Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first!

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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby killer de bug on Sat May 24, 2014 6:37 am

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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby Tim_Olaguna on Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:30 pm

optimize me wrote:
Kaye wrote:Haha, or something. Nice sig by the way :lol:

I really wrote this in hope that it would get stickied so that we wouldn't have to keep droning on about how they really don't need the things they were used to in Windows. It was just getting old.

Yeah, lately I find myself loosing my cool when it comes to that.

I was a n00b once myself, as were we all. But these darned kids today.. they're just hopeless.

And I wish they'd stay off my lawn.


Uh, watch your eagerness to assume. Once in awhile one of us "kids" are 65 year old "noobs".
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby millpond on Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:48 am

One of the more common arguments I see is that the only reason Linux hasnot been attacked by malware is that it does not have the critical mass to attract the scummers.

However, nothing could be further from the truth.

Linux is an absolute prime target for *any* malicious hacker as that is what the major servers of the net and industry are based on. Amazon, ebay, apparently PayPal - all are on Linux servers. But exploits are rather uncommon. Even when running as root.

The problem with Win is that it was designed with backdoors, with a software programmable firewall, and remote functions turned on by default.
AV software is really useless, as the good boogers are designed by testing against ALL the bloody scanners at virustotal.com before release.
Its probably a good idea to assume that all Win machines are infected to some degree, especially when the basic OS itself is designed as a virus. Just try removing IE.

I have over a GB of programs that I *know* are infected (I can see them come alive in a sandbox) but which are undetectable by scanners.

AV software is a waste of time and space for the most part.
And useless for the few exploits such as Heartbleed, which mostly rely on buffer overflows.
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby MacLindroid on Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:13 pm

WinterTroubles wrote:Hi gastrof

Clamtk is the Graphical User Interface (GUI) package for clamav, it comes complete with both the interface (clamtk) and the actual antivirus package (clamav). It's an anti virus scanner available through the software manager on mint and once installed can be set to scan for viruses/malware automatically or simply used to perform manual scans. It doesn't offer 'live' protection as you maybe used to on windows, but, as mentioned elsewhere in this topic that's not necessary at the moment on linux home systems and even without it you are still far safer than than with 'live' virus protection on windows (assuming you follow the advice about safe behaviour online).

I currently use clamtk/clamav along with the standard safe online behaviour advice and find it easy to use... That said, so far I've not managed to download anything unsavoury enough for it to detect :lol:

Hope this helps :)


After a few years of being safe, all I can say is that I wasted time and used up bundle for updates. Rather secure your ** browser ** and lock you doors when you leave home. That should help secure your computer better than tiring yourself with something futile.
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby MacLindroid on Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:15 pm

gastrof wrote:
WinterTroubles wrote:Hi gastrof

Clamtk is the Graphical User Interface (GUI) package for clamav, it comes complete with both the interface (clamtk) and the actual antivirus package (clamav). It's an anti virus scanner available through the software manager on mint and once installed can be set to scan for viruses/malware automatically or simply used to perform manual scans. It doesn't offer 'live' protection as you maybe used to on windows, but, as mentioned elsewhere in this topic that's not necessary at the moment on linux home systems and even without it you are still far safer than than with 'live' virus protection on windows (assuming you follow the advice about safe behaviour online).

I currently use clamtk/clamav along with the standard safe online behaviour advice and find it easy to use... That said, so far I've not managed to download anything unsavoury enough for it to detect :lol:

Hope this helps :)


Can you direct me to a safe source to get Clamtk from?


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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby WinterTroubles on Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:32 pm

MacLindroid wrote:
WinterTroubles wrote:Hi gastrof

Clamtk is the Graphical User Interface (GUI) package for clamav, it comes complete with both the interface (clamtk) and the actual antivirus package (clamav). It's an anti virus scanner available through the software manager on mint and once installed can be set to scan for viruses/malware automatically or simply used to perform manual scans. It doesn't offer 'live' protection as you maybe used to on windows, but, as mentioned elsewhere in this topic that's not necessary at the moment on linux home systems and even without it you are still far safer than than with 'live' virus protection on windows (assuming you follow the advice about safe behaviour online).

I currently use clamtk/clamav along with the standard safe online behaviour advice and find it easy to use... That said, so far I've not managed to download anything unsavoury enough for it to detect :lol:

Hope this helps :)


After a few years of being safe, all I can say is that I wasted time and used up bundle for updates. Rather secure your ** browser ** and lock you doors when you leave home. That should help secure your computer better than tiring yourself with something futile.



Quoted and commented for simply answering the question asked :shock:

In case the implication is that I personally am wasting my time and not looking at the correct threats.. I do run a hardened browser as recommended in all the 'standard safe online behaviour advice'. But, thank you for your concern :D
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby MacLindroid on Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:38 pm

In which was do you harden your browser? I used Chromium on LM and Chrome on ZorinOS but recently reverted to Firefox and installed WOT, Dr Web, Ghostery, NoScript (I think), NoGoogleAnalytics, SelfDestructingCoockies and BitDefender Traffic Light.

And no, my comments were not aimed at you but a general obseravtion - I should have said so, therefore my apoligies :oops:
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby WinterTroubles on Sat Jun 21, 2014 5:46 pm

MacLindroid wrote:And no, my comments were not aimed at you but a general obseravtion - I should have said so, therefore my apoligies :oops:


That'll teach me to make assumptions :oops: No apology needed in that case :D

I'm currently using Chrome on LM17, with AdBlockPlus,DisconnectMe,Click&Clean,WOT,VirusTotal, a java script switcher and all plugins blocked so I have to enable them on a frame by frame basis.
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby powerhouse on Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:09 am

WinterTroubles wrote:...
I currently use clamtk/clamav along with the standard safe online behaviour advice and find it easy to use...


The clamav website clearly mentions that its main use is for mail servers. I can't see any use of clamav on a Linux desktop except for helping MS Windows users not getting infected. The OP calls it being courteous. However, as long as you don't forward email attachments to Windows users, there is no danger in spreading viruses/malware.

So, for me running anti-virus software on a Linux desktop is simply a waste of computer resources and thus a waste of energy. Then comes the moral question: Do I want to protect MS Windows users? Of course not! Because the more they feel protected, the bigger the danger that one day something real bad happens. Let's just hope that MS Windows is NOT used in security critical applications.

P.S.: I'm running Linux for ~18 years now - never had a virus or malware on any Linux machine, some of which run 24/7.
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby turtlebay777 on Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:15 am

Everyone who runs Windows knows - or should know! - that it is essential for them to protect themselves with anti virus and anti malware software. Why should those of us who use systems that don't get infected, waste our resources on looking after Windoze users!
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby WinterTroubles on Sun Jun 22, 2014 7:30 am

Personally I choose to scan any files I may share with family members running Windows as it will be me who has to fix problems for them and it also ensures that those files actually arrive, rather than vanishing into quarantine.


powerhouse

If you wish to quote me and suggest I am doing something that is ill-considered, maybe you could do me the courtesy of asking about my motivations for the choices I make. I agree that clam does nothing to protect my machine, however, it does protect my time.
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby MacLindroid on Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:03 am

Of course, if it protects your loved ones, use it by all means. Even so, it would be good to ensure that you have ClamWin on their computers and not something as futile as Avast or Norton. I always run Bitdefender on Windows but here is an even better solution. http://www.emsisoft.com

For the record, over the past thirty years, I never had more than a total of five virus infections on my computers. As for browsers, they are the fertile breeding grounds for malware and there I did catch a few, on Windows. Oh, and be careful of some spyware hunters as some, like Avast!, contain spyware/malware......... :shock:
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby WinterTroubles on Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:21 am

MacLindroid, well said :D

All the family members I support with windows run suitably effective live virus scanning and have a stand alone on demand scanner, mainly as a double check for when I'm doing maintenance on their machines. I've also got them running hardened browsers and since I started advising them not one of them has become infected with anything.. unless it's been since my last visit :lol:
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby powerhouse on Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:27 am

WinterTroubles wrote:Personally I choose to scan any files I may share with family members running Windows as it will be me who has to fix problems for them and it also ensures that those files actually arrive, rather than vanishing into quarantine.


powerhouse

If you wish to quote me and suggest I am doing something that is ill-considered, maybe you could do me the courtesy of asking about my motivations for the choices I make. I agree that clam does nothing to protect my machine, however, it does protect my time.


This thread is about advising newbies on anti-virus software and defragging. I have tried to make my point very clear that I'm referring to desktop use and not a server.

The reason I quoted you is that your post did NOT explain why, and it rather implies that it is good practice to run an anti virus scanner under Linux. We both know that this is not true (per se). Your explanation, however, makes perfect sense.

I apologize for having offended you - I did not mean to criticize your preference, I merely wanted to make a point that readers (like me) may misinterpret the meaning. I should have asked you.

Clamav does scan for some 173 Linux viruses, trojans, and rootkits (out of a total of over 3.4 million viruses). Most of them are "lab viruses" or "proof of concept", they never spread. Those maleware programs that did spread have been addressed by security updates. On Linux, the best protection against malware is using the official repository only; secure access configurations; and keep the system up-to-date.
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby MacLindroid on Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:37 am

powerhouse wrote:
WinterTroubles wrote:Personally

Clamav does scan for some 173 Linux viruses, trojans, and rootkits (out of a total of over 3.4 million viruses). Most of them are "lab viruses" or "proof of concept", they never spread. Those maleware programs that did spread have been addressed by security updates. On Linux, the best protection against malware is using the official repository only; secure access configurations; and keep the system up-to-date.



The above really is good advice. Users should refrain from dowloading applications via wesbites, torrents, etc. ZorinOS even refuses to use torrents for downloading as someone could insert malware into an .ISO image that way and spread malware.


We also cannot take responsibiliyu on behalf of Windows users, in general, unless we run servers they connect to. Even then, ClamAV is not the final word in weeding out malware. As many Linux users have low-spec computers, wasting system resources on anti-malware is not recommended, if for no other reason. I am using an AMD64 with 2GB RAM and I am dreaming of a Haswell i5 laptop with 16GB RAM, of which 2GB will go to HD4600+ graphics. Then I can also have KDE; for now it is Xfce only. Reality is that ClamAV is not needed to take up precious RAM as it is.
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby WinterTroubles on Sun Jun 22, 2014 11:45 am

powerhouse

MY original post, before being quoted, was in response to a direct question and should've been read within the context of the whole conversation, rather than quoted out of context as it has been more than once now.. As you had already made the perfectly valid point about whether AV software is needed on Linux 5 posts above my original post I felt no need to repeat it.

Now that's been cleared up...

No offence taken and I fully support your motives, I agree that my post could be misinterpreted... especially when taken out of context, which is why I've reacted once again to being quoted :oops:

Apologies for my negative reaction.
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby powerhouse on Sun Jun 22, 2014 3:00 pm

@WinterTroubles:

No offense taken - my apologies for misusing your post.

I wanted to make a clear point: Don't use Clamav (or any other antivirus app) under Linux, unless you need it to protect Windows users (running a mail server, for example). Many Linux newbies coming from Windows have a hard time swallowing this advise and often cling to anything that supports the old dogma. It's like trying to explain that the earth isn't flat (did you know that the old Greeks new better and sculptured Atlas holding a globe?).
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Questions about Antivirus? Secure Android instead

Postby MacLindroid on Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:30 am

So many people still think that anti-malware is necessary for Linux desktop users. It simply is not.

Windows Phone 8 is also very secure as a mobile OS, for not dissimilar reasons. It has nothing to do with user base and target size. It has everything to do with how these systems work. WP8, like Linux, requires something similar to "root" access, for instance and, how it handles media devices and data itself, is why it is so immensely secure compared with iOS and Android.

As Android is the most common mobile OS, I think that it is in every Mint user's interests to secure his/her phone first and the read below may be helpful.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Now to your Android phone or tablet:

Android phone manufacturers: Acer, LG, Samsung, Huawei, HTC, Nokia (yes!), Zest, Sony, Motorola, Prestigio, HiSense, Huawei - to name but a few.


Android phones are nice but I think it would be good if you read up on this.
http://allaboutwindowsphone.com/flow/item/19149_Mobile_malware_almost_exclusiv.php
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2222370/windows-phone-safest-mobile-platform-but-android-security-epidemic-spreads


Good advice: like I did, install and run a combination is Eset Mobile Security and Malwarebytes. Then also install and configure NoRoot Firewall. Allow or Block apps individually. I do not even install Skype as it wants access to types of information that it really does not need it. Ask yourself what Skype wants do be doing with that?


Never download and install apps from unknown sources. Android is the most secure mobile OS, but there is a BUT: unknown sources have infected millions of these devices and malware/spy ware has become a major issue. Two years ago, some 2000 malwares existed for Android, with only 80 for Windows phone. Android malware grew 640% during the next year and, as we Linux geeks know, downloading from unknown sources is where trouble comes from.


Did you know that your Android phone could be reporting your sensitive data to 350 servers around the globe no less than a thousand times per day? Harden you phone, do not ever compromise upon system security.


Here are more good reads:
http://www.v3.co.uk/v3-uk/news/2222370/windows-phone-safest-mobile-platform-but-android-security-epidemic-spreads
http://www.tech360ng.com/heres-how-to-really-keep-your-android-phone-clear-of-malware/


I hope that this may help to prevent heartache in future!
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby millpond on Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:42 pm

powerhouse wrote:@WinterTroubles:

No offense taken - my apologies for misusing your post.

I wanted to make a clear point: Don't use Clamav (or any other antivirus app) under Linux, unless you need it to protect Windows users (running a mail server, for example). Many Linux newbies coming from Windows have a hard time swallowing this advise and often cling to anything that supports the old dogma. It's like trying to explain that the earth isn't flat (did you know that the old Greeks new better and sculptured Atlas holding a globe?).


My question is: Does ClamAV protect anything?

The issue is this:
There are two levels of boogers: The kiddie stuff such as the freeware version of Zeus, and the real spyware/trojans.
In both cases the malware is tested against virustotal.com
Encryption is adjusted until it passes.

Even Norton admits that these days it cannot find nearly half of the malware.
The real issue is the steps to harden a system to prevent the boogers from phoning home.

I have found that AV software causes more issues of lost time and system damage than the boogers themselves (which are offten easily killed eith a registry editor, and a system registry restore using something like ERUNT at bootup.). Cost vs benefits here. I have had vaulable archives damaged by forgetting to disable default actions on some AV scanners.

Firefox has some good security addons. Perhaps someone can write a faq on the best ones to use. I had to switch the lil lady to Linux for a while from all the boogers she was getting (even with AV) in Win . Now she's surfing merrily along on a Win XP machine, with services hardened, AV and Firewall disabled. And running as Admin too. Updates were never enabled, so its no big deal abut lack of support. She knows to open NO email attachments. Accept NO updates.

The discussion we need is how to disable the ports of entry of the buggers, rather than even bother to try and find them, because with newer technologies - you cannot. Methods to block everything unless explicitly permitted, especially updates - which would be the main route of modern infections, particularly those from state sponsored corporate subcontractors.
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Re: Questions about Defragging or Antivirus? Look here first

Postby MacLindroid on Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:51 pm

millpond wrote:
powerhouse wrote:@WinterTroubles:

No offense taken - my apologies for misusing your post.

I wanted to make a clear point: Don't use Clamav (or any other antivirus app) under Linux, unless you need it to protect Windows users (running a mail server, for example). Many Linux newbies coming from Windows have a hard time swallowing this advise and often cling to anything that supports the old dogma. It's like trying to explain that the earth isn't flat (did you know that the old Greeks new better and sculptured Atlas holding a globe?).


My question is: Does ClamAV protect anything?

The issue is this:
There are two levels of boogers: The kiddie stuff such as the freeware version of Zeus, and the real spyware/trojans.
In both cases the malware is tested against virustotal.com
Encryption is adjusted until it passes.

Even Norton admits that these days it cannot find nearly half of the malware.
The real issue is the steps to harden a system to prevent the boogers from phoning home.

I have found that AV software causes more issues of lost time and system damage than the boogers themselves (which are offten easily killed eith a registry editor, and a system registry restore using something like ERUNT at bootup.). Cost vs benefits here. I have had vaulable archives damaged by forgetting to disable default actions on some AV scanners.

Firefox has some good security addons. Perhaps someone can write a faq on the best ones to use. I had to switch the lil lady to Linux for a while from all the boogers she was getting (even with AV) in Win . Now she's surfing merrily along on a Win XP machine, with services hardened, AV and Firewall disabled. And running as Admin too. Updates were never enabled, so its no big deal abut lack of support. She knows to open NO email attachments. Accept NO updates.

The discussion we need is how to disable the ports of entry of the buggers, rather than even bother to try and find them, because with newer technologies - you cannot. Methods to block everything unless explicitly permitted, especially updates - which would be the main route of modern infections, particularly those from state sponsored corporate subcontractors.


Norton is much overrated and there were scores of much better ones about. ClamAV also is not the last word on anti-malware detection & removal, a waste of time except perhaps if you run a server. For the average user - this is a NEWBIE section - there should not be discussions at a high level at all.

Very simple: LM does not need ClamAV or any other AV. This sentence is the one newbies should be reading. :mrgreen:
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