LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

All Gurus once were Newbies
Forum rules
There are no such things as "stupid" questions. However if you think your question is a bit stupid, then this is the right place for you to post it. Please stick to easy to-the-point questions that you feel people can answer fast. For long and complicated questions prefer the other forums within the support section.
Before you post please read this

LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby Eucalyptus on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:22 am

Hi,

I am testing LM14 Cinnamon x64 in virtualbox and on a laptop. I find two visual design annoyance right in the first 5 minutes:

- The MDM login screen still requires to type login name and password. You said that the Selectable user list has been implemented. But how come there is no button on the login screen to change theme? Neither in Cinnamon Settings. Not only the user list is not enabled by default, its settings is hidden somewhere outside of the System Settings screen. Why did you make things complicate like that? I would prefer the login screen like in Ubuntu which is more elegant and less confusing.

- Now the worse, the screen quite often suddenly shrinks to become a workspace selector. I have to click on the workspace #1 to get back to where I was. And of course, a few minutes later, for I don't know which reason, the workspace selector shows up again. What is the reason for this workspace selector to become so important that it needs to popup that often? Is there a way to disable it?

I can't believe these blatant visual defects had escaped QA Team.
User avatar
Eucalyptus
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:50 am
Location: Canada

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby bimsebasse on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:44 am

Eucalyptus wrote:- Now the worse, the screen quite often suddenly shrinks to become a workspace selector. I have to click on the workspace #1 to get back to where I was. And of course, a few minutes later, for I don't know which reason, the workspace selector shows up again. What is the reason for this workspace selector to become so important that it needs to popup that often? Is there a way to disable it?


Expo comes up if your mouse enters the top left corner of your screen or if you hit ctrl+alt+up - I haven't heard of it just popping up randomly before.

In Login Window you add the names of the users you want to appear in the login screen - Mint always chooses customisability over simplicity. LightDM is simple and elegant but you can't customize it. MDM is the most customizable login manager for Gnome right now.
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
User avatar
bimsebasse
Level 7
Level 7
 
Posts: 1709
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:21 am
Location: Scandinavia

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby Linus9000 on Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:57 am

Eucalyptus wrote:- Now the worse, the screen quite often suddenly shrinks to become a workspace selector. I have to click on the workspace #1 to get back to where I was. And of course, a few minutes later, for I don't know which reason, the workspace selector shows up again. What is the reason for this workspace selector to become so important that it needs to popup that often? Is there a way to disable it?


I can confirm this issue, I have tried it on two different laptops, with and without mouse, in Virtualbox. What is interesting is, that the effect in the upper left corner gets triggered, although I never moved my mouse there. A friend of mine doesn't have this problem when using the 32bit version. I'll install the 32bit version on my laptop(s) and see if the issue is still there!
Linus9000
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:49 am
Location: Germany

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby norumaru on Wed Nov 28, 2012 10:07 am

bimsebasse wrote:In Login Window you add the names of the users you want to appear in the login screen - Mint always chooses customisability over simplicity. LightDM is simple and elegant but you can't customize it. MDM is the most customizable login manager for Gnome right now.

Sadly though, they do not in fact appear, as much as I add, at least for me. I am still using this workaround: viewtopic.php?p=580065#p580065 - although it seems immune to the height setting and will display as, I think, 50 px high since Cinnamon 1.6.7 came through the update manager.
norumaru
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:08 am

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby Eucalyptus on Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:38 am

bimsebasse wrote:Expo comes up if your mouse enters the top left corner of your screen or if you hit ctrl+alt+up - I haven't heard of it just popping up randomly before.

Fooling around in the menu I have seen that Top-Left Hot Corner option. I have disabled but the issue remains and I am 100% certain that when the Expo screen poped up the mouse was not in the top left corner. I tried to reproduce it by moving around the mouse the edges but when I want to trigger this Expo screen, I could not get it poping up! May be this has to do with some timing + gesture. In anyway, it is UNACCEPTABLE to guess what the user wanted based on mouse position or gesture and just trigger an action. The machine has no idea of what I want. Since I have learnt that this Workspace selector screen is named Expo, I have found that there is an applet named "Expo" which can be placed on the panel. How hard is that to let the user click on that Expo button? Look like the developers could not resist the temptation thinking they know better what the user wants. That was the main reason of Gnome 3 GUI debacle. Now LinuxMint is following the same trend. LM Dev Team would save more time if these stupid automatic "smart" actions were removed.

bimsebasse wrote:In Login Window you add the names of the users you want to appear in the login screen - Mint always chooses customisability over simplicity. LightDM is simple and elegant but you can't customize it. MDM is the most customizable login manager for Gnome right now.

I spend very little time in the login screen. Practical is still better than customization in my case. I have clicked on anything clickable on that default MDM login screen. I didn't see anything that allows to add user names. If the concept of MDM is customizable, then how come it doesn't have the Theme option directly in the login screen?

An in general, the organization of various Settings is a mess in this release. System Settings, Cinnamon Settings, Menu - Preferences - Login Screen. It would be much simpler if all Settings are grouped into a single Settings screen.
User avatar
Eucalyptus
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:50 am
Location: Canada

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby bimsebasse on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:17 pm

Euc, you need to understand that what you want is not necessarily what others want, and that Cinnamon is cost free and saying this or that is UNACCEPTABLE is infantile. There are plenty things about Cinnamon I would have done differently but I understand the concept of not being alone in the world and not always having my way, and also the not bi###ing about things I get for free. The hot corner you can disable in Cinnamon Settings in 10 seconds - what is the problem?

norumaru wrote:
bimsebasse wrote:In Login Window you add the names of the users you want to appear in the login screen - Mint always chooses customisability over simplicity. LightDM is simple and elegant but you can't customize it. MDM is the most customizable login manager for Gnome right now.

Sadly though, they do not in fact appear, as much as I add, at least for me. I am still using this workaround: viewtopic.php?p=580065#p580065 - although it seems immune to the height setting and will display as, I think, 50 px high since Cinnamon 1.6.7 came through the update manager.
.

Yes, you have to also pick a theme that supports user lists (or make it do so like in the your link), the default theme and more than half of the others doesn't. I'm using Arc-Wise-Userlist.
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
User avatar
bimsebasse
Level 7
Level 7
 
Posts: 1709
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:21 am
Location: Scandinavia

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby norumaru on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:36 pm

Urgh. Sorry for being dumb and thanks for putting up with it.
norumaru
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:08 am

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby bimsebasse on Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:53 pm

Don't worry, I was confused for a while as well until I realized some themes plainly don't support user lists :D
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
User avatar
bimsebasse
Level 7
Level 7
 
Posts: 1709
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:21 am
Location: Scandinavia

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby Eucalyptus on Wed Nov 28, 2012 1:47 pm

bimsebasse wrote:The hot corner you can disable in Cinnamon Settings in 10 seconds - what is the problem?

The problem is that even when the hot corner is disabled, the Expo screen still pops up randomly. I have found somewhere on this forum that you should go to System Settings, Windows and disable the edge effects somewhere. Sorry I don't remember the proper terms. At work at the moment, don't have the VM in front of me.

BTW, different design taste is one thing, I have no issue with that. But guessing the user intention to trigger an action is not design. My tone was rather negative because so far I am used with Mint as smarter in design. I'll try to evaluate a little bit more to see if it's worth to go ahead to replace LM11 with LM14 Cinnamon.
User avatar
Eucalyptus
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:50 am
Location: Canada

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby bimsebasse on Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:55 pm

Edge flip can be disabled in Cinnamon too. I'll give you - easily - that Cinnamon Settings is confusing to navigate unless you've monitored the development process closely. It could do with some tidying up.
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
User avatar
bimsebasse
Level 7
Level 7
 
Posts: 1709
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:21 am
Location: Scandinavia

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby greeniekin on Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:49 am

I agree expo on by default is stupid.

I was wondering what the hell was going on. I was checking that my keyboard was not broken. I had no idea what to search for either.
Especially since I seemed to get the random expo activation change thing as well.

I like the work-space switcher at the bottom. Everyone I've introduced to a system using that has Never got confused and frustrated wondering what the hell is happening. Including my mother who calls me a few times a week asking how to do something basic.

I think the default options should allow you to understand what is happening in 1 minute.
I joined this forum just to state this so it really annoyed me.

I'm sure some people like expo as that is how it got made.

Also those slider on off things are awful to. like panel edit mode.
When it is off the slider is over the on side and the off side is shown greyed out . Which I initially thought it meant it was on. Needs better design to communicate information. Also I do not get why we can not drag things normally and have a lock option to disable it. Currently it disables use of the panel completely.
greeniekin
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 2:37 am

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby bimsebasse on Sun Dec 02, 2012 10:27 pm

greeniekin wrote:Also I do not get why ....


Broken record here bu Cinnamon is not a year old yet. It was forked from a shell with 0 user configurability, and developers have to slowly add support for the comforts and features of a gnome panel from a few years ago. They can't do this from one day to the next, it takes time.

From your post it sounds like the MATE edition would be a better fit for you.
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
User avatar
bimsebasse
Level 7
Level 7
 
Posts: 1709
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:21 am
Location: Scandinavia

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby Eucalyptus on Mon Dec 03, 2012 1:21 am

I have found a work around: LXDE.

Just tried Lubuntu 12.10 this weekend. It looks minimalist but I am finally relieved to have a computer which does not pop up stuffs I don't want or hide important feature I want (the scrollbar). No more excessive distracting 3D, transparent effects. As luck would have it, the login screen has a user list by default. So far I like LXDE, will explore a few more weeks, if OK I will switch for real.
User avatar
Eucalyptus
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 9:50 am
Location: Canada

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby Tandle on Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:25 pm

Just installed LM 14 Cinnamon on a Dell Latitude. I've really enjoyed the experience so far (after hours of troubleshooting video card issues before I could even install).

I'd like to save my programs to a workspace, much like the experience on a mac. I have three workspaces, but so far I haven't been able to find a way to 'save' a program to a workspace. Is this possible, or planned?

I'm a patient guy (especially for awesome freebies!) and if it's on the list I'd be psyched. After trying so many distros, this one has really caught my attention. It's not done cooking, but man does it smell great :D

Thanks!
Tandle
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:20 pm

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby Linus9000 on Tue Dec 04, 2012 2:35 am

Just wanted to give you an update on this: I tried the 32-Bit version in Virtualbox and the error is not there. Furthermore I installed the 64-Bit version physically on my laptop (new 14.1 ISO) and the Expo-error is no longer there. :)
Linus9000
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2012 7:49 am
Location: Germany

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby norumaru on Tue Dec 04, 2012 4:46 am

Tandle wrote:I'd like to save my programs to a workspace, much like the experience on a mac. I have three workspaces, but so far I haven't been able to find a way to 'save' a program to a workspace. Is this possible, or planned?

If by that you mean have a program open on a specific workspace rather than the one you are on at the time, take a look at devilspie/gdevilspie (a GUI for it). It's in the software center.
If you mean having different program icons on different workspaces, I don't think that is possible at this point.
norumaru
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 21
Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:08 am

Re: LM14 Cinnamon, MDM and Workspace selector

Postby Tandle on Tue Dec 04, 2012 9:18 am

Norumaru,

I was referring to having programs open on specific workspaces. I will check out devilspie, thanks for the tip.

I'd like to set up more than just one hot corner as well, but it's certainly not a hindrance to have just one.

Admittedly, I'm setting up my mint to feel a lot like the mac I've been using for the last few years. Mint is already surprisingly close to the fluid experience I had on my mac. I had to do plenty of customization on the mac to get the right feel there as well. On the mac, I use the dock as my application switcher. When combined with workspace app designation, I was able to switch between apps quickly, I never had to resize windows, and I pretty much negated any need for minimizing windows.

Any other tips would be appreciated!
Tandle
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Mon Dec 03, 2012 6:20 pm

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 

Return to Newbie Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], gold_finger, Google Adsense [Bot] and 31 guests