Mepis vs Mint Debian

[Nick_Djinn]

So, I am doing a little comparison right now as I am unhappy with the direction of Ubuntu. Ubuntu is buggy. I preferred Mint main to everything else UNTIL Mint 11 turned out to be as Buggy as the rest of them. I blame the parent distro, but still.....besides the kernel problems, Gnome and the applets kept crashing. It was unstable and froze. It was not ready for prime time. Probably still isnt, but I wouldnt know because Im not doing any more installs.


Ive been playing with LMDE....and honestly, its smooth but bare. Moderately snappy, but not exceptionally so for being so bare bones. The lack of an EASY and automatic driver installer, and the moderately difficult distro installer (not difficult for me, but for noobs), make this distro not really a good suggestion for noobs. I dont see it as a replacement for the Main edition for a long time.

Getting a better installer, a driver installer (like Mepis has), adding some repositories so its not just FOSS but all the goodies and niceties that Mint has been known for.....This distro could have potential, but the front end makeover on a bare bones Debian main isnt going to cut it for a lot of non-geeks. The difficulty of installing Nvidia and ATI drivers, while doable, will be a deal breaker for the bottom 50th percentile or more.


I was playing with Liquid Lemur.....Not as polished or nice looking. Looks more like a hack of a hack based on Crunchbang. The text based autoinstallers, based on Crunchbang, are actually quite functional. I wouldnt object to seeing these tools ported to LMDE....There are a lot more repos so there is a richer variety of software. It comes with XFCE 4.8 which is a decent Gnome alternative now, but I installed Gnome and customized it to my liking.....they even added Mint Menu and Mint tools, which make this distro nice after you invest some time into it, but it really guides you and holds your hand even though the text prompts look less professional....they work. I think 1.0 will be a competitor.


So I tried one I havnt tried in years......SimplyMepis. Wow. I was impressed. It felt snappier than LMDE despite using KDE. Its Debian instead of Ubuntu, but is compatible with Ubuntu repositories. It automatically installed Nvidia drivers. The installation was a piece of cake with a really really easy to use "auto install on entire disk" option that is missing in LMDE. I looked at the repos, which were richer than LMDE. I installed LMMS right away.....Really makes LMDE feel like a work in progress. For people looking for a debian based alternative to Ubuntu that still can use either Debian or Ubuntu repositories, this felt like the best out there.....to bad it has a crappy name and isnt that popular. This one is ready for prime time as an Ubuntu replacement, and has all the good codecs out of the box.


In my opinion, Mint could make something really cool using some of these existing tools.....The Crunchbang and Lemur tools look like hacks, not as elegant as LMDEs look, but they still work to make it a lot easier for noobs. At least there is a graphical or Y/N way of installing drivers and repos. They even have multi-media and hacking/security apps and repos that are not even present in Ubuntu or regular Mint......Also, Anti-X with Gnome installed and Mint Menu would possibly be more usable and polished out of the box than using straight debian. Just my opinion.


I think the mint team could end up making LMDE really cool, but some tools from these other distros would have to be ported or something similar written up. I dont think the makeover and Mint tools are enough YET to make this a replacement for the Main distro. I dont think it competes yet with a more seasoned distro like Mepis.

I havnt seen any bugs yet, but if I find any and change my mind I will report back.

[Oscar799]

Moved here from LMDE

[Robin]

I haven't tried Mepis since 8.0. Enough to know that I didn't care much for KDE, and it was slow to run on this old hand-me-down hardware.

AntiX is Debian Testing rather than Debian Stable as Mepis is. When Mint 9 Xfce /Xubuntu 10.04 reaches end-of life, and if the new Xubu LTS is too much for this old hardware, I would do a Mepis with Xfce type thing rather than straight Debian or Crunchbang, because:

• Debian/Crunchbang installer is still a pain
  
  Hardware issues with Debian and Crunchbang disappear with Xubu and Mepis. They both work right out of the box effortlessly.
  
  Updates do not break Mepis, even when "upstream" Debian updates break Debian and Crunchbang.

That said, I've been checking out SalixOS lately. Xfce, rock-stable, Slack-based (which means reeeeally long support. Didjya know Slackware 2 is still receiving updates?! That's like 9 years! Sounds like another nice alternative. I'm waiting for the 13.37 LiveCD to be ready and I'll try SalixOS again. The 13.37 LXDE version was fast, but lame IMO. LXDE on Salix 13.1 was as buggy and limp as it was on Ubuntu back in 9.04. But Xfce rocks my socks.

[Nick_Djinn]

First of all, Mepis 8 and Mepis 11 is like night and day. There are wonderful additions like automatic driver installers missing in LMDE.

My suggestion was not to use SimplyMepis as a base, but use Anti-X as a base, install Gnome along with Mint Menu and Mint tools....That would be a DEBIAN based operating system capable of replacing Ubuntu based distros for noobs.

I strongly prefer Debian testing to Debian stable. I like newer software that runs faster. Experimental is a little too buggy for me, but testing is just great. Debian has high standards, so while Testing might not be sufficient for servers its sufficient for work stations.....Also, its pretty easy to change the repos from testing to stable....that shouldnt be a deal breaker.

I have no interest in an OS that is stable for 9 years. I dont keep my installs that long....I mean, its cool, I just dont need it.

Slackware isnt noob friendly. Its fine if your a geek, but I am talking about noob friendly distros to get people off of Windows.....Right now Ubuntu is starting to suck, and LMDE just isnt a replacement. Nothing slackware based is a suitable replacement.


Mepis 11 has a lot of upgrades from Mepis 8. Anti-X, imo, would be a superior base compared to Debian....IF you are talking about a distro suitable for replacing the Main edition, something you would install on your grandmothers machine who never used Linux.

I have no interest in editions that use only free software. It sucks when you just want to watch a youtube video and you have to jump through hoops to do it....Its not THAT hard if you know what your doing, but most people will get stumped. Therefor it cant replace the main edition in the pursuit of making a user friendly distro for newcomers, and the main release is buggier than it ever has been before.


Hopefully things improve with future editions, but it almost seems like Cononical is hostile to all the offshoots that are stealing its thunder....Pure speculation, but all the editions that use the main edition then install Gnome instead of unity are buggy and crashing. Im not happy about that, and Im not about to go back to vanilla Ubuntu.

Im going to try installing Anti-X, then Gnome, then add Mint Menu and Mint tools. If anyone is interested in an ISO just ask. Alternately you can do it yourself with Remastersys. Just be sure to erase any private data first.

[Pierre]

I've been quite impressed by M11 - I really like the H/W tool that is available @ the live_DvD startUP.
I still think that the ability to re-install Grub via The System Assistant is a brilliant idea.
& also that WW is still running with Grub Legacy

& I didn't think that I would like KDE4xx - but I DO like this version.

[DrHu]

Getting a better installer, a driver installer (like Mepis has), adding some repositories so its not just FOSS but all the goodies and niceties that Mint has been known for

Getting a better installer..
I have no idea what that might be, would it be like one of the regular OS installers (Windows or Apple) that takes an hour while it installs and runs through various adverts

• I can't say I find any modern Linux GUI installer difficult to use, newbie or not: can't anyone read English anymore?

..so its not just FOSS but all the goodies and niceties...
That isn't entirely legal, to include propriety parts, unless a deal has been made with the vendors to allow it, but it is also fairly unlikely that any vendors would go after a Linux distribution that did that, unless they got some heat from their other OEM suppliers either covert or overt
--still it is a simple matter to provide and installation (web site) location for any binary (propriety) drivers that might be needed as per that distribution, for example Nvidia or ATI for graphics cards..

I also quite liked Mepis, but haven't used it for awhile: I especially liked their idea of putting the website quickguide onto the installed desktop, sort of like How to use this OS or readme first

Slackware isnt noob friendly. Its fine if your a geek, but I am talking about noob friendly distros to get people off of Windows

Slackware isnt noob friendly..
We have to stop fretting over that issue, we can't force people to adopt Linux as their OS of choice, and making us more windows like or trying to match windows features step-by-step (keeping us in sync with their corporate moves) won't help Linux projects in any way: it might even keep them back

• An example would be the Mono project to compete with .net
  --probably can't be done..
• Or OpenOffice trying to match the latest MS Office suite features or formats, even Apple doesn't try that, and they are apparently the best performing tech company in the world, according to the market

Getting people off from their windows OS isn't going to happen, and probably can't even be a goal for Linux distributions
--we don't even rate as the most popular UNIX/Linux based products, I think Apple OSX get that prize

[craig10x]

DrHu....by a simpler installer for LMDE i think he means one that would work more like the ubuntu based installer that Main Edition Mint uses...you know, with the options to auto install either by totally replacing what is already on your drive (the one i always use) or else auto installing side by side with whatever other systems are already on the drive...then there is the manual methods for those who want those options...

This way, a newbie (or non newbie like me that PREFERS the auto install method) has that option to use...That is NOT available in the current LMDE installer...

Also...for pete's sake (lol) why is the touchpad tap not turned on by default in LMDE? What a pain to have to left click through the menu to get to the mouse settings to turn it on... Having to install "apt-xapian" just to get "Quick Search" to work in Package Manager...Just another few examples (aside from the installer) that shows how LMDE is still not as smooth and polished as Mint Main Edition...There are lots of other examples i could give, but i won't go into them now...

LMDE is coming along but still badly in need of lots more POLISHING
Also would be nice if the reliability factor could be greatly increased...I want a system i can work with not have to work on....
Which is why (at least for now) i am OFF LMDE and back (happily) on Mint 11...

[Robin]

That Ubiquity installer that Ubuntu and Mint Main use is really awesome! I remember asking others (maybe on UF or the Debian Users' forum I forget) why more distros haven't adopted that installer just for it's ease of use and sheer awesomeness/

The short answer is that Ubiquity just won't work on Debian. LMDE is not "trying to make it harder for newbies" by using the Debian installer instead of Ubiquity.

What I haven't heard, though, is why Ubiquity won't work on Debian (or any other non-Ubuntu base), not that I would understand the answer anyway. But I am curious as to why it (apparently) isn't being adapted, changed, fixed, and made to work on other distros. Because it's the bestest, most wonderfulest, most awesomest installer in the entire history of ever! (sorry, kids get excited about the dumbest things, don't we?)

[craig10x]

yes..it would be great if the ubuntu installer could be adopted to work on non-ubuntu based distros...i agree, Robin...surprised no one has tried to do it...
of course, there are non-ubuntu based distros out there (including ones that use debian, red hat, etc) that offer the same auto install options that the ubuntu installer does...so, i guess it must be do-able...

[Robin]

And wouldn't it be cool if there was just one or two awesome installers used on every distro... it would sure make distro-hopping alot easier!

[linuxviolin]

That Ubiquity installer that Ubuntu and Mint Main use is really awesome!

(...)

Because it's the bestest, most wonderfulest, most awesomest installer in the entire history of ever!

Hmm, I like as much Anaconda. It is perhaps less "friendly" for newbies but it is powerful and complete... It is at least one of the best.

The Mageia installer is also very good. As said by Jesse Smith in his review on DistroWatch:

Mageia's system installer is possibly the best desktop Linux installer I've encountered to date and I don't make that statement lightly. Fedora, Ubuntu, openSUSE and SimplyMEPIS all have, in my opinion, really good installers, but what I think places Mageia's at the head of the pack is the way in which it straddles the line between ease of use and more advanced options. It goes through the same steps as the other installers, getting our keyboard layout, preferred language, time and date information, etc. What I like about it is that most users could probably get through simply by clicking "Next" several times, but more experienced users can, with a click, bring up more advanced options.

These additional options are tucked out of the way without being hidden from us and it makes for a very simple, yet flexible program. For instance, during the partitioning section we're given the option to let Mageia simply take over all of the disk's free space or manually partition. The partitioner has a simple layout with a nice graphical representation of the disk, but digging into the options allows us to select from the ext3, ext4, ReiserFS, XFS, JFS, NTFS and FAT file systems. We can also set up RAID or LVM environments and the installer supports encryption. Likewise, the GRUB configuration page presents sane defaults so we can simply click through or we can get into the gritty details, adjusting entries and changing the boot loader's settings. It's all very well organized and clear.

I agree.