I have to say I am disappointed with 4.0

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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby deadguy on Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:57 pm

christof999,

f.y.i.

i'm not a developer. maybe you didn't know this either but, most of us in the community
are users just like you. some are very linux savvy (and amazing!!) people. some are average in there linux knowledge
(I put myself here) and some are newbee's(like you) lookin for help. so....
if you want help fine, ask. everyone here is more than willing to help if they can but......
it's obvious that your on a mission to convince everyone that it's all linux's fault or whatever
so I give up! what red-e-made says basically says it all so i'm done with this post topic.

goodbye and goodluck

Erik
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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby Christof999 on Fri Nov 23, 2007 3:49 pm

red-e-made wrote:
Christof999 wrote:I'd rather see less releases of Linux if it meant that when Linux came out it actually worked flawlessly on everyones computers. Although flawlessly for Celena may be a bit of an exaggeration since I just reinstalled Celena after posting that message and got Disk boot failure No Operating system. Thus far I have spent a week running on live CDs since no one distro has managed to just install and work. Celena was working great but now I can't even get it to boot. I got suse to boot, but no sound. Mint has sound (on the live cd, flawed sound however) but won't boot. I don't understand why one distribution can get something to work, while another can't. Why don't you guys all get together and just make one distribution that works instead of 100 that partially work? Or at least you could share your secrets with other developers so this stuff wouldn't happen.


One more time:

1: Pre-installed OS's will always work on your machine, because they're already formatted by the people who installed them.

2: Installing an OS on a machine yourself - and that often includes upgrades (especially one that's taken as big a leap as was taken from Celena from Daryna) - will always require some effort on your part.

3. If you don't want to exert any effort in this regard, buy a machine with a pre-installed OS.

I'll hold back from going into a rant about the culture of total convenience that seems to reign over the Western world, but I will say that you shouldn't blame Linux developers for not being able to create an OS that runs flawlessly on every conceivable computer known to man. To borrow your car analogy, this is a bit like asking that engineers design an engine that can suit every vehicle on the face of the earth.


First of all the issue is not that it doesn't suit my taste it simply is not working properly. There is a difference between something suiting another and working basically. Think of it like this, You wouldn't build a car with no breaks or steering would you? Well, boot failure and locking up is alot more like no breaks and steering than something simply not suiting me.

Secondly, I realize that being anti-western is the hip thing to do for many, but I neither think it is accurate or appropriate, anymore than making broad statements about any other people and culture is appropriate. Especially since this forum and topic are about computer operating systems, not any ethnic or cultural group. I doubt very much that anti african statements, or blanket statements about asians would be smiled upon. I for one am a European man, and find it just as distasteful to hear unkind statements about a whole culture, my culture, based upon your personal opinion. Furthermore, the types of people who often make these statements have the luxary of if not living in a "western" society, but at least benefiting from it. I am happy to tell such people who are quick to jump at European societies (and no other ethnic groups) that they are quite free to leave western countries or not partake of any of the benefits of them. Which include our inventions like the microchip, electricity, the internet, the first electronic devices and even Linux itself. Feel free to abstain from these benefits if you are deeply offended by our standards of quality. I for one have had enough of the ethnic double standard. Either its ok to be critical of all societies and make blanket statements about every ethnic and cultural group, or its not ok. Right now its not ok, so please keep your opinions about my culture to yourself.

To address the point, perhaps you think that people who want a working computer are being spoiled but I think that it is you who are out of touch. I certainly don't mind having to do a bit of work, and have done so in past releases, and not bothered to complain much. However when I have lost a week of time trying to get a system to even boot up and run for a few minutes it goes far beyond basic convenience. I have solved many (too many) problems with my computers, including linux over the years, and simply want it to just work.

Finally to address your point that if one buys a pre-installed computer it will work without flaws, well that is simply hogwash. I have in the past bought pre-installed systems and had to do much maintenance and tweaking on them. Sometimes it would take a month or two, but things would inevitably break and I would without a doubt eventually be reaching for the restore disks. If you don't believe me go look at the dell and Macfixit Forums. Plenty of people who bought pre-installed machines have hundreds of problems everyday. Here are a few choice topics from Macfixit forums

"Please help, I'm at my wits end. Black screen!!!!!"
"macbook- sound stops working w/headphones?"
"Help me, I can't get the dang drag and drop t'work"

Certainly seems like pre-installed OS' have their share of problems too.

Again this is not about me not wanting to do SOME effort. But the fact that I have essentially no basic functionality, after many many installs! The defensive posturing, the politics and "you didn't pay for it" arguments simply add to my frustration and seriously turn me off linux. None of that, especially the politics has in anyway improved my situation.
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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby Acid_1 on Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:39 pm

If you want something OoTB, secure, and plays all your vids/music. Get a Mac. If you want to go on an adventure, and build something yourself, stay with linux. If you want to stick to your "standard" way of doing things, use help and support from microsoft, and stay with windoze. :mrgreen:
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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby red-e-made on Fri Nov 23, 2007 4:45 pm

Christof999 wrote:Secondly, I realize that being anti-western is the hip thing to do for many ...


Stop. Just stop. I live in the west, for one, and refrained from my "culture of convenience" rant. Do us all the same courtesy and spare us any "I'm real and down to earth because I'm not PC" sermons, thanks.

Christof999 wrote:To address the point, perhaps you think that people who want a working computer are being spoiled but I think that it is you who are out of touch. I certainly don't mind having to do a bit of work, and have done so in past releases, and not bothered to complain much. However when I have lost a week of time trying to get a system to even boot up and run for a few minutes it goes far beyond basic convenience. I have solved many (too many) problems with my computers, including linux over the years, and simply want it to just work.


Well, then as I said, instead of "wasting a week" trying to sort it out yourself and then coming here to make some lengthy vent of frustration, why did you not start by asking for help in the first place? I never said you were "spoiled" for not wanting to do work - as I already said, not everyone has the time or patience. But I do think it's bizarre and unrealistic to expect an OS you install to automatically suit any computer it's installed on, especially when you say this:

Christof999 wrote:Finally to address your point that if one buys a pre-installed computer it will work without flaws, well that is simply hogwash. I have in the past bought pre-installed systems and had to do much maintenance and tweaking on them.


Then what, exactly, is it that makes Linux Mint - which has, as you say, caused you a week of headaches - more deserving of your frustration than these aforementioned pre-installed OS's that you claim you've spent a month trying to sort it out?

It really sounds to me as if you tried to sort it out yourself, couldn't get anywhere, and then came here seeking help, but also felt the need to vent. That's fine, but your frustrations seem contradictory and all over the place here. It's really very simple: if you want help, ask. if you can't be bothered, get a machine with a pre-installed OS. But responding to requests for more information so you could be helped better (as was done on page 1 of this thread, still without a response from you, by the way), by posting more lengthy rants isn't going to make your machine work any sooner.
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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby GrayWizardLinux on Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:03 pm

i loaded celena a day after it came out and it all works except for my printer - and that sucks; but.... I stick with celena and it works and I am happy. Matter of fact - I tried the updates and had errors, so I do not even use any updates and it all works and I am happy.

Maybe go back to celena if it worked as suggested previously.

Mint is very nice! Give it a fair shake.
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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby todds on Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:45 pm

Dear Christof999

I have been following this thread for the past day or so,and i have to agree with the majority of the other Linux Mint users on here.

Linux can be frustrating at times,but so can windows as iam sure we all know.

Clem has produced a magnificent distro here and he is too be appaluded for what he has done,it seems the majority of users are happy using Linux mint and are grateful for what clem has achieved.

There is no statement to say that mint will work with every piece of hardware or combination of different equipment at all.

It offers an alternative,a superior alternative in my book to windows.

There are many articles on the web about whether yo should upgrade to newer systems or better versions of software and they all mostly say newer is not necessarily better.

So you had a working system,I would go back to that if i were yourself,it worked why change it.

You can also if you want to pay for support you can through the following link. http://linuxmint.com/support/


There are so many other things to get upset about in the world computers are not one of them.

ps. at the beginning of your first post you mentioned you upgraded the bios of your machine:- I think there maybe a hint there somewhere.you should only ever upgrade your bios really if you experiencing issues or need new features not because there is a new version.

Everyone on here is willing to help but also everyone is willing to protect their favourite distro as well.

Regards

Todders
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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby GrayWizardLinux on Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:12 pm

well said Todds!!!
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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby deadguy on Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:44 pm

Very well said indeed!!!! 8)
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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby gollum1971 on Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:55 pm

Daryna didn't work for me on 2 points, Printer and External Hard Drive.

Now although I did find solutions for these probs, I made a decision to stick with Celena until either a newer version that works comes out, or my knowledge of Linux improves.

As the great Husse says, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it, If you can't fix it don't break it"

Do whats best for you and your pc, reset your bios and go back to Celena !

Mint is a great distro.

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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby sundayrefugee on Fri Nov 23, 2007 7:09 pm

You're really mad because you chose a free car, instead of buying one, and you've found that it's impossible for a volunteer car-maker to design a part that fits every single car on earth without modification. In addition, the gearshift is too far away for your taste, and instead of finding out how to place it where you'd like, you'd rather flame the volunteer car-maker whose free car you chose.

Sorry. Having trouble manufacturing tears for you.

Go back to Windows, and sort out THOSE messes.

I'd be happy to help you when you actually want help, and not to rant and flame Linux in general, and Clem in particular.
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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby constantine768 on Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:37 am

I dont know whether I am enoughy old with LINUX using to say something here..
My only say is that when Linux started it started as an Hobby which created a revolution unknowingly.

SO when different distributions came into existence it meant different people from different communities with different levels of intelligence and understanding came into existence to create their own sets of OS releases..

So its up to you to choose which one you want..rather than curse or blame the creators or enhancers for that matter..

I am a 24 year old guy from India who never used Linux but started using it recently when I bought a laptop from my own money.
It came with a PI vista which other that some effects and some new additional capabilities was nothing more than an XP..

Then I decided to try Linux knowing that I am totally new to this and this would mean my current good going desktop might go dead..and thats what happened..
There was a time I could boot Vista, Mint 3 and SuSe and then there was time when my Lappy went dead as ice.

But I think it was my decision to choose Mint... even if Portal says Desktop ready OS... So I would nt blame anyone..
When you say Desktop ready OS it means that it will give you things to do which you would be rather doing in Windows..
But it does not promise you things will be exactly same.

So Christof999, if you want these guys to act on things then rather than blaming Mint add your "Step by Step" responses what failed and why failed..So somebody can help.
But expecting them to give something that makes you WoW exactly the same way as in Windows(but with less heat and cpu usage and more 3d effects) is not at all the way..

P.S.: I installed daryna today and with one go it went through.no hassless.
I did not try wireless..It might not even work...but I will let this know rather than making a fuss about it..
I hope i did not offend anybody.If I did I am sorry.
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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby saltyp on Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:49 am

Finally to address your point that if one buys a pre-installed computer it will work without flaws, well that is simply hogwash. I have in the past bought pre-installed systems and had to do much maintenance and tweaking on them. Sometimes it would take a month or two, but things would inevitably break and I would without a doubt eventually be reaching for the restore disks.


That is a fair point. Sent six HP laptops back a week ago that had no USB support, despite my efforts at rebuilding the windows stack and attempting third party configs.

If you want to gripe about hardware support, speak to anyone with Vista and a high end gaming rig with top notch sound card and video card. Lack of drivers and drops in FPS must be freaking people out that have actually spent money on the latest bestest gaming mutimedia OS. Again I will stand by my first point. Install what you want at home. Punish it and screw it up and fix it fifty times all for free. Get the next one and fix it forty times. In business.....dont bother. The turtle and the hare.

P.S.: I installed daryna today and with one go it went through.no hassless.
I did not try wireless..It might not even work...but I will let this know rather than making a fuss about it..
I hope i did not offend anybody.If I did I am sorry.



None taken constantine, welcome aboard. Daryna worked for me too.
if it aint broken....dont let me near it
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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby RSimpson on Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:50 pm

sundayrefugee wrote:You're really mad because you chose a free car, instead of buying one, and you've found that it's impossible for a volunteer car-maker to design a part that fits every single car on earth without modification. In addition, the gearshift is too far away for your taste, and instead of finding out how to place it where you'd like, you'd rather flame the volunteer car-maker whose free car you chose.

Sorry. Having trouble manufacturing tears for you.


I don't exactly agree with Christof999, but I've stuck with 3.1 for now. There seem to be some significant bugs with very common systems that existed in the previous version, were marked "solved", and are still present in 4.0 - in addition to the new ones. It isn't a big deal for me to fix the ones I've already dealt with before in previous versions, but it's hardly user-friendly. I suppose it doesn't help that Gutsy is a bug fest. Anyways, I've donated to Linux Mint and would happily chip in some cash for bug fixes, so I didn't choose a free (as in beer, anyway) car. Maybe some sort of "bounty"?
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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby sundayrefugee on Tue Nov 27, 2007 6:25 am

Aye, mate :lol:

Gutsy, for the most part, doesn't work for me. I had nothing but problem after problem after problem.... It seems to work for alot of people, though, and alot of people appreciate the hard work that went into it. It's one reason I am so surprised that Mint 4.0 DOES work, flawlessly, on my machine :shock: If it mattered enough to me to run Gutsy, I would research on my own, and respectfully ask those who donate thier time and effort ;-) Instead of the "Clem and his band of geeks all suck, Linux sucks, Mint sucks in particular, and this is why MS will always own the world", venemous rant that was supposed to pass for some plea for "help".
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Re: I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0

Postby clem on Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:01 pm

Sorry to abuse my moderation super-powers but I've seen this topic one-too-many times and I just can't take the three typos in it. I'm changing the title from "I have ton say I am dissapointed with 4.0" to "I have to say I am disappointed with 4.0".

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Re: I have to say I am disappointed with 4.0

Postby todds on Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:26 pm

Clem
thanks for changing it,I thought i was the only one who noticed :-)

regards

Todds
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Re: I have to say I am disappointed with 4.0

Postby newW2 on Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:44 pm

I figured this is one of those double sided issues. You hate to see this type of whining take place, but it brings forum members who like / love this distro together to deal with something as a group. Like team building. :twisted:
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Re: I have to say I am disappointed with 4.0

Postby smelph on Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:00 pm

while i don't have anything constructive to add to the technical discussion, I do want to say I am extremely satisfied with mint 4.0. I am a complete noob to linux systems, but because of how smoothly this OS works I am happy to say I haven't booted XP in about 6 days (I've had mint for just over a week now). not sure if I just got lucky or something, but I am loving my computer right now, which is something I couldn't have said for the last couple years.

thank you mint team!
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Re: I have to say I am disappointed with 4.0

Postby BakUp on Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:10 pm

smelph wrote:not sure if I just got lucky or something


I assure you it was not luck, for most of us it just runs fantastic out of the box !

What a great job Clem has done.......
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sidux - Parsix - DreamLinux - Mint
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