trying to log in as root, kde community edition

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trying to log in as root, kde community edition

Postby hms on Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:15 am

I'm now dual-booting Mint 3.0 gnome and Mint 3.0 kde on separate partitions, can use root at login screen in gnome edition but not in kde. Tried sudo passwd, sudo su - root, sudo -i, everything else i've read about on forums or could think of trying. All I wanted to do was change timeout in grub from 10 seconds to 30, was able to do so logged in as root in main (gnome) mint installation. Not trying to break my system, even if I do it's no big deal, this is my linux distro test rig, right now just trying to compare desktop managers in my favorite (so far) distro, so I want to be able to do everything / enable everything in both versions. Please don't tell me why I shouldn't log in as root, I just want to have the option, even if I never use it again.

Thanks in advance,
hms
Last edited by hms on Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Got the answer

Postby hms on Sat Aug 18, 2007 11:15 am

Found the answer on Mandriva forum. Now I got power to hose my own property as I see fit. Yay!!!
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Postby Husse on Sun Aug 19, 2007 11:25 am

The simple truth is - you should not log in as root!
Log in as normal user and then use sudo, in some cases sudo su if you have more than a bit of computer knowledge.
Time out for grub is changed, as you probably know now, by editing grub/menu.lst
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"Don't fix it if it ain't broken, "

Postby hms on Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:27 pm

But what if I wanna break it? And if I can't fix it I'll just buy (reinstall) it again. I've broken lots of stuff in the course of learning MS-DOG back in the dark ages, for example, and that's usually the best way for me to learn stuff. Seriously, though, there's a very good chance that I'll NEVER want to / need to log in as root again, but that's not the point. Neither is the fact that I've forgotten the little bit I learned about vi or emacs or whatever back in my college days and I prefer to use the GUI text editor (at least until I get back up to speed). No, the point is that this is MY system and what I "should" be able to do with it is up to me, not some KDE developer's opinion about what I ought to have easy access to. Heck, even Steve Jobs lets his customers get to the command line now. I don't mean for this to sound as harsh as it probably does, sorry about that, and warnings are appreciated. What I don't appreciate (and I imagine I'm not alone in this) are the seemingly patronizing manner in which some default restrictions are implemented at times. If a user wants to enable root login, he or she should be able to find out how to do it with a little digging inside the system documentation, even if the info is wrapped in multiple layers of warnings. What we shouldn't have to do is hunt through multiple forums for such a simple, basic answer.

However, as Linus Torvalds said: Of course, I might be wrong. :)
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Postby ythe1300 on Mon Aug 20, 2007 8:54 pm

If you break it do a good job :) .
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Postby Husse on Tue Aug 21, 2007 5:39 am

KDE is a bit annoying as it has an immediate time out for sudo by default so you have to type in your password every time. Gnome has a 15 minute (I think) delay.
One of the beauties with Ubuntu based distros is that you are not logging in as root, it's a good safety feature. When in root in LInux no questions are asked and your commands are executed promptly - this is of course valid for sudo as well but it is limited to some tasks at a time.
You should read scorp123's story of a mistake he made early in his career as root - with disastrous consequences (which you find here http://www.linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1315)
and a general discussion of the root question has links here
http://www.linuxmint.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2355
So I think it is a thing given much thought not to have root enabled by default
But sometimes if you want to do a lot of system maintenance or so a log in as root maybe helpful
(or sudo su)
You are warned :) Have fun
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Thanks for the feedback Husse and ythe1300

Postby hms on Tue Aug 21, 2007 10:04 am

I think I just like the idea that I'm in "control" or I have the "power" over my own stuff, but I do know it can be a dangerous bit of self-delusion as well. Anyhow, this is just one of the annoying things I've discovered about KDE. So far, I don't see any compelling reason to switch over from Gnome. But thanx again for paying attention to my newbie ramblings... :)
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Postby Husse on Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:10 am

paying attention to my newbie ramblings...
That's what we're here for :)
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Postby linuxviolin on Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:56 pm

hms wrote:"If a user wants to enable root login"


hms, a user must NEVER log himself as root! :evil: A user MUST use sudo/su.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
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"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)
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Postby hms on Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:28 pm

Hey linuxviolin, I ain't talkin about a workstation or a computer that belongs to the boss or somebody else, I'm talking about my own private property where I'm the sole user / administrator / god of the machine. So lighten up, dude. 8)
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Postby linuxviolin on Wed Aug 22, 2007 6:55 pm

Ok but even in this case my answer is the same one. That is one of the bases of security (all the more in a UNIX system) and besides even in Windows it is not advised to use an administrator account for daily use… Even Microsoft tried to improve the security in Vista and to educate the home user not to use an administrative account. :wink:

One must use a user account and make the administrative tasks with sudo/su. :)
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
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Postby hms on Wed Aug 22, 2007 9:12 pm

Hi, linuxviolin :) :

Okay, I know what you're getting at, but I'm not talking about daily use. I haven't logged in as root since I posted this message, and I may not log in as root for another hundred million billion quadrillion years. My point is a philisophical one: I want the damn thing ENABLED even if I never use it, because that's the way I want it, and I don't give a damn what all them little electrons buzzing around the microcircuitry think about it. :x I'm cantankerous, so there! :twisted:

P.S: by the way, why include root / administrator accounts in shipped product at all, if no end user is ever supposed to use it at all at any time and any place under any circumstances? Why not rip it out of the system before it leaves the developer's or vendor's hot little hands? :?

P.P.S: It seems like you think I've got nuclear secrets on my hard drive or something, that ain't the case. Be that as it may, I live behind a couple of firewalls and I'm monitoring for malware (yeah, I know, old WindBlows habits), so I ain't too worried about online hackers (and when I did log in as root, I was offline). Even if the computer gets stolen, the thief is still going to have to generate some passwords or hack the system to get an auto logon to get anywhere, and if he or she knows enuf to be able to do that, then he or she would also know how to enable a root login even if I did have it turned off, easy way would be to just boot up with a live CD and get to work. However, typical thieves are usually young punks who are just looking for hardware to fence. The real hackers (in the bad sense of the word) try to do all their pilfering from the safety of their own homes, I would imagine.

So now you know why I stated in the original post "please don't tell me why I shouldn't log in as root", I KNOW ALREADY. It's risky. So is getting out of bed in the morning. Or not getting out of bed, a plane might crash thru your bedroom ceiling while you're asleep. Everything is a risk, calculated or otherwise. I don't need you to hold my hand anymore, Mommy. :lol: Sheesh. :roll:
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Postby linuxviolin on Thu Aug 23, 2007 11:31 am

hms wrote:because that's the way I want it


ok but you should not want. That's all. No offence hms but again that is one of the basic principles in UNIX systems. Please do not seek "to pervert" the system. No XP-like approach here please... :wink:

Use a user account with sudo/su for administrative tasks. :) (to make changes in Grub for example, see your first post :wink: )

hms wrote:I KNOW ALREADY. It's risky


Ok, good, so don't do it. (Again no offence. :wink:)
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
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Postby hms on Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:16 pm

Quote: one of the basic principles in UNIX systems... okay, I learned that in 1988 when I started taking computer science classes at university.

Quote: Please do not seek "to pervert" the system. No XP-like approach here please... ???????? What the hell are you talking about?

Quote: Ok, good, so don't do it.

Okay, that does it. I thought we could give this a rest as of Husse's last reply, but you had to jump in and try to get a rise out of me, so I'm gonna log in as root from now on, just to piss you off.

P.S: To everyone besides linuxviolin who might be checking out this thread, don't take that last statement literally. linuxviolin doesn't seem to be able to understand sarcasm, satire, irony or humorous exaggeration. He (or she) doesn't seem to have any sense of humor and his (or her) self-righteous attitude is really starting to bug me, so I'm going to quit checking on replies to this topic. If one of the forum moderators wants to delete the whole thread that's fine with me.
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Postby scorp123 on Thu Aug 23, 2007 2:44 pm

hms wrote: Okay, that does it. I thought we could give this a rest as of Husse's last reply, but you had to jump in and try to get a rise out of me, so I'm gonna log in as root from now on, just to piss you off.
OK people, please be nice, OK?

@ linuxviolin: It's his system. If he wants to enable 'root' then let him. You can warn people, yes. Can you change them? No. It's their choice. If they know what they do: Fine. If not ... oh well :wink: Besides: Disabling direct access to 'root' is rather new and was introduced first with Mac OS X and then imitated by Ubuntu and Debian. On classic UNIX systems such as HP-UX and Solaris logging in and working as 'root' is something e.g. I have to do on a regular basis. It's a fact of life. Other Linux distributions such as SUSE also ship with an enabled 'root' account. If someone knows what he/she is doing then working as 'root' is no problem. On the contrary, sometimes it's a necessity.

@ hms: You wrote: "To everyone besides linuxviolin who might be checking out this thread, don't take that last statement literally. " .... OK, I won't. Nontheless: Please don't call others here anything ugly or give them names or something or make possibly false assumptions about them. Believe it or not but "linuxviolin" probably just tried to help you, e.g. keep you from hosing your system. Look at it from that point of view. Also: Sarcasm and word plays don't always work so well with people who are not native English speakers -- they might not get the meaning of the things you write. So sometimes it may be helpful to mark jokes and funny statements as such so that others may have a chance to understand what you *really* meant. Example:
    bla bla bla bla
    bla bla bla bla
    funny remark
    more bla bla bla
    even more bla bla bla
    stupid remark containing f*** words <== JOKE! :)
    End of example.
Something like the above is easier to interpret if you clearly mark it as 'joke' .... if it's funny or not is another question though. Trust me ... I too have my fair share of troubles with others here who sometimes totally misunderstand the tone in my postings. Only thing I can suggest here is: Be patient. And don't unneccessarily escalate an argument if it gets out of hand.

hms wrote: If one of the forum moderators wants to delete the whole thread that's fine with me.
As per your wish I will lock it now. But for the future: Everybody be nice, OK?

Thanks for your cooperation and have a good time ;-)
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