GNOME 3 by Linus Torvalds

[zerozero]

i'm not getting involved in which is better and why and if xfce now is the thing because Linus talked about it;

i'm just coming in to say that in fedora-land someone is already preparing a gnome2-fork http://k3rnel.net/2011/05/26/project-bluebubble/ - i haven't tried it (might do) but looks promising.

[linuxviolin]

i'm just coming in to say that in fedora-land someone is already preparing a gnome2-fork http://k3rnel.net/2011/05/26/project-bluebubble/ - i haven't tried it (might do) but looks promising.

I know this, yes. Apparently the revolt against GNOME 3 rumbles on, is running and activates... But I'm not sure on these projects be really and truly embraced by many people and/or distros, neither being really long-lasting.

[zerozero]

i share your concerns about these forks (see what happened what trinity): i believe that at some point is just plain impossible to try to freeze the past, and in this particular case all the applications are moving on to the new reality.

Is there anyone with enough manpower to backport, maintain, and assist in bug reports: evolution, nautilus, the whole gnome-panel (a monster in itself), and all the others applications that make the gnome2.x experience what it is.

[tdockery97]

In my opinion a Gnome 2 fork is doomed before it starts, especially if only one individual is trying to maintain it. I honestly think it is time to either embrace and get used to Gnome 3, or choose another desktop environment. I've chosen the latter, but that's just me.

[linuxviolin]

Yes, I am quite skeptical...

Besides the link given by MALsPa above, here is the guy from who started Mate: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=121162 (Arch Forum)

[MALsPa]

Yes, I am quite skeptical...

Me, too.

[Imhoteps]

That is what exactly Linus said:

"Linus Torvalds - +Cyrill Gorcunov: it's not that I have rendering problems with gnome3 (although I do have those too), it's that the user experience of Gnome3 even without rendering problems is unacceptable.

Why can't I have shortcuts on my desktop? Why can't I have the expose functionality? Wobbly windows? Why does anybody sane think that it's a good idea to have that "go to the crazy 'activities'" menu mode?

I used to be upset when gnome developers decided it was "too complicated" for the user to remap some mouse buttons. In gnome3, the developers have apparently decided that it's "too complicated" to actually do real work on your desktop, and have decided to make it really annoying to do.

Here's an example of "the crazy": you want a new terminal window. So you go to "activities" and press the "terminal" thing that you've made part of your normal desktop thing (but why can't I just have it on the desktop, instead of in that insane "activities" mode?). What happens? Nothing. It brings your existing terminal to the forefront.

That's just crazy crap. Now I need to use Shift-Control-N in an old terminal to bring up a new one. Yeah, that's a real user experience improvement. Sure.

I'm sure there are other ways, but that's just an example of the kind of "head up the arse" behavior of gnome3. Seriously. I have been asking other developers about gnome3, they all think it's crazy.

I'm using Xfce. I think it's a step down from gnome2, but it's a huge step up from gnome3. Really."

https://plus.google.com/106327083461132 ... bnL3KaVRtM

[linuxviolin]

Imhoteps, you are very late. I have already quoted all of this in the first page of this topic, at the beginning...

[lvxferre]

i share your concerns about these forks (see what happened what trinity): i believe that at some point is just plain impossible to try to freeze the past, and in this particular case all the applications are moving on to the new reality.

Is there anyone with enough manpower to backport, maintain, and assist in bug reports: evolution, nautilus, the whole gnome-panel (a monster in itself), and all the others applications that make the gnome2.x experience what it is.

Agreed. IMO these folks should instead support Xfce. Extending it, making it easier to configure... this kind of thing. Making one looks into KDE 3 or GNOME 2 and saying "hey, I can tune and customise Xfce to look like my old DE was!". It's possible to do it while maintaining Xfce greater strenght - it's light, it's fast.

[hr]

And about Torvalds: he's a kernel dev, not interface. But it's a heavy user, and he got the same feeling a lot of us got too: Linux interfaces are changing in a way we don't like.
But new alternatives must be tried, so IMO it's unfair just blame KDE, GNOME and Unity Dev Teams for making bold changes.

[zerozero]

i share your concerns about these forks (see what happened what trinity): i believe that at some point is just plain impossible to try to freeze the past, and in this particular case all the applications are moving on to the new reality.

Is there anyone with enough manpower to backport, maintain, and assist in bug reports: evolution, nautilus, the whole gnome-panel (a monster in itself), and all the others applications that make the gnome2.x experience what it is.

Agreed. IMO these folks should instead support Xfce. Extending it, making it easier to configure... this kind of thing. Making one looks into KDE 3 or GNOME 2 and saying "hey, I can tune and customise Xfce to look like my old DE was!". It's possible to do it while maintaining Xfce greater strenght - it's light, it's fast.

[hr]

And about Torvalds: he's a kernel dev, not interface. But it's a heavy user, and he got the same feeling a lot of us got too: Linux interfaces are changing in a way we don't like.
But new alternatives must be tried, so IMO it's unfair just blame KDE, GNOME and Unity Dev Teams for making bold changes.

two months after that comment, maybe Clem will prove me wrong

Linux Mint 12 “Lisa” will be released in November this year with continued support for Gnome 2 but also with the introduction of Gnome 3. The radical changes introduced by the Gnome project split the community. At the time of releasing Linux Mint 11 we decided it was too early to adopt Gnome 3. This time around, the decision isn’t as simple. Gnome 3.2 is more mature and we can see the potential of this new desktop and use it to implement something that can look and behave better than anything based on Gnome 2. Of course, we’re starting from scratch and this process will take time and span across multiple releases. Until then, it’s important we continue to support the traditional Gnome 2 desktop. We’re likely to release two separate editions, one for Gnome 2.32 and one for Gnome 3.2. We’re also working in cooperation with the MATE project (which is a fork of Gnome 2) at the moment to see if we can make both desktops compatible in an effort to let you run both Gnome 2 (or MATE) and Gnome 3 on the same system, either in Linux Mint 12, or for the future.

http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1845

[linuxviolin]

But new alternatives must be tried

Why?

[monkeyboy]

But new alternatives must be tried

Why?

Simply because the developers wanted to, they do the work they make the calls. Linux is about freedom of choice and that freedom must extent to the developers. When we users release our DE we will get to make the choices we want. So if there is something about someones else's DE we don't like we can vote with or feet, adapt or endlessly whine about reality. IMO

[linuxviolin]

Simply because the developers wanted to

This is precisely the problem...

And lvxferre said: "must be tried", "must"... You could perhaps say "could/can be tried" if you want, maybe, but "must"...

[lvxferre]

But new alternatives must be tried

Why?

They bring innovation. Sometimes, even if we don't like the final result, some branch of a software development can bring things we want, and I really hope that GNOME 3 bring useful things to other DEs too.

Also, monkeyboy is right - freedom for the devs, too.

[linuxviolin]

They bring innovation.

I really hope that GNOME 3 bring useful things to other DEs too.

Protect us.

freedom for the devs, too.

Freedom to make maintenance work rather perpetually play with new and buggy, even useless, toys, freedom not to make something crappy and that people hate etc Yes, they are free to do anything...

[monkeyboy]

Producing something of worth takes effort, fault finding and carping is easy. The question is what is the relative value of each?