After mint4win, how to perm install w/o GRUB as first menu?

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After mint4win, how to perm install w/o GRUB as first menu?

Postby garywesteros on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:45 am

I installed Minux Mint 14 using the Install Inside Windows method off the DVD from Windows 7. Happy to see that when machine restarts there is a Windows boot menu item for Mint. However Mint isn't permanent and "resets" on each reboot. I'd like to install the permanent version (1) without drive partitioning (want to re-use the large Windows file acting as Mint file system from earlier Mint4Win), and (2) still use the Windows boot manager -- not GRUB -- as the initial menu when computer starts up (if GRUB comes after the initial Windows boot menu, that is fine). How do I achieve these two aims? All the instructions I have come across imply that GRUB becomes the boot manager if I install Mint permanently.

Thank you!
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Re: After mint4win, how to perm install w/o GRUB as first me

Postby karlchen on Wed Apr 17, 2013 11:57 am

Hello, garywesteros.

Congratulations:
Within 4 days, you are are number 3 to step into the Mint4win installation pitfall. :wink:
Please, find the answer here: mint4win usable drive space and disk image size mismatch
And all will be good and as you have intended it to be once you have finished the Mint4win installation.
All the instructions I have come across imply that GRUB becomes the boot manager if I install Mint permanently.
As you will be using a Mint4win installation, the Windows boot manager will be and must be the primary boot manager. It will allow you to choose between booting Windows and booting Linux Mint.
Selecting Linux Mint will bring up Grub. This is by design. Yet, once you are absolutely sure that everything works perfectly you may configure Grub to show up for 2 seconds only and then proceed with booting Mint automatically. (I would not recommend 0 seconds, because it is harder to revert in case you should ever need the Grub menu.)

Kind regards,
Karl
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Re: After mint4win, how to perm install w/o GRUB as first me

Postby garywesteros on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:18 pm

Thanks for the advice. Despite at least 3 lengthy attempts, I am still unable to successfully install Mint permanently using Windows file system as prescribed. It appears to hang as the Copying Files progress bar freezes at somewhere around the 90 percent mark.

The steps I took:
1. After running Mint4Win and getting the Mint desktop, I launch the Mint installer on the desktop. Mint in my case is connected to the network (can browse via Firefox).
2. At the point where the disk partition selection screen appears, I select loop2 in the upper frame and (also) loop2 in the bottom frame. The upper frame is for where Mint proper is going to be, and the lower frame is for where the boot loader is to be located.
3. After answering things related to time zone, username/password and importing Windows files, the Copying Files progress bar (very slowly) progresses left to right, but in my case, it never completes. It appears to hang very near the end of the bar as it remains there for hours.
4. Hard resetting the machine and picking Mint from the Windows boot menu brings up the "demo" version.

Did I specify something incorrectly somewhere?

Thanks!
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Re: After mint4win, how to perm install w/o GRUB as first me

Postby usbtux on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:36 pm

rerun install mint from the mint desktop
http://goo.gl/DXKgM LinuxMint tutorials.
Running LinuxMint 17 Cinnamon/KDE/XFCE
http://goo.gl/WFu0u Installing Mint - the screen cast videos.
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Re: After mint4win, how to perm install w/o GRUB as first me

Postby garywesteros on Thu Apr 18, 2013 3:56 pm

Thing is, I have been running and re-running the Mint Installer from the desktop (my step 1 above). I even re-installed the Mint4Win and re-ran desktop's installer, same result.
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Re: After mint4win, how to perm install w/o GRUB as first me

Postby karlchen on Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:09 pm

Hello, garywesteros.

As far as I can tell from your installation report you performed everything correctly, including selecting loop2 two times, one time as the device for the root filesystem and one time for grub.
Therefore the hangs near the end of the copy process remind me of a lot of reports from the early Mint 13 days (and Ubuntu 12.04 days, too):
Before clicking the desktop icon "Install Linux Mint", the affected users had to
+ launch Synpatic
+ select "ubiquity-mint-slideshow" for de-installation
+ confirm to remove it from the live system (only valid for the current live session of course)
+ and once the uninstallation had finished had to launch "Install Linux Mint"
On quite a few systems "ubiquity-mint-slideshow" would cause the installation to hang sooner or later.

HTH,
Karl
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Re: After mint4win, how to perm install w/o GRUB as first me

Postby garywesteros on Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:24 pm

From Mint Menu > Software Manager, I searched for and uninstalled ubiquity-slideshow-mint as suggested before running Install Linux Mint icon on the desktop. There is no slideshow during the copying files, and the Copying Files progress bar is now inside a small dialog window instead of being at the bottom of the slideshow, but again eventually, it (whole system) freezes: About 30 mins after the last screen where I had to enter something, the mouse pointer (circular waiting icon) freezes and mouse pointer is unresponsive. Alt+Ctrl+Del has no effect.

Here are the steps I took (non-indented lines are window titles, indented lines are contents of that window):

Welcome
English
Continue
Preparing to install Linux Mint
drive space (ok)
plugged power (ok)
connected to Internet (mine is connected via Wi-Fi)
Continue
Installation type
top pane: very first /dev/loop2 is what I selected
lower pane: /dev/loop2 the one with "root.disk" in its description is what I selected
Install Now
Copying files progress bar appears below
Where are you?
click time zone
typed Chicago (only because it's what I would normally use in Drupal for Central time)
Continue
Keyboard layout
English US
Continue
Who are you?
Your name
Computer's name
username
Log in automatically -OR- Require a password to log in (I chose needing a password)
Encrypt home folder (didn't opt for encryption)
Continue
Install (as superuser) Select any accounts you'd like to import
checkboxes (left them all unchecked; import nothing)
Continue
Copying files dialog (small) with progress bar in it
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Re: After mint4win, how to perm install w/o GRUB as first me

Postby garywesteros on Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:28 pm

Welcome
....English
....Continue
Preparing to install Linux Mint
....drive space
....plugged power
....connected to Internet
....Continue
Installation type (see pic)
....top pane: very first /dev/loop2
....lower pane: /dev/loop2 with root.disk
....Install Now
Copying files progress bar appears below
Where are you?
....click time zone
....type Chicago
....Continue
Keyboard layout
....English US
....Continue
Who are you?....
....Your name
....Computer's name
....username (owner)
....Log in automatically -OR- Require a password to log in
....Encrypt home folder
....Continue
Install (as superuser) Select any accounts you'd like to import
....checkboxes
....Continue
Copying files dialog (small) with progress bar in it
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Re: After mint4win, how to perm install w/o GRUB as first me

Postby karlchen on Thu Apr 18, 2013 6:09 pm

Hello, garywesteros.

Would have been too nice and simple if you had been a victim of ubiquity-slideshow-mint. Too bad you were not.

About importing any Windows 7 users:
Have you imported any such users into Mint 14? - I never have. - I think, but I won't swear an oath, that importing Windows users during the installation caused hangs to other users.

About encrypting home folder:
Have you done activated this option? - I never have. - Cannot tell whether or not it is likely to cause trouble with Mint4win installations specifically. Maybe, maybe not. Cannot tell.

About Mint4win in general:
The last Mint which I installed through Mint4win were Mint 13 Cinnamon 32-bit and Mint 13 xfce 32-bit, both on Windows 7 SP1 machines. So I have never tried out whether a Mint4win installation of Mint 14 brings along new challenges.
(You may safely ignore my Mint4win 32-bit installation instructions for Mint 13, they will not help you with Mint 14.)

Kind regards,
Karl
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Re: After mint4win, how to perm install w/o GRUB as first me

Postby nerdtron on Thu Apr 18, 2013 10:36 pm

garywesteros wrote:Welcome

Installation type (see pic)
....top pane: very first /dev/loop2
....lower pane: /dev/loop2 with root.disk
....Install Now
Copying files dialog (small) with progress bar in it


Install Mint to the /dev/loop2

But don't install GRUB to tle /dev/loop2
Install GRUB to /dev/sda
You can change this option in the lower part of the installer where yoiu choose which partitions you want to install Mint.

I just tried it today, I thought it will ruin my beautiful windows 8 boot loader but it did not. It is working fine now, and everything is saved when I reboot.
"I learned a lot from repeatedly breaking my system and then reinstalling. Oh, and a lot of GOOGLE searches too!"
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Re: After mint4win, how to perm install w/o GRUB as first me

Postby karlchen on Fri Apr 19, 2013 6:02 pm

nerdtron wrote:But don't install GRUB to tle /dev/loop2
Install GRUB to /dev/sda
No. This piece of advice not correct.
With Mint4win installations you must never install Grub into the MBR /dev/sda.
Why not?
The Grub files are sitting inside the root.disk which will not have been mounted at the early point in time when Grub gets loaded from the MBR.
Therefore Mint4win installations put a grubldr file, named wubildr, in the root folder of the Windows drive C:. This wubildr will be launched by the Windows boot manager.
wubildr will know how to loop mount root.disk in order to be able to load the Mint OS files needed for startup.

Therefore the correct location of Grub on a Mint4win installation is the the root.disk and this is - as a rule - /dev/loop2 at installation time.

Karl
--
nerdtron, you may just have been lucky that putting Grub into the MBR did not ruin your Windows 8 system, because a lot of Windows 8 system will no longer use the MBR but UEFI instead. Yet, the thread starter is still on Windows 7 which defaults to using the MBR for its boot loader.
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Re: After mint4win, how to perm install w/o GRUB as first me

Postby garywesteros on Mon Apr 22, 2013 12:48 pm

OK I finally managed to install it. Step 16 is key. The steps follow below. The screen shots can also be found on http://www.alturl.com/z6ikk

1. Place Linux Mint DVD in drive, look for, and launch Mint4Win
2. Click "Install Inside Windows" when popup appears
3. Specify where in the Windows file system to create the Mint partition, its size and a username and password
4. Installation of the "demo" Linux Mint occurs. It's the one that will reside on that Windows file system partition for this phase
5. Select Reboot Now when the "demo" Linux Mint is done installing
6. The Windows Boot Manager should have an option for Linux Mint. Select it
7. The desktop of the "demo" Linux Mint appears. This demo version doesn't "remember" anything if you restart the computer
8. From the Linux Mint menu, select Software Manager
9. In the top right hand corner search box, type ubiquity-slideshow-mint and make sure it appears in the search result. Double-click it
10. Click on the Remove button for ubiquity-slideshow-mint
11. When it is done, you should see "Not installed" for ubiquity-slideshow-mint
12. Back on the Linux Mint desktop, look for and double-click the icon "Install Linux Mint"
13. In the Welcome screen select desired language, I chose English
14. Make sure there is enough disk space and has a stable power sourcee. I left my network connectivity intentionally unplugged
15. If a Wireless connection screen occurs, select "I don't want to connect"
16. VERY IMPORTANT: In the upper pane, select the loop2 that has "/" and "ext4" in that line. In the lower pane select the loop2 that has "root.disk" on that line
17. Pick a time zone and select a city--when you type part of a city's name it autocompletes
18. Select keyboard language
19. Specify computer name, primary user name, password and whether to automatically log in or requires password to log in
20. Select which Windows user accounts you want to import stuff from; I selected nothing fearing it would slow things down
21. A tiny Install / Copying Files dialog with progress bar appears
22. Progress bar takes quite a while to progress, something like over 4 hours on mine
23. When the computer finally reboots on its own, select Linux Mint from the Windows Boot Manager as before, and now there is an additional GRUB menu that comes afterwards to select Linux Mint from too
24. Linux Mint appears; I changed the desktop and installed Chrome shortly after
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