Update Manager and Synaptic

[Elthium]

A search of the forums didn't show an answer so here goes:

Just installed Helena 64 edition. First thing to do was to update using Update Manager which worked just fine. Now when I go to Synaptic and look at the Status in the "Installed (upgradable)" section it shows files that can be installed mainly to do with xserver-org, udev and linux-generic stuff.

My question is- Is it safe to install these files or should I ignore them even if they are marked as "upgradable"?

[bennachie]

Stick with Update Manager unless you are confident that you know what you are doing and why. The default option is only to apply updates rated at levels 1, 2 and 3 (see the wiki for an explanation of these levels). Other updates will be available, usually those destined specifically for Ubuntu, but they are considered by the developers to be a relatively high-risk proposition so far as Mint is concerned.

[rhodry]

You can see those updates without going to Synaptic if you want to. Within the preferences for the update manager notification icon there is an option as to what to do with Level 4 & Level 5 updates. Personally, I choose to show them but not auto-select. That way I can see what is available but not update if it serves no advantage.

Having said that, I have updated levels 4 & 5 updates on many occasions in both Mint 7 & Mint 8 without any particular problems. There has been the odd glitch to work through, so I do agree with the above advice that you should have some experience getting out of trouble if you want to venture there. They are usually critical elements of the system. In my case, I have some problematic hardware mixtures in this box I built myself and usually find the later kernels & system files work better out of the box so I stay up to date. Don't forget the old saying though:

"Don't fix what is not broken - and don't break it unless you can fix it!!"

Cheers,
Greywolf.

[Elthium]

Thanks guys, I'm a Linux noob so I'll stick with Update Manager.

[viking777]

Hope you don't mind me butting in and asking my own question here.

The only trouble with sticking with level 3 updates or lower is that you will never get a kernel update. Any kernel updates that I have seen so far have all been level 5.

I wonder what the Mint team philosophy is here? Is it that you should never update your kernel except when you switch to a new version of Mint? - What about kernel vulnerabilities that are security concerns? Or will I one day see a level 3 kernel update? (Bear in mind that until recently I have used Synaptic exclusively so I haven't been running Mintupdate for very long). Or is it the assumption that if you are actively seeking out new kernels then you will be able to use Synaptic well enough anyhow and sort out any problems that arise yourself?

Yes kernel updates can cause headaches - which justifies their level 5 status, but they can also fix important security holes that would surely justify the 'risks' of installing them.

It doesn't affect me personally as I always install all updates, but I just wonder what the thinking is.

[viking777]

And another thing!

I have Mintupdate set to check for updates 6 seconds after start and to recheck every 15 minutes. I also have all package levels marked as 'visible' and 'safe'. I know that Mintupdate conducts these checks, firstly because if you look at the tray icon the 'tick' disappears whilst it is checking and reappears when it has finished (unless it finds updates in which case it 'opens' the padlock). I also read the 'info' window (right click the tray icon) and it always says something like:

++ MintUpdate is in tray mode, performing auto-refresh
++ Starting refresh
++ Auto-refresh timer is going to sleep for 15 minutes, 0 hours and 0 days
++ Connection to the Internet successful (tried to read http://www.google.com)
++ Successfully downloaded new safety rules using proxy: None
++ System is up to date
++ Refresh finished

And yet - and this morning was a prime example - if I manually open Mintupdate (after it has finished checking and told me there are no updates) then very often I find updates available - this morning there were 6 and it doesn't have to search again to find these updates, they are listed straight away, so they must have been found on the original check but not notified by the tray icon.

Why is this?

There are times when the Mintupdate icon successfully informs me of available updates, so I can't say it isn't working, but it doesn't do so at all times.

I have my own theory, though this is completely unproven, and this is it. Have a look at this sceenshot:

Screenshot.png

You see from the information box at the top that it has root permissions. This is because I have a sudo timeout in force. When I first start up of course this is not the case and the information box shows 'user' permissions. What I suspect is that with root permissions it will find and display updates, but with user permissions it wont, and thus it only happens to display them when an update search coincides with a sudo timeout period which is why its ability to do so is quite random.

Now this might be complete rubbish, I don't know, perhaps the program is coded to only automatically show updates of a certain level whatever you set in the preferences dialog (this mornings updates were all level 3).

Anyway if anyone knows the answer (or maybe it is a problem peculiar to me?) I would like to know.

[remoulder]

if I manually open Mintupdate (after it has finished checking and told me there are no updates) then very often I find updates available - this morning there were 6 and it doesn't have to search again to find these updates, they are listed straight away, so they must have been found on the original check but not notified by the tray icon.

I don't find that behaviour here, maybe it's because you have ticks in both Safe and Visible columns whereas I only have them in Visible? Checking information first said it was in user mode and no updates found, opening mintupdate asked for p/w then automatically did a refresh - it always does this after entering p/w- and found 1 update.

What I suspect is that with root permissions it will find and display updates, but with user permissions it wont, and thus it only happens to display them when an update search coincides with a sudo timeout period which is why its ability to do so is quite random.

I find I only have to enter my p/w once for the enter session. I suspect it is initially running in user mode having been started via startup apps, but when opened it restarts in root mode and asks for p/w, then as it is already in root mode there's no need to ask for p/w again.

[viking777]

I don't know about the first bit but you know you are absolutely right about the second bit. I haven't used sudo for at least an hour and yet it still has root privileges so it must keep it for a whole session - hadn't noticed that before.