Click response problems with touchpad buttons

[sremick]

Hi there. New Mint user here, first time posting. Just got it set up.

Linux Mint 8, main (Ubuntu/Gnome) version. (Incidentally: where the heck does Mint tell you, after install, what version you're on???). Installed on a Dell Latitude D600.

Problems:

Intermittently, clicking on some UI element to "launch" or activate or something that should trigger an action, doesn't trigger the action until the cursor is then moved after the click. For example, while clicking on an [OK] button should clear the dialog or clicking on a link should take you to the link, it's not until the mouse is then moved after the click that the click registered. It's not 100% of the time and not consistently repeatable, but it's very common.

Less-frequently (but often enough to be a nuisance), one click registers as several. This is most-noticable when clicking on the lower/upper region of a scroll bar (the area above or below the slider) in order to jump up/down by a full page. Sometimes even though you click just once it acts like you clicked several times (or, more likely, that you held down the button for a few moments before releasing it) and instead of scrolling by one page you scroll by several, perhaps all the way to the bottom or top.

Current Xorg.conf file:

Code: Select all

Section "Module"
	Load "xtrap"
	Load "extmod"
	Load "GLcore"
	Load "glx"
	Load "dri"
	Load "record"
	Load "dbe"
	Load "freetype"
	Load "type1"
EndSection

Section "DRI"
	Mode 0666
EndSection

Section "Device"
	Identifier	"Configured Video Device"
	Driver		"radeon"
	#Option		"AGPFastWrite" "True"
	#Option		"GARTSize" "64"
	Option		"GARTSize" "128"
	#Option		"AccelMethod" "XAA"
	Option		"AccelMethod" "EXA"
	Option		"DynamicClocks" "true"
	Option		"FBTexPercent" "0"
	Option		"AGPMode" "4"
	Option		"DepthBits" "16"
	Option		"AccelDFS" "true"
	Option		"EnablePageFlip" "true"
	#Option		"DRI" "True"
	BusID "PCI:1:0:0"
EndSection

Section "Monitor"
	Identifier	"Configured Monitor"
	Option "DPMS"
	DisplaySize 269 201
	Option "UseEdidFreqs" "1"
	HorizSync 31.5-64
	VertRefresh 40-90
EndSection

Section "InputDevice"
	Identifier "Synaptics Touchpad"
	Driver "synaptics"
	Option	"SendCoreEvents" "true"
	Option	"Device" "/dev/psaux"
	Option	"Protocol" "auto-dev"
	Option	"SHMconfig" "true"
	Option	"HorizScrollDelta" "0"
	Option	"VertEdgeScroll" "1"
	Option	"TapButton1" "1"
EndSection

Section "Screen"
	Identifier	"Default Screen"
	Monitor		"Configured Monitor"
	Device		"Configured Video Device"
EndSection

[remoulder]

You don't generally need an xorg.conf file in mint 8. Try renaming this and restarting and see if your problem persist.

[sremick]

You don't generally need an xorg.conf file in mint 8. Try renaming this and restarting and see if your problem persist.

Until I made the custom file, I was getting horrible video performance as Mint was using a plain VESA driver. So unfortunately a custom Xorg.conf file is apparently necessary to get decent performance and usability out of this machine.

[remoulder]

Until I made the custom file, I was getting horrible video performance as Mint was using a plain VESA drive

OK, but you should know that most of the options you have specified will be ignored, see the xorg log file. You certainly don't need the dri and inputdevices sections and probably not the module and screen either. Touchpads are now auto-configured. You can also install gpointing-device-settings for finer control in gnome.

[sremick]

OK, but you should know that most of the options you have specified will be ignored, see the xorg log file. You certainly don't need the dri and inputdevices sections and probably not the module and screen either.

Fair enough. I was just going by settings from someone else who had the same problems with Mint/Ubuntu and this model laptop, and posted his settings which he found worked.

Just using "ati" or "radeon" as the driver instead of "vesa" wasn't enough and resulted in horrible video corruption and lockups. However, the resulting file I posted above works great, big improvements over VESA and has been rock-stable.

Touchpads are now auto-configured. You can also install gpointing-device-settings for finer control in gnome.

Ok. Was just posting the file since I was aware I had made changes and though it might be relevant. So be what may, no one has suggested an actual solution to the problem...

I'm not trying to tune user preferences. I'm trying to fix an intermittent bug in basic functionality. I'm not aware of any high-level user settings which could cause clicking on a button or link to not register until you use the mouse about 33-50% of the time. If I'm wrong, please let me know.

[remoulder]

I was just going by settings from someone else who had the same problems with Mint/Ubuntu and this model laptop

Copying someone else's settings is risky as whilst on the same model, his configuration could be completely different, was he even on the same version of mint?

I'm trying to fix an intermittent bug in basic functionality.

And I am saying that intermittent bug could well have been caused by your xorg.conf file. You are specifying settings there for the touchpad that may not be appropriate. I would suggest you backup the file then delete the sections I mentioned above and restart. If your touchpad is still a problem you can put the original file back, if it's ok you have your solution.

[sremick]

Copying someone else's settings is risky as whilst on the same model, his configuration could be completely different, was he even on the same version of mint?

Yes he was. And I realize that it can be risky. His was not the first I tried. However it was the first to actually work... which includes the default config Mint gave me before fiddling with the file.

And I am saying that intermittent bug could well have been caused by your xorg.conf file.

Which is, of course, why I included it in the very first post. So that someone would have the opportunity to be like, "ah yes, this is caused by that line...". Wasn't exactly expecting something along the lines of, "confused, dude? You don't use an Xorg.conf file!!! F-ing noob..."

You are specifying settings there for the touchpad that may not be appropriate. I would suggest you backup the file then delete the sections I mentioned above and restart. If your touchpad is still a problem you can put the original file back, if it's ok you have your solution.

Well, I tried what you just suggested... to no avail. The problem persists. It's also worth mentioning that I've since tried connecting a USB mouse and have not been able to have the problem surface while using it, so it seems isolated to the touchpad.

I am rather surprised at the hostile reception and scolding this Linux Mint newcomer received on his first post to the forums, considering:

- I got it installed fine.
- I tried searching on Google first, to come up with solutions, before posting. Which is how I ended up with settings that solved my video driver issue.
- I had the sense to appropriately post in the "Newbie Questions" section, which I hoped would gain me the benefit of more-tolerance if I had made newbie mistakes

It's also worth mentioning that despite your statement that "You don't generally need an xorg.conf file in mint 8", there's no reason for me to have known this ahead of time, nor suspected it. Installing mint actually creates an Xorg.conf file, so that's the first contrary hint to the new user. On top of that, Mint pays attention to changes to this file... further validating its significance and use by the OS. And if Mint in its great wisdom hadn't tried to stick me with the horrible-performing VESA driver, I wouldn't have had cause to dive into manually-editing the file in the first place.

And finally, as much as you might tell me how wrong the info I got from Unknown Random Internet Person #1 is and how I apparently should've done X-amount of additional research before applying his settings, you should recognize that you are no more than Unknown Random Internet Person #2, and I have no reason to consider your advice any more or less valid than his. Shall I spend more days on Google before trying your advice of commenting out those sections? Or should I just try them and see, as I did with the advice of the person you are so critical of?

Perhaps a bit more of willingness to see things from the newcomer's perspective and not scold them for making educated attempts might make for a more-welcoming atmosphere here for new users. I have to say I was not impressed by my first impressions of the Mint community and considered bagging the whole project and just setting her up with XP again if this was the sort of treatment I was in store for going forward with this system any time I needed assistance.

[sremick]

Bump. Anyone else with ideas? Still having this problem so have not been able to give the laptop to the user yet.

Thanks.

[BrianD]

Bump. Anyone else with ideas?

well... perhaps, yes.

I have a much longer story, which I need to write up and post here sometime soon... but part of it may very well concern the issues you're experiencing...

I have a Dell Latitude D400 (not the same as your laptop, but not totally dissimilar, either). It worked just fine under Linux Mint 7 (far, far better than Windows XP SP2!!), with everything functioning as you'd expect - no issues with ethernet, wireless, trackpad, USB, video, suspend, sleep, etc... everything just worked, right out of the gate. (In contrast, a fresh XP install left me with no support for video, USB, ethernet, wireless, or sound -- despite the prominent "Designed for Windows XP" sticker on the laptop from the factory! I actually got the drivers for these things from Dell, after I installed Mint 7 [dual boot] on the laptop... downloaded them from Dell, mounted my XP filesystem in Mint, copied the drivers to the "desktop" of my XP installation, and was then good-to-go. but, I digress...)

After a few weeks with Mint 7, I was increasingly feeling the urge to update to Mint 8 - there were newer versions of software available, with features I wanted, but they were not in the Mint 7 / Jaunty repositories; they were in the Mint 8 / Karmic repositories... so, despite the warnings and cautions on the Mint forums, blogs, etc, I executed a command-line dist-upgrade from Mint 7 to Mint 8 (before taking that leap, I had downloaded and tried out the Mint 8 ISO, and a cursory tour indicated that the main stuff was still functional -- no problems with video resolution, wireless or ethernet connectivity, etc.) ...and, of course, I backed up my home directory in case something went terribly awry.

So, the upgrade was fairly uneventful, and I had successfully gone from Mint 7 to Mint 8, and now had those newer versions of software available to me...

and, a few problems. A little investigation revealed, though, that these were not caused by my dist-upgrade, but in fact were with the underlying OS that Mint 8 was built on - Ubuntu 9.10.

1) my laptop wouldn't sleep. Instead, it lapsed into a coma! Screen was frozen or black, and there was no response to keyboard or mouse; in fact, the only thing I could do was hold down the power button and force a shutdown.

2) when playing video full-screen in VLC, the screensaver would kick in (not supposed to!), and then eventually try to sleep the display. See item 1, above, to appreciate the gravity of this problem...

well, anyway, I promised you a short story, so...

#1 was caused by an issue with the ACPI implementation in the kernel that shipped with Ubuntu 9.10 (and, as follows, Mint 8 ). It has been corrected, and the fix is in kernel 2.6.33, and will be in the next Ubuntu (and Mint) release. While waiting for the 2.6.33 kernel to make its way to me, I am able to employ a suggested work-around to resolve the issue with sleeping on my laptop -- I added a "nomodeset" parameter to the kernel boot line in grub. My machine now sleeps, suspends, and hibernates correctly.

#2 was caused by a change made to the gnome screensaver API, which they implemented (and disabled the 'old' way...) without widely announcing it to application developers. duh. short story, again, is that VLC (and Totem, etc, etc) cannot properly inhibit the screensaver from kicking in when they're in full-screen mode (as they have done in the past). That issue has been fixed in xorg-server 1.6.5, which (we hope) will be coming to a synaptic updater near you, very soon (I noticed that 1.6.4-2ubuntu4.2 is now in the pre-tested stage in the repositories, so hopefully 1.6.5-* isn't far behind...)

so, in summary... for your Dell D600 laptop, with its currently broken (presumably) ACPI implementation (as it is on my D400), I would suggest you try reverting your xorg.conf changes (just rename the file to something else, like xorg.conf.old) and see if the "nomodeset" work-around fixes your problem as well.

To do this, you just need to add "nomodeset" to the end of the kernel line in /boot/grub/menu.lst, right after where it says "ro quiet splash". You'll need to have root privileges to edit that file, so edit it by typing gksu gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst ... after you save your changes, run sudo update-grub ... then reboot your machine and see if your mouse behaves properly

[remoulder]

To do this, you just need to add "nomodeset" to the end of the kernel line in /boot/grub/menu.lst, right after where it says "ro quiet splash". You'll need to have root privileges to edit that file, so edit it by typing gksu gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst

Thanks for this suggestion Brian, just one thing though, in mint 8 there is no menu.lst, you have to edit the file /etc/default/grub and add the options before the second quote in the line GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=" "

I am rather surprised at the hostile reception and scolding this Linux Mint newcomer received on his first post to the forums

I'm sorry you have taken this view, I don't see my posts as hostile. I have attempted to assist you as I saw the problem with the information you provided, but believe in speaking plainly and appreciate this may sometimes appear a little brusque to some. I apologize if I caused any offense.

Installing mint actually creates an Xorg.conf

Actually it doesn't.

you should recognize that you are no more than Unknown Random Internet Person #2, and I have no reason to consider your advice any more or less valid than his

You are quite correct in this, there is no reason you should take my advice over anyone elses, but bear in mind you did actually ask for help from complete strangers by posting here.

the person you are so critical of

I see no criticisms of anyone else in my posts, please tell me where I did this?

Perhaps a bit more of willingness to see things from the newcomer's perspective and not scold them

Again I see no scolding in my replies, I have simply pointed out that some of what you have done is unnecessary and may have contributed to the problem, and suggested trying an alternative. You are of course free to ignore my advice.

if this was the sort of treatment I was in store for going forward with this system any time I needed assistance

This is a volunteer forum, no one is paid to support users and provide solutions but also no one is entitled to a reply let alone a solution. The fact that so few posts go unanswered and most(?) do find a solution speaks for itself.

[sremick]

Installing mint actually creates an Xorg.conf

Actually it doesn't.

Actually, it does. Or how can you explain how I ended up with one on a virgin Mint 8 install, minutes after installing?

Basically it went like this:

1) Install Mint 8
2) Notice how awful video performance is
3) Use the "find" command to see where Mint puts the xorg.conf file
4) Edit out the VESA driver and replace it with the ATI one.
5) Notice improvement (but then other issues), verifying that it's used.

I didn't make the Xorg.conf file. It was already there... otherwise I wouldn't have been able to find it to begin with and thereby discover where Mint stores it versus what I'm used to.

I have simply pointed out that some of what you have done is unnecessary and may have contributed to the problem, and suggested trying an alternative. You are of course free to ignore my advice.

Actually, I tried your advice, as you will see in the post of mine you just quoted. To quote myself:

"Well, I tried what you just suggested... to no avail. The problem persists."

[BrianD]

To do this, you just need to add "nomodeset" to the end of the kernel line in /boot/grub/menu.lst, right after where it says "ro quiet splash". You'll need to have root privileges to edit that file, so edit it by typing gksu gedit /boot/grub/menu.lst

Thanks for this suggestion Brian, just one thing though, in mint 8 there is no menu.lst, you have to edit the file /etc/default/grub and add the options before the second quote in the line GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=" "

Hmm. well, there's one on my system, and I edited mine as indicated above and things are working on this laptop, now. Perhaps the menu.lst is left over from Mint 7, still on my system and operational after the dist-upgrade. :shrug:

[vincent]

About Grub...Mint 7 (Ubuntu 9.04) and earlier versions use Grub legacy, and thus uses /boot/grub/menu.lst. Clean installs of Mint 8 (Ubuntu 9.10) use Grub 2, as well as later versions to come, and thus uses a bunch of files scattered in the /boot and /etc directories (which I don't understand the logic of), the most important ones being /boot/grub/grub.cfg (which you aren't actually supposed to edit...you have to "sudo update-grub" to change the file), and the config file from where it gets its settings, /etc/default/grub. Anyways, before I digress even further, it is possible to have Grub Legacy on a Mint 8 or Ubuntu 9.10 system, if you've upgraded from a previous system that also used Grub legacy. Then again, I wouldn't really recommend upgrading if you have the option of doing a clean install (this even applies to Windows). Just backup your /etc directory, make sure you do not format your /home partition during the install (but not neglect to flag it as /home), import select /etc config files as needed after the clean install, and voilà, everything should work without any unneeded/conflicting files carried over from the previous version of your OS.

Another side topic...correct me if I'm wrong, but strictly speaking, xorg.conf isn't created by Mint itself, but from the X Server. It can also be created and modified by other utilities and drivers; for example, if you have a nvidia device, it can create a xorg.conf through nvidia-xconfig. Because Mint by default is installed with a X server (provides you with the desktop) and all that, you seemingly get xorg.conf by default. If you chose to run Ubuntu's server edition, for example, you would have no x server by default unless you choose to install it with APT, and thus no xorg.conf (Ubuntu's server edition uses a command-line interface, I believe).

Now, as for the topic on hand, I don't know what's causing the problems with your touchpad. I presume it works fine in Windows, and thus it's not a hardware problem? Have you tried plugging in a USB mouse and seeing if it suffers the same problem? If it doesn't, then something about the touchpad just doesn't play well with Linux, but to be honest, I don't know how to troubleshoot touchpad problems since my own touchpad worked out of the box.

[sremick]

Another side topic...correct me if I'm wrong, but strictly speaking, xorg.conf isn't created by Mint itself, but from the X Server. It can also be created and modified by other utilities and drivers; for example, if you have a nvidia device, it can create a xorg.conf through nvidia-xconfig. Because Mint by default is installed with a X server (provides you with the desktop) and all that, you seemingly get xorg.conf by default. If you chose to run Ubuntu's server edition, for example, you would have no x server by default unless you choose to install it with APT, and thus no xorg.conf (Ubuntu's server edition uses a command-line interface, I believe).

Curious semantics. What is "Linux Mint" but Linux kernel + GNU userland + X.org + Gnome + custom theme and GUI tools. "Linux Mint" is the entire package, and when one starts from a clean slate and installs "Linux Mint", there is an Xorg.conf file there.

Now, as for the topic on hand, I don't know what's causing the problems with your touchpad. I presume it works fine in Windows, and thus it's not a hardware problem? Have you tried plugging in a USB mouse and seeing if it suffers the same problem?

Yes, as I said in an earlier post:

"It's also worth mentioning that I've since tried connecting a USB mouse and have not been able to have the problem surface while using it, so it seems isolated to the touchpad."

And yes, this laptop had XP on it immediate prior to installing Mint. There were no problems with the touchpad in XP.

[BrianD]

and, so... not to bring this discussion back on topic or anything... but, have you tried the "nomodeset" kernel boot option, and did it have any effect?