Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

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Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby rderosier on Sun Aug 05, 2012 8:36 pm

I'm a newbie to LinuxMint. I have a dual-boot configuration with Mac OS X.
For the past year or so, I've been running openSUSE 11.4 but when things
went terribly wrong when I upgraded to openSUSE 12.1 (installation always
failed, probably due to nVIDIA driver issues), I bailed on it and installed
LinuxMint 13 with the 64-bit MATE desktop.

With the openSUSE DVD downloads, you can install either GNOME or KDE or both
at the time of installation. However, it appears that LinuxMint DVD downloads
only provide one desktop per installation. This is fine, but when I try to
use the Synaptic Package Manager to install other desktops, I get confused.
First, if I type "cinnamon" in the Quick Filter it comes up with 6 pacakges.
However, when you click on Sections and look at all the various things that
can be installed, the Cinnamon desktop is not even listed. Why? Further, if
I type "kde" in the Quick Filter it comes up with 1357 packages. However,
when you click on Sections and look at all the various things that can be
installed, the following 3 KDE desktop listings exist:

KDE desktop environment with 258 packages
KDE desktop environment (multiverse) with 3 packages
KDE desktop environment (universe) with 248 packages

and those add up to 509 packages which is a far cry from the 1357 packages
found for "kde" using the Quick Filter.

1. Why the package count differences?
2. What are the differences between the 3 KDE desktop environments listed above?

I attempted to go through the 1357 KDE packages and mark the ones I thought
I would need to get a working KDE and I was repeatedly informed that it was
dependent on something but that that something would not be installed and
it didn't get marked. That is why I'm posting this for help.

Having said all that, how do I go about installing the same KDE and Cinnamon
desktops as if I had originally installed them using the DVD downloads
themselves? (I might note that I've never used apt-get and don't know
anything about it; I used to use YAST on openSUSE.)

Also, I'm assuming (like on openSUSE), that when I do get these 2 additional
desktops and I logout then I will have the ability to choose which desktop
I want to login using? Correct? (Since I'm relatively new to Linux, I want
the ability to try each desktop to see which I like the best.)

Thanks for any help.

Ron
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby Beardedragon on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:17 pm

Cinnamon and Mate are variations of Gnome, so most of those extra parts are already there. KDE has always been heavy with lots of files and different applications. You can install KDE over your other desktop and switch at login.
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby RETNUH on Sun Aug 05, 2012 9:21 pm

When you're clicking "sections" you aren't getting actual packages, just package groups. For example the program Firefox would go in a group with Opera. Packages can also be sorted other ways, such as where they come from. So by clicking that you are narrowing down what group of packages you are viewing.
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby rderosier on Tue Aug 07, 2012 5:52 pm

I went ahead and marked for installation the 6 Cinnamon packages and installed them.
This went ok and I was presented the choice of which desktop to login with, which is good.

Then I went through the 1357 KDE packages and marked the ones I wanted and installed them.
This did NOT go ok! There were a few failures where it complained about trying to overwrite
some scripts or files or something, and somethings did not get installed. When I logged out I
was again presented the choice of which desktop to login with and KDE was included, so I
logged in with KDE. While looking around, something popped up telling me there were 19
updates, so I brought up the Update Manager but there were only 2 updates listed which I
said to install. This also failed complaining about trying to overwrite some script, file, or
something. It was late a night, so I shutdown the computer.

The next morning, I turned on the computer and booted into Linux and was surprised to
find that I had to login using my password. I was using Automatic Login, so something
changed this. So, while in MATE, I brought up my User Account and changed it back to not
having to use my password again. I then rebooted the machine and again was asked to
login in again with my password.

At this point, I decided to remove Cinnamon and KDE using Synaptic. So, I unmarked the
things I previously marked to install them and just for grins, I searched for MATE just to
see if any of those packages were changed. To my surprise, many of the MATE packages
were also marked for removal and I don't understand why.

At this point, I just quit Synaptic without changing anything, and decided to just reinstall
MATE again, which I'm currently doing.

Apparently, installing multiple desktops in the same space does NOT work so well.
I might, at some point, try what I found someone suggested in the forums to create
different partitions for each desktop and share the same /home. What I do NOT like about
this approach is that I use rEFIt at boot to decide whether to run Mac OS X or Linux, and
this will present me with Mac OS X and 4 different Linux OSes and will not differentiate
between them. I'm not sure it really matters though, since all I guess I would have to do
is select any one of them and then log out and login again with the desktop I want to use.
I'm not sure of this.
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby zerozero on Tue Aug 07, 2012 6:33 pm

apt can look a bit alien but it's a powerful and flexible tool.
you need tho to get used to it.
some of the issues here:
- metapackages
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MetaPackages
you don't need (and you shouldn't, if you don't know what you are looking for) to go through 1300 kde pkg and cherrypick the ones you fancy; metapackages will install the needed components.

- dependencies and rdependencies
To my surprise, many of the MATE packages were also marked for removal and I don't understand why.

play with this graphic http://demos.thejit.org/lpkgd/#
maybe it will make easier to understand how the pkgs/lib are interconnected in a linux system.
http://www.ubuntugeek.com/how-to-check-package-dependencies-with-apt-rdepends-on-ubuntu.html
http://collab-maint.alioth.debian.org/debtree/
http://www.debianadmin.com/recursively-lists-package-dependencies-using-apt-rdepends.html
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby rderosier on Tue Aug 07, 2012 8:33 pm

zerozero wrote:apt can look a bit alien but it's a powerful and flexible tool.
you need tho to get used to it.
some of the issues here:
- metapackages


Using metapackages would be fine with me. BUT, how does one know/learn what metapackages exist?
Looking at the metapackages examples you pointed me at would lead me to believe that I could do the
following to get Cinnamon, KDE, and Xfce installed after I already have MATE installed:

apt-get install cinnamon-desktop-environment
apt-get install kde-desktop-environment
apt-get install xfce-desktop-environment

Am I correct? If not, please give me the commands that would allow me to install each of the mentioned
desktops so they would match as closely as possible what I would get if I installed each from DVD.

Also, I read somewhere that if one starts with Apt, Synaptic, or Software Manager then he/she should always
do everything that way and that it was not a good practice to switch between them. Is this true?

Thanks

Ron
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby zerozero on Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:25 pm

Also, I read somewhere that if one starts with Apt, Synaptic, or Software Manager then he/she should always
do everything that way and that it was not a good practice to switch between them. Is this true?
this one first (it's easier :lol: ) all the examples that you listed here use the same backend, so it's safe to switch between them, use them at turns, one for installs another for upgrades, whatever rocks your linux 8)
that statement is used in the apt/aptitude argumentation because they use different algorithms and then, yes, you can get yourself into troubles.

regarding the DE's metapackages:
- cinnamon
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get install cinnamon

- xfce (1)see EDIT bellow.
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get install xfce4
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get install xfce4-goodies
(installs additional plugins this is the debian page with the metapackage description(for some reason xfce.org is down atm)
- kde:
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get install mint-meta-kde


(1)EDIT: with this you won't get exactly the same result as Maya xfce, you will get xfce4.8 and non-branded while maya has xfce 4.10 with mint-specific branding.
to achieve the same result going from mate (i never tested this, i'm just assuming from logic :mrgreen: ) i would try this way:
Code: Select all
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xubuntu-dev/xfce-4.10
this adds the same ppa maya uses to pull in the xfce4.10 pkgs
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get update

Code: Select all
sudo apt-get install mint-meta-xfce
(this should work - i hope)
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby rderosier on Wed Aug 08, 2012 5:18 pm

zerozero wrote:
regarding the DE's metapackages:
- cinnamon
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get install cinnamon

- xfce (1)see EDIT bellow.
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get install xfce4
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get install xfce4-goodies
(installs additional plugins this is the debian page with the metapackage description(for some reason xfce.org is down atm)
- kde:
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get install mint-meta-kde


(1)EDIT: with this you won't get exactly the same result as Maya xfce, you will get xfce4.8 and non-branded while maya has xfce 4.10 with mint-specific branding.
to achieve the same result going from mate (i never tested this, i'm just assuming from logic :mrgreen: ) i would try this way:
Code: Select all
sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xubuntu-dev/xfce-4.10
this adds the same ppa maya uses to pull in the xfce4.10 pkgs
Code: Select all
sudo apt-get update

Code: Select all
sudo apt-get install mint-meta-xfce
(this should work - i hope)


First, I want to thank you for your help!

Now, the results:

1. Cinnamon installed without problem.

2. KDE failed, and this is what I got on my screen at that point:

Unpacking icedtea-7-jre-jamvm (from .../icedtea-7-jre-jamvm_7~u3-2.1.1~pre1-1ubuntu3_amd64.deb) ...
Processing triggers for man-db ...
Processing triggers for hicolor-icon-theme ...
Processing triggers for shared-mime-info ...
Unknown media type in type 'all/all'
Unknown media type in type 'all/allfiles'
Unknown media type in type 'uri/mms'
Unknown media type in type 'uri/mmst'
Unknown media type in type 'uri/mmsu'
Unknown media type in type 'uri/pnm'
Unknown media type in type 'uri/rtspt'
Unknown media type in type 'uri/rtspu'
Processing triggers for gnome-menus ...
Processing triggers for desktop-file-utils ...
Processing triggers for bamfdaemon ...
Rebuilding /usr/share/applications/bamf.index...
Processing triggers for mintsystem ...
Errors were encountered while processing:
/var/cache/apt/archives/mint-info-kde_2012.05.02_amd64.deb
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)

I'm not presented with a KDE desktop choice when I login.

3-a. sudo add-apt-repository ppa:xubuntu-dev/xfce-4.10 WORKED
3-b. sudo apt-get update WORKED
3.c. sudo apt-get install mint-meta-xfce FAILED with the following on my screen:

You might want to run 'apt-get -f install' to correct these:
The following packages have unmet dependencies:
mint-meta-kde : Depends: mint-info-kde but it is not going to be installed
mint-meta-xfce : Depends: mint-artwork-xfce but it is not going to be installed
Depends: gtk2-engines-xfce but it is not going to be installed
Depends: thunar but it is not going to be installed
Depends: thunar-archive-plugin but it is not going to be installed
Depends: thunar-media-tags-plugin but it is not going to be installed
Depends: thunar-volman but it is not going to be installed
Depends: xfce4-appfinder but it is not going to be installed
Depends: xfce4-mixer but it is not going to be installed
Depends: xfce4-panel but it is not going to be installed
Depends: xfce4-places-plugin but it is not going to be installed
Depends: xfce4-session but it is not going to be installed
Depends: xfce4-settings but it is not going to be installed
Depends: xfconf but it is not going to be installed
Depends: xfdesktop4 but it is not going to be installed
Depends: xfce4-screenshooter but it is not going to be installed
Depends: xfwm4 but it is not going to be installed
E: Unmet dependencies. Try 'apt-get -f install' with no packages (or specify a solution).
sudo apt-get -f install
Reading package lists... Done
Building dependency tree
Reading state information... Done
Correcting dependencies... Done
The following extra packages will be installed:
mint-info-kde
The following NEW packages will be installed:
mint-info-kde
0 upgraded, 1 newly installed, 0 to remove and 26 not upgraded.
96 not fully installed or removed.
Need to get 0 B/1,990 B of archives.
After this operation, 34.8 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue [Y/n]? y
(Reading database ... 228926 files and directories currently installed.)
Unpacking mint-info-kde (from .../mint-info-kde_2012.05.02_amd64.deb) ...
dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/mint-info-kde_2012.05.02_amd64.deb (--unpack):
trying to overwrite '/etc/linuxmint/info', which is also in package mint-info-mate 2012.05.02
Errors were encountered while processing:
/var/cache/apt/archives/mint-info-kde_2012.05.02_amd64.deb
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)

The issue with "/etc/linuxmint/info" I saw when I previously tried using Synaptic to install KDE.
It appears to me that if I had tried installing Xfce before KDE, it might have worked.

What do I do now?
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby rderosier on Wed Aug 08, 2012 9:49 pm

I was just told by Update Manager that I had new software that I went to install.
It immediately raised a window that said I had 1 broken package on my system.
I was told to use the Broken filter to find it. What does that mean?
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby Beardedragon on Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:02 pm

rderosier wrote:I was just told by Update Manager that I had new software that I went to install.
It immediately raised a window that said I had 1 broken package on my system.
I was told to use the Broken filter to find it. What does that mean?

Hmn, this should be in a thread of it's own. Open Synaptic Package Manager and on the left colum find filters, then Broken Filter and use that.
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby rderosier on Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:27 pm

Beardedragon wrote:Hmn, this should be in a thread of it's own. Open Synaptic Package Manager and on the left colum find filters, then Broken Filter and use that.


The reason I didn't make a new thread was because this problem is caused by my problems
getting multiple desktops together in the same space.

Anyway, thanks for the pointer. I did what you suggested in Synaptic and used the broken
filter but nothing showed up. I'm guessing that Update Manager already took care of it.
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby zerozero on Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:35 pm

sorry for the late reply but i'm trying to figure out the problems here:
KDE failed

the clue is here
Code: Select all
Errors were encountered while processing:
/var/cache/apt/archives/mint-info-kde_2012.05.02_amd64.deb
E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
mint-meta-kde shouldn't (doesn't need to) install mint-info-kde: this last pkg is used so the system "knows" what it is, you only need (actually can only have) one and as your system is mate, you already have mint-info-mate.
the solution here (imo) should be (in synaptic) locate this mint-info-kde and unmark it from installation. the rest should then go (in the kde part)

3.c. sudo apt-get install mint-meta-xfce FAILED with the following on my screen:

this one is more complex. i managed to replicate the error, find a workaround but the final result is not satisfatory (dunno if i missed something, probably); explaining:
- we have a circular dependency that prevents the sucesseful update
Code: Select all
 mint-meta-xfce : Depends: mint-artwork-xfce but it is not going to be installed

and then further down there's another error (that is not in your output)
Code: Select all
glib-compile-schemas: not found
this one gave me the necessary info
Code: Select all
Commit Log for Thu Aug  9 16:40:17 2012


Installed the following packages:
libglib2.0-bin (2.32.3-0ubuntu1)
libglib2.0-data (2.32.3-0ubuntu1)
libglib2.0-dev (2.32.3-0ubuntu1)
libpcre3-dev (8.12-4)
libpcrecpp0 (8.12-4)
pkg-config (0.26-1ubuntu1)
zlib1g-dev (1:1.2.3.4.dfsg-3ubuntu4)

installing these pkgs solved that dependency, i could now reinstall mint-meta-xfce and mint-artwork-xfce without errors but (as i said above) i don't get the default maya 13 xfce desktop, i get the default xfce (updated to 4.10)

i know that this is not a big help :oops: sorry
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby rderosier on Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:58 pm

zerozero wrote:mint-meta-kde shouldn't (doesn't need to) install mint-info-kde: this last pkg is used so the system "knows" what it is, you only need (actually can only have) one and as your system is mate, you already have mint-info-mate.
the solution here (imo) should be (in synaptic) locate this mint-info-kde and unmark it from installation. the rest should then go (in the kde part)


Using Synaptic, I marked mint-meta-kde for installation. It popped up a window saying it was also
going to mark mint-info-kde for installation, which it did when I closed the window. I then unmarked
mint-info-kde which unmarked mint-meta-kde.

As far as Xfce is concerned, I can live without it, I originally only wanted Mate, Cinnamon, and KDE.
I threw in Xfce only because I could and thought why not. Oh, well.

I looked at that /etc/linuxmint/info file, and I see that it is only about 10 lines and it is very specific
information regarding the Mate desktop (in my situation). If every desktop wants to have there own
version of that file to know what desktop is being used then I can't see how LinuxMint can have
multiple desktops in the same space. This seems to be an unnecessary restriction and (imo) an
easy thing to correct. (I'm guessing Cinnamon installed without problem because it and Mate are
both Gnome based? If not why then?)

Any suggestions on how to proceed or am I at a dead end?
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby rderosier on Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:24 pm

I was thinking of maybe switching to maybe installing the KDE desktop from DVD instead of Mate.
Then I would try to install Mate using Synaptic to see how that goes. First, I used Synaptic to see
what Mate items were already installed from the DVD. To my surprise, the mint-meta-mate is NOT
installed. The surprise comes from the fact that its description is "Set of packages required to run
Mate". For a newbie, I'm really confused. Why is this not installed? (Another reason I expected this
to be installed is because zerozero earlier had me install KDE using mint-meta-kde.)
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby zerozero on Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:02 pm

unfortunately we have until now tried to follow the easy approach (as in noobie-friendly) but i see that in the end of the day the problems this approach raises are more than the ones it eventually tries to avoid;
- just for the record i tried now this last idea of yours (install mint-meta-mate into maya kde and there's a conflict between mint-meta-mate and notification-daemon >> and try to solve this conflict doesn't worth the trouble believe me, not as far as i can see)

so the solution (yes because there's one :D ) is resort to the goo'old meta-packages (this won't give probably the same customization at skin level as installing the dedicated isos but you will have the DE available to play with)

1- cinnamon we saw already:
Code: Select all
apt install cinnamon


2- kde:
Code: Select all
apt install kde-standard
( this will give a functional kde desktop and the most used kde app) or
Code: Select all
apt install kde-full
(as the name says brings everything kde-related)


3- xfce: steps as in my other post (add the ppa, update) but then instead of install the mint meta package install:
Code: Select all
apt install xfce4 xfce4-goodies
(and you have xfce4.10)


4- if you start from other DE and want to install mate into it i believe that this notification-daemon conflict can popup as well if you choose the mint-meta-mate way, so
Code: Select all
apt install mate-desktop-environment
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby rderosier on Thu Aug 09, 2012 10:18 pm

zerozero wrote:so the solution (yes because there's one :D ) is resort to the goo'old meta-packages (this won't give probably the same customization at skin level as installing the dedicated isos but you will have the DE available to play with)

1- cinnamon we saw already:
Code: Select all
apt install cinnamon


2- kde:
Code: Select all
apt install kde-standard
( this will give a functional kde desktop and the most used kde app) or
Code: Select all
apt install kde-full
(as the name says brings everything kde-related)


3- xfce: steps as in my other post (add the ppa, update) but then instead of install the mint meta package install:
Code: Select all
apt install xfce4 xfce4-goodies
(and you have xfce4.10)


4- if you start from other DE and want to install mate into it i believe that this notification-daemon conflict can popup as well if you choose the mint-meta-mate way, so
Code: Select all
apt install mate-desktop-environment


I executed your items 2 & 3 above to install kde and xfce, respectively, and they worked!

My newbie curious mind, however, noted that you used "apt" this time, whereas, you used "apt-get"
the previous time. I looked at the man pages for these 2 commands and they weren't of any help as
to when to use either command. So why the difference?

At any rate, I now have all the desktops (Cinnamon, Mate, KDE, and Xfce) installed in one space, and
I verified I can login to each.

THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

Ron
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby zerozero on Fri Aug 10, 2012 12:06 pm

Image
i was running out of ideas.

regarding the last question: apt-get or apt
- apt-get is one of the basic commands of APT and has the usage we know:
sudo apt-get <command>
- apt (see apt man in the terminal) is a python script only available in mint used mainly for convenience that calls (according to the desired action) APT, aptitude, apt-cache, dpkg;
typical usage is (as you saw above) apt <command> (it will ask for the password automatically after to gain root access);
if you want to look into the actual script
Code: Select all
cat $(which apt)


have fun :wink:
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Re: Getting other Desktops in LinuxMint 13

Postby rderosier on Sat Aug 11, 2012 3:59 pm

zerozero wrote:so the solution (yes because there's one :D ) is resort to the goo'old meta-packages (this won't give probably the same customization at skin level as installing the dedicated isos but you will have the DE available to play with)


You did warn me that using Apt to install the other desktops would not allow
me to experience the look and feel of LinuxMint 13 Maya, and you were correct.
I really don't like the desktops this gives me, so I took the other approach
and partitioned my drive so my user accounts (4 - 1 per desktop) are on one
partition and each Maya desktop is in its own partition. So far, I'm liking
this arrangement quite well. The only downsides are that I have to reboot to
switch desktops instead of loging out and in again, the fact that I have 4
different user accounts and not 1 shared user account, and possibly wasted
space allocated to each desktop installation instead of shared space.

Because of the help I got in this thread, because I was willing to experiment,
and because the LinuxMint 13 installation process is so easy and user friendly,
this was an interesting learning experience.

Oh, and BTW, rEFIt (which I mentioned earlier) only gives me 1 Mac OS X and 1
Linux choice to boot into. You actually choose which Linux desktop to use at
the Linux boot screen. It shows you the desktop by name and by partition ID.
Very cool.

Thanks

Ron
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