Why Linux will never be a viable alternative to microsoft

[mzsade]

Let me guess, you also like Friends, Teen Wolf, Smallville and How I Met Your Mother, but Luther, Curb your Enthusiasm, Injustice and My Family leave you cold.

[jenn67]

Again you show your lack of knowledge, reverse engineering is illegal. Companies who believe in IP as Microsoft do, consider that a VERY serious offense, and WILL send the team of high paid lawyers out over it, even when it's not happening. By the laws of every country on the planet, specially the US, reverse engineering will get you a seriously large legal bill. Someone reverse engineered Skype and put it out on some sites. Nobody can legally use it, or distribute it because it's been reverse engineered.

Awhww ! look at the du gooder. would you have a problem with that? really? do you make sure your toilet paper is 100%recycled? No seal products used n all that jazz? C'mon now Mr Thistle. Ofcourse its illegal if people know about it. But I guess deep down that would really bother you huh?

[ThistleWeb]

Your unwillingness to see what xp can add to and enhance linux speaks volumes.

Aww now that's not fair, XP has done one tremendous thing for Linux, it's a shining beacon of examples on how NOT to do things. For that, I thank Microsoft for their XP, and congratulate them on taking 10 years to make it half ways stable.

On a similar note, it's worth thanking companies like Microsoft for pointing out loopholes in bribery and corruption laws, all we have to do is study the loopholes these companies use themselves.

Way to not address yourself Mr Thistle ! Dude you should run for office in Glasgow. I would vote for you. Your super talented at deflection.

As I've already pointed out multiple times, the features you suggest are not features, they are flaws. I've also explained why they are flaws. Others have tried to explain too. What definition of "deflection" are you using? You accuse others of not responding to your points, have you looked in the mirror? Give us some positive features XP has that could benefit Linux and they'd be considered. Over 6 pages you've still not done that.

[TBABill]

Reported. This thread should just be removed in its entirety. The OP is obviously just fanning the fire and has sunken to unacceptable lows at this point.

[mzsade]

Awhww ! look at the du gooder. would you have a problem with that? really? do you make sure your toilet paper is 100%recycled? No seal products used n all that jazz? C'mon now Mr Thistle. Ofcourse its illegal if people know about it. But I guess deep down that would really bother you huh?[/quote]

I am sure now, this is a child raised by wolves...

[Fandangio]

Awhww ! look at the du gooder. would you have a problem with that? really? do you make sure your toilet paper is 100%recycled? No seal products used n all that jazz? C'mon now Mr Thistle. Ofcourse its illegal if people know about it. But I guess deep down that would really bother you huh?

I am sure now, this is a child raised by wolves...[/quote]

Nope, wolves are more intelligent and subtle...

[linuxviolin]

You're obviously a child. Or you are at best an adolescent adult.

Hmm, you too, be careful, this could be perceived as an insult by a certain person in this forum... A person who says things like:

Seriously, this is a classic example of age bias (...) an insult in my opinion.

[ThistleWeb]

Again you show your lack of knowledge, reverse engineering is illegal. Companies who believe in IP as Microsoft do, consider that a VERY serious offense, and WILL send the team of high paid lawyers out over it, even when it's not happening. By the laws of every country on the planet, specially the US, reverse engineering will get you a seriously large legal bill. Someone reverse engineered Skype and put it out on some sites. Nobody can legally use it, or distribute it because it's been reverse engineered.

Awhww ! look at the du gooder. would you have a problem with that? really? do you make sure your toilet paper is 100%recycled? No seal products used n all that jazz? C'mon now Mr Thistle. Ofcourse its illegal if people know about it. But I guess deep down that would really bother you huh?

It's one thing to break the law as an individual and running the risk that nobody would notice. It's something else for a project to do it. No company would do it knowing they were breaking the law, the lawyers turning up would bankrupt them and put them all out of work and into serious debt. Why would anyone responsible risk that?

Mint has US & Japan install CDs with the codecs missing, so it can be legally distributed in the US and Japan. If people in the US and Japan download the regular one knowing it's not legal in their country, that's their own risk.

Ubuntu run that tight rope, on one hand they want to be able to have users able to play mp3, DVD's etc out of the box, on the other Canonical want to be able to do business in the US, get contracts with US companies. For that, any suggestion that Ubuntu doesn't respect IP will be a deal killer before it even starts.

If you have something reverse engineered in your distro, even as a downloadable app from the repo, that's the message you send "we as a distro / organization / company don't respect IP". That's fine if you want to play into the propaganda spewed out by Microsoft and others that Linux is fulla IP thieves who happily distribute illegal software.

We don't. We stay legal.

[ThistleWeb]

If Mint included reverse engineered software, Clem or any of the other developers could easily face arrest if the go to the US on holiday, met at the airport and removed from the plane before anyone else. Some of the devs are based in America, they also face arrest. The IP proponents love to exaggerate the value of damages too.

We live in an era where ICE seize websites with no legal jurisdiction, no legal recourse, just the say so of someone in Hollywood. We live in an era where people are extradited to the US over COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT allegations to face CRIMINAL charges with jail time. We live in an era of patent shakedowns by companies who spend more on lobbyists and lawyers than people who actually create stuff.

I have a LOT of issues with the whole IP thing, but I'd never be so irresponsible as to endanger OTHER people's lives and liberty just by including a program I know to be illegal in my distro.

[jenn67]

[/quote]

As I've already pointed out multiple times, the features you suggest are not features, they are flaws. I've also explained why they are flaws. Others have tried to explain too. What definition of "deflection" are you using? You accuse others of not responding to your points, have you looked in the mirror? Give us some positive features XP has that could benefit Linux and they'd be considered. Over 6 pages you've still not done that.[/quote]

Ok well not that you don't already know, I will state the beneficial features once again that certainly have not been challenged on the basis of simplicity. (which is most important to the masses not nerds)

1 Simple installation without the need even have the word bootswap in your vocab. XP does this but can be improved sure.

2 one click on your icon to begin the installation of downloads instead of having to go through a 3rd party program. XP does this as well but if that is less secure then improve the design to be more secure. Don't completely dismiss the simplicity.

3 Give mass converts a clear direction to go by having one website for this new type OS. Microsoft does this and guess what ? they still got the world.

4 simpler less busy menus. Mass users can't be bothered with all these features, they just want to get on with it. XP does this best of all.

So go ahead Mr Thistle and completely ignore all that by suggesting linux does it all better even though your logic does not supersede common sense.

[sjonesy]

You know there is nothing wrong with reverse engineering a winning component from XP and improving the design to incorporate into linux and make it more , simple, secure and even faster.



But no. Nobody is willing to consider anything even remotely microsoft because that would bring independent George and relationship George together and the two worlds would collide and chaos would ensue !



Ok ya I'm a Seinfeld freak.

Dogs and cats sleeping together,,,who knew?

really? sounds like copyright infringement to me, thats why software companies have legal departments.

but you and others here don't want linux to go mainstream cause the would destroy your little linux jerkcircle where only you guys get your own jokes and you laugh at the public for not knowing sudo commands

Hmm, maybe in your case all your texting facebook-drama-queen friends can have a dildo circle and talk about why the two year old Windows machine crapped out on the last security update, or the last virus definition update as well, in the meantime, linux will keep going as always, while computer makers will continue to pay exorbitant fees to microsuck just to run the latest bloatware. Dunno about you, but I never enjoyed waiting for Windows to boot for 5 minutes while I went and made breakfast and coffee, so it could load piles of crap programs in the background.
Tell me when was the last time you actually laid eyes on an installation disk for windows? They dont ship them anymore, instead, they give you access to a partition on your drive that you hope will fix things if and when they break.
Linux is about choices, ms is more about mass marketing crapware to the masses.

[ThistleWeb]

1 Simple installation without the need even have the word bootswap in your vocab. XP does this but can be improved sure.

Regular users don't install any OS, they don't install Windows, they don't install Linux. The OS is installed by someone around them with technical knowledge. Someone with that knowledge knows what a bootloader is, just because Windows chooses to hide it, does not mean it's not there.

2 one click on your icon to begin the installation of downloads instead of having to go through a 3rd party program. XP does this as well but if that is less secure then improve the design to be more secure. Don't completely dismiss the simplicity.

Linux uses a package management system for security, it's like a warehouse manager, only one app can install or remove stuff at one time. This avoids the situation of one app installing something the others don't know about. Everything in Linux is 3rd party, the Linux way is "do one thing and do it well". Gdebi fits this. Firefox is 3rd party, everything in Linux is. Almost everything in Windows is too, apart from the Microsoft stuff. If you want consistency, what's better? The same app opening no matter what you install? or the applications own installer which is different from most of the others?

3 Give mass converts a clear direction to go by having one website for this new type OS. Microsoft does this and guess what ? they still got the world.

Microsoft have their own Microsoft.com but it's not a panacea of all knowledge. There's a lot there, but there are plenty of 3rd party sites that also offer tips, tricks, tweaks, plenty of whom Microsoft wouldn't authorize. Keep in mind Microsoft are a HUGE corporation with a budget to put whole teams of people full time on documentation.

4 simpler less busy menus. Mass users can't be bothered with all these features, they just want to get on with it. XP does this best of all.

This is hilarious. Windows STILL hasn't figured out how to automatically categorize new installed applications, they STILL just throw it onto the end of the menu, making it more and more cluttered than it was on first boot. This is because Microsoft don't package the exe installer, they leave those to the creators of the app, who can do whatever they want.

When an app is packaged for a distro and put in the repos, the maintainers know for example "we use Network for internet tools, so this is a web browser, it's an internet tool, I'll make sure it goes into the Network category".

So go ahead Mr Thistle and completely ignore all that by suggesting linux does it all better even though your logic does not supersede common sense.

[TBABill]

1 Simple installation without the need even have the word bootswap in your vocab. XP does this but can be improved sure.

Bootswap? Not sure what that is but you may mean bootloader? If so, even your bios has one. If you only install one OS you don't even need to care what it is. XP's bootloader sure doesn't care about your Linux partitions so having Linux load with Grub or Grub2, which DOES care about your Windows partition, automatically is a win for Linux. Difficult? Maybe. But at least it CAN do the job. You're argument is flawed. One OS, one bootloader, both as easy as the other. Multi OS's, only one bootloader does that job well and it belongs to Linux, not Windows XP.

2 one click on your icon to begin the installation of downloads instead of having to go through a 3rd party program. XP does this as well but if that is less secure then improve the design to be more secure. Don't completely dismiss the simplicity.

When you click that "icon" it doesn't just install. It OPENS Windows Software Manager (think that's the name, not positive) and that guides you through the install and makes it available to uninstall via control center. So by comparison, in Linux you download, right click to open with gdebi and install. Why is XP so much easier in your mind?

3 Give mass converts a clear direction to go by having one website for this new type OS. Microsoft does this and guess what ? they still got the world.

One website for over 600 Linux distros? Microsoft is the owner of all their versions of Windows so it's a no-brainer, but how would you propose this happen and who would manage and own it? Not impossible, but there has to be a structure to do so, maintain it and keep up with all the differences and make them clear to new users. Looks like a mountain to climb when right now each maintains its own info, some much superior to others, and sites like Debian's wiki could be an example of how to do it right.

4 simpler less busy menus. Mass users can't be bothered with all these features, they just want to get on with it. XP does this best of all.

Linux menus are already uncluttered. Gnome and Xfce are pretty sparse in the number of levels to them and they're actually designed to be intuitive by separate apps into categories to make it easier to find than looking for a camera program and having to know to look in the "Canon" folder under the general "Programs" button in XP. I'd say LXDE probably does it better than XP by far, followed by Xfce and then Gnome. KDE...well, depends on which menu system is in use.

So go ahead Mr Thistle and completely ignore all that by suggesting linux does it all better even though your logic does not supersede common sense.

I don't think ThistleWeb is ignoring your suggestions, but rather has rebutted them sufficiently to make them moot. If they were truly inspiring suggestions that could improve the OS, many users would be applauding your messages and giving the ol' "+1" in support. Plenty of those already on the forum if you look. But, as stated earlier, your method has destroyed your message.

[jenn67]

You know there is nothing wrong with reverse engineering a winning component from XP and improving the design to incorporate into linux and make it more , simple, secure and even faster.



But no. Nobody is willing to consider anything even remotely microsoft because that would bring independent George and relationship George together and the two worlds would collide and chaos would ensue !



Ok ya I'm a Seinfeld freak.

Dogs and cats sleeping together,,,who knew?

really? sounds like copyright infringement to me, thats why software companies have legal departments.

but you and others here don't want linux to go mainstream cause the would destroy your little linux jerkcircle where only you guys get your own jokes and you laugh at the public for not knowing sudo commands

Hmm, maybe in your case all your texting facebook-drama-queen friends can have a dildo circle and talk about why the two year old Windows machine crapped out on the last security update, or the last virus definition update as well, in the meantime, linux will keep going as always, while computer makers will continue to pay exorbitant fees to microsuck just to run the latest bloatware. Dunno about you, but I never enjoyed waiting for Windows to boot for 5 minutes while I went and made breakfast and coffee, so it could load piles of **** programs in the background.
Tell me when was the last time you actually laid eyes on an installation disk for windows? They dont ship them anymore, instead, they give you access to a partition on your drive that you hope will fix things if and when they break.
Linux is about choices, ms is more about mass marketing crapware to the masses.

I totaly agree. Bloatware sucks. but that isn't exactly my point. There is no bloat with a fresh copy of xp. which you can easily download illegaly now for free. Opps I've said too much Thistle is having a heart attack.

Illegal downloads are bad kids, and don't do it cause it really bothers Mr thistle and microsoft.

[ThistleWeb]

I totaly agree. Bloatware sucks. but that isn't exactly my point. There is no bloat with a fresh copy of xp. which you can easily download illegaly now for free. Opps I've said too much Thistle is having a heart attack.

Illegal downloads are bad kids, and don't do it cause it really bothers Mr thistle and microsoft.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest what you do, if you wanna break the law, then go for it. I could point out the obvious that an illegal copy of Windows has likely been altered to include malware, although not always. You could get lucky.

As I said, there's a vast difference between an individual doing that and risking their own futures, and an organization doing it, and risking their users futures. People download and use Linux because the believe it's fully legal. They put their faith in the fact that they're not breaking any laws by using it. If we include illegal stuff there, we make them break the law without their consent. If we tell them we've included illegal stuff (in EVERY legal jurisdiction on the planet) then we draw the lawyers and it'll be used as evidence of illegality.

[mzsade]

Er..all this doesn't quite reflect very well on us, seems as if we were ganging up on a hapless female (delectable as that idea may seem :kidding: ), and what a joke it would be on us if this troll was not even that and maybe a hermaphrodite prankster posing as one in order to be taken seriously or get some attention.

[jenn67]

One OS, one bootloader, both as easy as the other. Multi OS's, only one bootloader does that job well and it belongs to Linux, not Windows XP.

When you click that "icon" it doesn't just install. It OPENS Windows Software Manager (think that's the name, not positive) and that guides you through the install and makes it available to uninstall via control center. So by comparison, in Linux you download, right click to open with gdebi and install. Why is XP so much easier in your mind?

One website for over 600 Linux distros? Microsoft is the owner of all their versions of Windows so it's a no-brainer, but how would you propose this happen and who would manage and own it? Not impossible, but there has to be a structure to do so, maintain it and keep up with all the differences and make them clear to new users. Looks like a mountain to climb when right now each maintains its own info, some much superior to others, and sites like Debian's wiki could be an example of how to do it right.

Linux menus are already uncluttered. Gnome and Xfce are pretty sparse in the number of levels to them and they're actually designed to be intuitive by separate apps into categories to make it easier to find than looking for a camera program and having to know to look in the "Canon" folder under the general "Programs" button in XP. I'd say LXDE probably does it better than XP by far, followed by Xfce and then Gnome. KDE...well, depends on which menu system is in use.

Clearly you do not understand the underlying issue here. Installing linux when there is another OS present requires you to understand and tamper with creating swap partitions and understand why there can't be a simple install to partition of your choice without the linux lessons. XP IS CLEAR.

Every linux distro I have ever used has never had a right click menu install method you speak of. If it is there I should not have to go into settings and enable it. I am a huge fan of right click menus by the way and think this is one of the best features of a good OS. Apple failed miserably with that as you had to enable it.

One website for common linux won't happen for a long time but it will happen. The top distros would have to get together or something new and powerful like my idea for linux reform (Linsoft) to take over all other distros in market share (which would happen by the way if they created it which is what scares linuxites).

Only a true linuxite would suggest linux menus are uncluttered. and the fact the you have to mention other sub distros KDE, GNOME, XFCE, etc already underscores my point that the average user is not concerned with "versions" but just wants a clear winner.

You and Thistle fail to rebuke my points because you do not share the same mentality as the average user.

Linux will not go mainstream until they stop listening to theyre fan base of Sudo lovers and start listening to what everyday people want.

[wyrdoak]

M$ would just love that proof of reverse engineering, that way Linux would belong to them and could be locked in a drawer in M$ land forever.

Then everyone could run the same software.

[Fandangio]

Maybe you're missing your true vocation in life.

Why not take the best bits from Linux and go work for Microsoft and get them to make the best OS on the planet. With your vision of the perfect OS they would be mad not to employ you. You could literally name your price with the formula you expouse!

I say go for it

[ThistleWeb]

This is totally pointless. We've rebutted EVERY suggestion you've made multiple times. We've even offered to do a sum up in case they get lost in the conversation. TWO of us rebutt your points one by one, and you STILL claim we don't rebut them. This is seriously pathetic. I'd echo whoever reported this thread to the mods to just kill it, all it's doing is sapping our time and patience. I've reported my own post here to draw the mods attention, just in case the previous people who suggested doing it didn't actually do it.