not that the nation is a better nation, just they have the say. It's like that with Windows and such. Now, onto my main post...

Me? I've dabbled with Linux since Ubuntu 5.10. Am I a slave to the Debian & derivatives (DnD)? Yes, but I'm okay with that. Couple of years ago I went straight Ubuntu, and now all I use is Linux, and every once and a while I install Windows to get my Civ4 fix out of my system.

But looking at this post I was still surprised that not only one person said it but several in a couple of different ways, that Linux needs to be like Windows. As a matter of fact, I am finding that too many distro's are trying to be like Windows. (Lindows, then Linspire, PCLOS) and it irritates me, as I use Linux to do what I want, not be stuck with dumbed down applications because people are not willing to use the man pages, thus making me remove software that I don't need, and bogs down the system, (Bluetooth, Tomboy, Gnome-do, etc) especially when I either don't have the hardware for it, and the hardware I do have is limited. Not that this is anyone's fault. I can go to any distro then, but again, I'm a DnD slave. Gah! I'm ranting!

Quit saying Linux needs to be Windows, it doesn't, it's what it is, if you want something like Windows, use Windows. It's there, we don't need it to be, but if you want an open source version of Windows then check out ReactOS

Anyhow, that's my two cents.

Edit:

nick wrote:During this time I can count the number of crashes on one hand, that's correct, propably less than 10 in 10 years...


Got 20 fingers bro?


I believed not Linux to be more windows but Linux have to be more user friendly. Computer these days not used only by computer programmer or computer scientist, even my mom use PC for daily use. I like Linux and where it's heading for but remember this, many people want a simple way, OS that work and help for their daily activity. Do MacOS have to be MS ??? I don't think so and they doing great so far . Technology what ever it is ( Free / Not Free / Open Source ) should be helping us work effeciently does it ?
This for my point of view dough, but for others who would join the community of open source and developed this is a challenge to help people like me to used computer more helpfull I really appreciate that.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby j_dolu on Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:02 am

Ms Windows user who want to try Linux, always think Linux same as Ms Windows for the first time they use it.
This is a good article.
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Re: Linux is Not Windows

Postby petronius on Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:08 pm

Very nice and informative. As a windows user it can sometimes be difficult to get over the not-so-subtle differences of Linux.

However; I found the argument for Linux being easier to copy text than Windows to be ridiculous. Why? Because if you look in parentheses he says "No using the mouse!". That is silly. I'm going to use the easiest, fastest way possible to copy text, be it the KB or the Mouse. His argument was a poor one in that regard.

Other than that, it was a great article! :D

Ciao
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