[SOLVED] install nadia

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[SOLVED] install nadia

Postby monere on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:29 am

Hi there linux geeks :)

I am trying to install Linux Mint 14 (Nadia) Xfce for the first time ever in my life. I am sick and tired of dealing with viruses and numerous crashes and errors in Windows which is why - after 3 days of online research into alternatives to Windows I came to the conclusion that of all the OS out there (Solaris, BSD - which btw, I have no clue what this is or how it looks like or what it does exactly-, Linux, and OS X), that Linux is the safest and most stable of them all, and that of all the Linux distros Mint is the most user-friendly of them all, too.

So anyway, to make a long story short I have never ever in my entire life dealt with Linux (I only heard of it now and then by accident) but always used Windows as my OS (as probably 90% of the people out there anyway).

Again, to make a long story short (sorry for digressing) yesterday I tried to install Nadia for the first time on my PC from a live DVD that I created by burning the ISO image I downloaded from this website and while the live DVD worked well and while I have no problems in following instructions, it's the techie terms and details that stopped me from continuing with my installation of Linux Mint 14 Xfce and made me panic and instantly pull the Mint DVD out of its unit of fear that I might erase my entire HDD (which I have no backup made for btw, and which I don't intend to make either, at least not for now)

To be more specific, I have Windows XP SP2 (I know, I know it's an old OS, installed on old computer - a 2,4Ghz Intel Core2 Quad CPU, on an ASUS P5N-E SLI motherboard, with 2GB DDR2, and with and old internet connection - Speedtouch330 ADSL modem connected through USB) installed on my machine and I intend to keep it like this while I learn to use Linux Mint.

Now, since I already have my HDD partitioned and a working OS installed on it which I am interested in maintaining, my problems with Linux Mint installation appeared when I was told by the install manager to chose where to install Linux. And the reason why it was troublesome was because the options I was given were not like in Windows (install on drive C, D, E, or whatever) but instead I had to choose between sda1, sda2, etc ... all the way through sda8 I think. I have 5 partitions on my HDD and about 5 more created with daemon tools (if you know the program).

So, this was the first block road in my way of installing Linux. Another thing that freaked me out was that no matter which partition I would have chosen to install Nadia on it seemed that the program was decided to format/erase/repartition/whatever my entire disk regardless of which partition I chose. Now, I didn't like this obviously, which is another reason I instantly pulled the DVD out of the unit

And third thing that really made me abort the whole installation process and to ask for guidance here on the forum was that when I tried to create a partition I think (sorry but I am not sure which menu I accessed or which buttons I clicked in order to see the options I will tell you about next), I came across a few options that I had no clue what they meant or which one to pick. The options I am talking about were:
- journaling something (sorry, don't remember the exact names), there were 2 or 3 of these options
- then, there was ext14 I think
- then ext13
- ext12
- something else that I again I don't remember what it was named like
- then it was FAT16
- then FAT32
- then NTFS
- then the last option was something about "not choosing any partition/option" or something like that which is self-explanatory, so no need to worry about this one.

So, of all those options I would have eventually picked NTFS as a mounting point (yeah, I think that this is what I clicked on or around in order to stumble upon the options listed above) because all 5 partitions of my hard disk are already NTFS (whatever that means lol) and I usually stick with what I know

Now, after all these road blocks that I didn't know how to deal with and what to pick and what not, in order to preserve the current OS and settings of my HDD, I decided to postpone the installation of Linux Mint 14 Xfce until I get a baby-step tutorial on how to do it.

So, could I please have some guidance on what I must do to install Linux on one of the partitions already created for this (yes, I did empty and format a 50+ GB partition specifically for putting Linux onto it) while keeping Windows XP active at the same time?

One more thing, when I install Linux I will have to install disconnected from the internet because - as I mentioned above - I connect to the internet through a (very old, extinct actually) Thompson Speedtouch330 ADSL modem, pluggable via USB. So, connecting to the internet is not possible during the installation process unless obviously Linux Mint 14 comes with the drivers for my modem. Which brings me to the next issue: where will I get the drivers for my computer from since the CDs that came with my desktop purchase only provide drivers for Windows? I was almost forgetting to inquire about drivers lol.

In case you people need to know, this is what I will eventually need drivers for in order to make my PC function normally on Linux:

1) MOTHERBOARD - Asus P5N-E SLI
2) GRAPHICS CARD - Gigabyte Ati Radeon HD 4650
3) SOUND CARD - Creative Soundblaster Xfi Xtreme Audio
4) INTERNET CONNECTION - Thompson Speedtouch 330 ADSL Modem

Or, if I don't need to use drivers under Linux, that's even better :)

Ok, that would be all. Sorry for the long novel of a posting but it's always preferred to give more info rather than less info when asking for help and I hope I've given enough of it. If I missed something, let me know and I'll gladly reply with.

Awaiting for your reply and looking forward to finally put Linux on my PC.
Last edited by monere on Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: install nadia

Postby duncan222 on Fri Jan 18, 2013 11:54 am

I am a newbie myself but wonder if your difficulity is caused by having windows on a seperate partition to begin with.
I Downloaded the Mint 13 iso and when I came to installing it was given the option of keeping Windows 7 which I did and after the install found I had a dual boot system and could boot into windows or Linux. Like you I have no idea what the sda1, sda2, stuff is all about so can understand your concern.
I am sure others with far more knowledge than myself will respond to your post.
Good Luck and welcome to Linux.
I Would never go back to windows but keep it for a small number of programs that seem to need windows to run them.
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Re: install nadia

Postby monere on Fri Jan 18, 2013 12:27 pm

Hey man, thanks for the welcome :)

Yeah I keep hearing people who make the switch Windows -> Linux that they will never get back to Windows again and that they only use it cause they have to or when they help their friends with it. But to be honest, I don't understand what's so catchy about Linux. I only put it on my PC so I get rid of the viruses and instability specific to Windows. Otherwise I find Linux pretty confusing, when compared to Windows.

If I recall well, the first Windows installation I made in my life was not supervised by anyone and I still installed it correctly. I can't say the same thing about Linux, which already caused me problems at the first attempt :)

But one thing is certain. I will become a Linux user, that's for sure.

I will keep Windows installed however because of DOTA (a Warcraft type of game) that I don't think its available on Linux. When/if it will become available on Linux as well, I think I'll quit using Windows. But until then, I have to keep it.

So anyway, thanks for your intervention. Time for me to go back to reading the Linux Mint user guide :)

Cheers!

duncan222 wrote:I am a newbie myself but wonder if your difficulity is caused by having windows on a seperate partition to begin with.
I Downloaded the Mint 13 iso and when I came to installing it was given the option of keeping Windows 7 which I did and after the install found I had a dual boot system and could boot into windows or Linux. Like you I have no idea what the sda1, sda2, stuff is all about so can understand your concern.
I am sure others with far more knowledge than myself will respond to your post.
Good Luck and welcome to Linux.
I Would never go back to windows but keep it for a small number of programs that seem to need windows to run them.
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Re: install nadia

Postby Essexraptor on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:09 pm

Hi from another Newbie :)

I would go back into XP and make a careful note of all your current partition sizes and types.... ie primary, logical etc

sdb, sda sdb1 etc are just labels instead of A,B, C etc

You have a partition (50Gb) ready for your install.

So.... when it asks where you want to install select the option "something else"

Carefully search down the list to identify your set aside partition ( 50GB = 50 x 1024 = 51200Mb approx)

select and highlight that partition

then follow this guide from step 4 onwards

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=122276

hope that helps

:)

NB

Don't forget the rule of 4 Primary partitions per HDD max... you may have to do a little pruning out of dead wood first :)

EDIT

Just done a quick re-read. Keep it connected to the internet during install ie modem on and plugged in as normal. Modems are not a problem :)
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Re: install nadia

Postby monere on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:31 pm

Hi to you there.

It's nice to know I am not the only Linux newbie on Earth :D

I will definitely check the link you posted here, but for now I am taking a break as all I did for the last 4-5 hours is reading and inserting CSS rules, modifying php files and learning about Linux. And none of these are to my liking and I am not even remotely interested in them. I just have to know how to do them. So you can imagine how my head spins right now. I'll go play some dota for a few hours, and when I get back I will hopefully be able to assimilate more of this geeky stuff :)

Now, before I leave, I also forgot to mention in my first post that none of my HDD drives that was presented to me by Linux had the same sizes as what Windows shows. Which was another reason to get confused and not knowing what to choose lol.

Right now, I am looking at the sizes of my partitions and I see C being partitioned at 53,7 GB, D at 246, E at 48,8, F at 58,5 and G at 58,5 again. I can't say for sure but if I recall well, the partitions that Linux showed me had all sorts of sizes but 50+. Most of them were 60+ GB I think, with the D partition being sized at 240+ or 250+ GB which was easy for me to spot since it's the one with the highest size.

Anyway, I will see what to do about it, but it's time for a break right now.

Many thanks for the tips and good luck with the learning curve yourself, in case you still wish to improve your Linux knowledge :)

Essexraptor wrote:Hi from another Newbie :)

I would go back into XP and make a careful note of all your current partition sizes and types.... ie primary, logical etc

sdb, sda sdb1 etc are just labels instead of A,B, C etc

You have a partition (50Gb) ready for your install.

So.... when it asks where you want to install select the option "something else"

Carefully search down the list to identify your set aside partition ( 50GB = 50 x 1024 = 51200Mb approx)

select and highlight that partition

then follow this guide from step 4 onwards

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=122276

hope that helps

:)

NB

Don't forget the rule of 4 Primary partitions per HDD max... you may have to do a little pruning out of dead wood first :)
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Re: install nadia

Postby Essexraptor on Fri Jan 18, 2013 1:45 pm

Good luck

:)
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Re: install nadia

Postby monere on Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:35 am

Essexraptor wrote:Good luck

:)


Thanks man!

I just read that tutorial from the link you gave me and I am as confused as I was before reading it :)

First of all, how do I identify the correct partition to put Linux on? If you remember, I told you that I specifically prepared (erased everything on it and formatted) one of the 5 partitions of my HDD so I can install Linux onto it.

Now, that 50+ GB partition that I prepared for Linux alone, is labeled F under Windows and it's the fourth one from top to bottom as it appears in windows explorer. Now, since Linux has its own weird way of labeling partitions (like sda, or sb1, sd1, or whatever it calls them) and since partition sizes are also different from as they appear in Windows, does Linux at least present them in the exact same order as Windows does?

Cause if it does show them in the exact order that Windows displays them, then everything is OK and easy to figure out. But if it doesn't show them in the exact order.... well, I will need some tips on how to detect the partition I created for Linux, specifically.

Next issue:

Supposing that somehow I manage to identify the right partition for installing Linux onto do I still need to format it under Linux, as well? Or is the formatting I made in Windows enough?

Then, on to the next issue:

what do all these options that I'll mention below mean, and which one do I pick for my partitions?

The options I am talking about are: ext4 journaling something, ext3 journaling something, ext2, FAT16, FAT32, NTFS, and probably 2-3 more others.

Now, I don't remember what exactly I clicked on to find these options but I had to pick one of them (either to format a partition, or to rename that partition, or whatever) in order to proceed further. I wouldn't really inquire about these but if I am not wrong I wasn't allowed to continue installing Linux until I picked one of these. And since I have no idea what they mean and what they refer to, well.... I need to ask here :)

Then, something else that I need to know:

I want everything (programs, music, games, movies, downloads, etc.) that I will install on my computer under Linux (including Linux itself) to be put on the same partition.

But, reading that tutorial on the link you gave earlier I noticed that a Linux installation has each component (system, home, etc) installed onto separate partitions. But, since I only have one partition that I can use for Linux (and everything else - games, movies, programs, etc - that I put under it) I would like to know if it's possible to crowd everything on the same partition. And if it's possible is there any special setting or something that I need to tick/alter/whatever during or before installing Linux in order to achieve this? Or will everything that I install later on be put on the same partition as Linux? Or can I at least chose which partition to instal on?

Next, the swap file:

Reading the tutorial on the same link that I am talking about in this post, I saw a certain swap file being mentioned there. Well, I didn't find anything about this file at my first attempt to install Linux but I will probably come across it when I progress further with the installation process. So my questions are:

What's that swap file and what does it do? How much space should I allocate to it (if any at all)?

I need to know these because as I said before I only have one partition to spare for everything that is Linux included, even for the swap file :)

So, can that swap file be put on the same partition as everything else that has to do with Linux? Or does it need its own separate partition? If it can be put on the same partition (which is pretty large at 50+ GB considering that the recommended space needed for Linux to function properly is 5-6 GB), then it's fine and I will jam it on that same partition along with all other files.

But If I can't put it on the same partition as Linux and together with the music, games, etc., then this might be a problem :)

Will it at least not interfere with the Windows files and programs installed under Windows should I allocate the swap file a different partition than the one with Linux on it?

Well, there might be more questions but for now these are enough to see how to make a fresh Linux installation and dual boot along with Windows, and without compromising all the other partitions and data on my disk.

And speaking of partitions, I also forgot to ask if formatting/renaming/or whatever, in other words preparing a partition for Linux FROM WITHIN the Linux installation manager WITHOUT touching the other partitions if will make my entire HDD inaccessible/inoperable.

Sorry if these questions seem weird or stupid to you guys and gals. but for me are important because I don't want to lose all the data on my hard disk just because I didn't pay attention to a minor detail. I can't even create a backup of the disk, as I don't have another one of the same size (or even 2 or more of smaller sizes so I can save everything to those disks). If I could do this I would play with the installation myself and wouldn't bug you with such questions. I hope you will understand why I need to know all these things, especially that I only used Windows so far

Anyway, that would be all for now.... No, wait! There is one more thing :)

The drivers: where do I find them? Assuming that I manage to install Linux correctly from the first go, will I still need to install the drivers for my hardware components as I do for Windows, or will they just work without any drivers? If I need the drivers, where do I find them? Unfortunately none of the discs I got when I bought the computer came with drivers for Linux so that the motherboard, graphics card, the modem and everything else can work with Linux.

I will eventually search for the drivers on these components brands' websites but in case I won't find them there, where else can I get them from? I doubt that it's possible for the PC to function normally under Linux, without any drivers, although that would be really cool :)

But anyway, that's all for now. Please let me know everything that I asked about, so that I figure out how to deal with the new Linux terms and settings.
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Re: install nadia

Postby TheDynamicHamza21 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:19 am

Now, that 50+ GB partition that I prepared for Linux alone, is labeled F under Windows and it's the fourth one from top to bottom as it appears in windows explorer. Now, since Linux has its own weird way of labeling partitions (like sda, or sb1, sd1, or whatever it calls them) and since partition sizes are also different from as they appear in Windows, does Linux at least present them in the exact same order as Windows does?


hda are ide drives,sda are scsi drives,sba are usb connected devices.




The options I am talking about are: ext4 journaling something, ext3 journaling something, ext2, FAT16, FAT32, NTFS, and probably 2-3 more others.


For linux you can choose ext 3 or ext 4. Ext 4 is standard. You can't install Linux on a windows file system (NTFS). Fat32 are usually for usb sticks.

I want everything (programs, music, games, movies, downloads, etc.) that I will install on my computer under Linux (including Linux itself) to be put on the same partition.


Under Linux when you install it will automatically two partitions ,unless you choose "something else", one for swap and one for rest of the system. For swap you only need twice the size of your ram.

And speaking of partitions, I also forgot to ask if formatting/renaming/or whatever, in other words preparing a partition for Linux FROM WITHIN the Linux installation manager WITHOUT touching the other partitions if will make my entire HDD inaccessible/inoperable.


There's always a risk when editing partitions but if you know what you're doing the risk is minimized considerably.

The drivers: where do I find them? Assuming that I manage to install Linux correctly from the first go, will I still need to install the drivers for my hardware components as I do for Windows, or will they just work without any drivers? If I need the drivers, where do I find them? Unfortunately none of the discs I got when I bought the computer came with drivers for Linux so that the motherboard, graphics card, the modem and everything else can work with Linux.

I will eventually search for the drivers on these components brands' websites but in case I won't find them there, where else can I get them from? I doubt that it's possible for the PC to function normally under Linux, without any drivers, although that would be really cool



Usually you shouldn't need to install drivers since the Linux kernal will have handle that for you. However if you need to you can check in the Mint Menu under Preferences> Additonal drivers

I think based you numerous partitions it would better to use gparted on the live DVD and to post a screenshot of what drives look like in gparted so that users can better help you install.
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Re: install nadia

Postby TheDynamicHamza21 on Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:27 am

monere wrote:
Right now, I am looking at the sizes of my partitions and I see C being partitioned at 53,7 GB, D at 246, E at 48,8, F at 58,5 and G at 58,5 again. I can't say for sure but if I recall well, the partitions that Linux showed me had all sorts of sizes but 50+. Most of them were 60+ GB I think, with the D partition being sized at 240+ or 250+ GB which was easy for me to spot since it's the one with the highest size.



Linux follows the IEC Standard
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UnitsPolicy

The standard requires that all measurements in binary bytes be changed from the SI symbol KB to the IEC symbol KiB, MB to MiB, and so on down the list of IEC names.


Windows uses the SI naming convention improperly. For the most part, the symbols KB, MB, and GB used in Windows are binary symbols and should be changed to KiB, MiB, and GiB to conform to the IEC standard.

The IEC standards were released in 1999, yet Microsoft has not adopted the standards
http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/window ... 250gb/1511
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Re: install nadia

Postby monere on Sun Jan 20, 2013 12:57 am

My answers are in bold

I have no idea what ide and scsi drivers are but no problem, I will do some googling and find out :)

Now, about those ext3 or ext4 you say I should probably pick. Does it make any difference which of these 2 I go with? Or can it be anyone? And since we're on the topic, what exactly does ext3 (or 4) refer to? What's this all about anyway?

Also, you said that I can't install Linux on NTFS but all 5 of my partitions (as they appear under Windows) are NTFS. Does this mean that I will have to reformat one of these partition through Linux and choose another type of formatting for that partition? if yes, which type of formatting should I choose?


TheDynamicHamza21 wrote:
Now, that 50+ GB partition that I prepared for Linux alone, is labeled F under Windows and it's the fourth one from top to bottom as it appears in windows explorer. Now, since Linux has its own weird way of labeling partitions (like sda, or sb1, sd1, or whatever it calls them) and since partition sizes are also different from as they appear in Windows, does Linux at least present them in the exact same order as Windows does?


hda are ide drives,sda are scsi drives,sba are usb connected devices.




The options I am talking about are: ext4 journaling something, ext3 journaling something, ext2, FAT16, FAT32, NTFS, and probably 2-3 more others.


For linux you can choose ext 3 or ext 4. Ext 4 is standard. You can't install Linux on a windows file system (NTFS). Fat32 are usually for usb sticks.

I want everything (programs, music, games, movies, downloads, etc.) that I will install on my computer under Linux (including Linux itself) to be put on the same partition.


Under Linux when you install it will automatically two partitions ,unless you choose "something else", one for swap and one for rest of the system. For swap you only need twice the size of your ram.

I will definitely choose something else because letting Linux install automatically means it will wipe out my entire drive, and as I already mentioned a couple of times throughout this thread losing the data on my drive is the last thing I want to happen. So yes, I will definitely choose to install "something else" :)

And speaking of partitions, I also forgot to ask if formatting/renaming/or whatever, in other words preparing a partition for Linux FROM WITHIN the Linux installation manager WITHOUT touching the other partitions if will make my entire HDD inaccessible/inoperable.


There's always a risk when editing partitions but if you know what you're doing the risk is minimized considerably.

That's exactly the thing, that I absolutely have no idea what I'm doing :D
No worries though, I am learning as much as I can before I proceed with the installation.


The drivers: where do I find them? Assuming that I manage to install Linux correctly from the first go, will I still need to install the drivers for my hardware components as I do for Windows, or will they just work without any drivers? If I need the drivers, where do I find them? Unfortunately none of the discs I got when I bought the computer came with drivers for Linux so that the motherboard, graphics card, the modem and everything else can work with Linux.

I will eventually search for the drivers on these components brands' websites but in case I won't find them there, where else can I get them from? I doubt that it's possible for the PC to function normally under Linux, without any drivers, although that would be really cool



Usually you shouldn't need to install drivers since the Linux kernal will have handle that for you. However if you need to you can check in the Mint Menu under Preferences> Additonal drivers

Got it

I think based you numerous partitions it would better to use gparted on the live DVD and to post a screenshot of what drives look like in gparted so that users can better help you install.


Ok, I will do this as soon as I pick up some courage to attempt a new installation :)
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Re: install nadia

Postby TheDynamicHamza21 on Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:55 am

monere wrote:My answers are in bold

I have no idea what ide and scsi drivers are but no problem, I will do some googling and find out :)

Now, about those ext3 or ext4 you say I should probably pick. Does it make any difference which of these 2 I go with? Or can it be anyone? And since we're on the topic, what exactly does ext3 (or 4) refer to? What's this all about anyway?


Just choose ext 4 which is the standard. For more info on the Linux file system follow the link below.
Linux File Systems: Ext2 vs Ext3 vs Ext4
http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2011/05/ext2-ext3-ext4/

monere wrote:Also, you said that I can't install Linux on NTFS but all 5 of my partitions (as they appear under Windows) are NTFS. Does this mean that I will have to reformat one of these partition through Linux and choose another type of formatting for that partition? if yes, which type of formatting should I choose?


You can either reformat to 1)ext 4 or 2) delete the partition and just leave it unformatted as free space using the live dvd and then when you're ready to install choose something else to choose which partition to install linux on or at the point of installation choose something else and format the partition then using gparted on the live dvd. Now or later it's your choice since you have so many partitions you're going need to use gparted to install anyway.
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Re: install nadia

Postby monere on Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:54 am

Great! These explanations were exactly what I wanted to know in order to accommodate with Linux and its terminology :)

I think I am ready to try a new install now. Thanks buddy!

TheDynamicHamza21 wrote:
monere wrote:My answers are in bold

I have no idea what ide and scsi drivers are but no problem, I will do some googling and find out :)

Now, about those ext3 or ext4 you say I should probably pick. Does it make any difference which of these 2 I go with? Or can it be anyone? And since we're on the topic, what exactly does ext3 (or 4) refer to? What's this all about anyway?


Just choose ext 4 which is the standard. For more info on the Linux file system follow the link below.
Linux File Systems: Ext2 vs Ext3 vs Ext4
http://www.thegeekstuff.com/2011/05/ext2-ext3-ext4/

monere wrote:Also, you said that I can't install Linux on NTFS but all 5 of my partitions (as they appear under Windows) are NTFS. Does this mean that I will have to reformat one of these partition through Linux and choose another type of formatting for that partition? if yes, which type of formatting should I choose?


You can either reformat to 1)ext 4 or 2) delete the partition and just leave it unformatted as free space using the live dvd and then when you're ready to install choose something else to choose which partition to install linux on or at the point of installation choose something else and format the partition then using gparted on the live dvd. Now or later it's your choice since you have so many partitions you're going need to use gparted to install anyway.
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Re: install nadia

Postby monere on Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:14 pm

I made it! :D

Don't ask me how cause I can't really tell what I did to install Linux without accidentally erasing/repartitioning/formatting my hard drive, but I finally did it.

Woohoo :)

Now, I still saw some things in there while using gparted and while browsing through the install settings that I want to know what they mean.

More precisely, what does "mounting point" refer to? I clicked on something (sorry, I don't remember what I clicked on) and suddenly, all of my partitions received a "mounting point" label to the right of them. What does this mean and what did that labeling do?

Also, what do all other options (srf??, brtfs, xfs, etc) on the partition type list refer to??
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Re: install nadia

Postby TheDynamicHamza21 on Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:58 pm

btrfs,xfs are for highly advanced users who must deal with alot data such as server farms, I wouldn't worry about them.

A mount point is what C:,D:,etc is to windows NTFS file system.
Mount point:
http://www.linfo.org/mount_point.html
http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/man ... oints.html
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Re: install nadia

Postby monere on Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:21 pm

Ah-ha, I get it.

Thanks!

TheDynamicHamza21 wrote:btrfs,xfs are for highly advanced users who must deal with alot data such as server farms, I wouldn't worry about them.

A mount point is what C:,D:,etc is to windows NTFS file system.
Mount point:
http://www.linfo.org/mount_point.html
http://www.comptechdoc.org/os/linux/man ... oints.html
monere
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