Christof999 wrote:I'd rather see less releases of Linux if it meant that when Linux came out it actually worked flawlessly on everyones computers. Although flawlessly for Celena may be a bit of an exaggeration since I just reinstalled Celena after posting that message and got Disk boot failure No Operating system. Thus far I have spent a week running on live CDs since no one distro has managed to just install and work. Celena was working great but now I can't even get it to boot. I got suse to boot, but no sound. Mint has sound (on the live cd, flawed sound however) but won't boot. I don't understand why one distribution can get something to work, while another can't. Why don't you guys all get together and just make one distribution that works instead of 100 that partially work? Or at least you could share your secrets with other developers so this stuff wouldn't happen.
One more time:
1: Pre-installed OS's will always work on your machine, because they're already formatted by the people who installed them.
2: Installing an OS on a machine yourself - and that often includes upgrades (especially one that's taken as big a leap as was taken from Celena from Daryna) - will always require some effort on your part.
3. If you don't want to exert any effort in this regard, buy a machine with a pre-installed OS.
I'll hold back from going into a rant about the culture of total convenience that seems to reign over the Western world, but I will say that you shouldn't blame Linux developers for not being able to create an OS that runs flawlessly on every conceivable computer known to man. To borrow your car analogy, this is a bit like asking that engineers design an engine that can suit every vehicle on the face of the earth.
First of all the issue is not that it doesn't suit my taste it simply is not working properly. There is a difference between something suiting another and working basically. Think of it like this, You wouldn't build a car with no breaks or steering would you? Well, boot failure and locking up is alot more like no breaks and steering than something simply not suiting me.
Secondly, I realize that being anti-western is the hip thing to do for many, but I neither think it is accurate or appropriate, anymore than making broad statements about any other people and culture is appropriate. Especially since this forum and topic are about computer operating systems, not any ethnic or cultural group. I doubt very much that anti african statements, or blanket statements about asians would be smiled upon. I for one am a European man, and find it just as distasteful to hear unkind statements about a whole culture, my culture, based upon your personal opinion. Furthermore, the types of people who often make these statements have the luxary of if not living in a "western" society, but at least benefiting from it. I am happy to tell such people who are quick to jump at European societies (and no other ethnic groups) that they are quite free to leave western countries or not partake of any of the benefits of them. Which include our inventions like the microchip, electricity, the internet, the first electronic devices and even Linux itself. Feel free to abstain from these benefits if you are deeply offended by our standards of quality. I for one have had enough of the ethnic double standard. Either its ok to be critical of all societies and make blanket statements about every ethnic and cultural group, or its not ok. Right now its not ok, so please keep your opinions about my culture to yourself.
To address the point, perhaps you think that people who want a working computer are being spoiled but I think that it is you who are out of touch. I certainly don't mind having to do a bit of work, and have done so in past releases, and not bothered to complain much. However when I have lost a week of time trying to get a system to even boot up and run for a few minutes it goes far beyond basic convenience. I have solved many (too many) problems with my computers, including linux over the years, and simply want it to just work.
Finally to address your point that if one buys a pre-installed computer it will work without flaws, well that is simply hogwash. I have in the past bought pre-installed systems and had to do much maintenance and tweaking on them. Sometimes it would take a month or two, but things would inevitably break and I would without a doubt eventually be reaching for the restore disks. If you don't believe me go look at the dell and Macfixit Forums. Plenty of people who bought pre-installed machines have hundreds of problems everyday. Here are a few choice topics from Macfixit forums
"Please help, I'm at my wits end. Black screen!!!!!"
"macbook- sound stops working w/headphones?"
"Help me, I can't get the dang drag and drop t'work"
Certainly seems like pre-installed OS' have their share of problems too.
Again this is not about me not wanting to do SOME effort. But the fact that I have essentially no basic functionality, after many many installs! The defensive posturing, the politics and "you didn't pay for it" arguments simply add to my frustration and seriously turn me off linux. None of that, especially the politics has in anyway improved my situation.