i want to triple boot

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i want to triple boot

Postby iamclueless on Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:13 pm

just a quick yes or no answer

id like to triple boot another linux distro (Puppy frugal install)

my understanding would be to aptget gedit

then gedit menu.lst

and then insert the lines needed to access the Puppy partition

am i right?

thanks
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby linuxviolin on Sun Jan 06, 2008 4:34 pm

iamclueless wrote:then gedit menu.lst

and then insert the lines needed to access the Puppy partition

am i right?

Yes. To be precise it is 'sudo gedit /boot/grub/menu.list' you need to type :wink:
But why do you want to do 'aptget gedit'? gedit is already installed... :roll:
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"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby Fred on Sun Jan 06, 2008 5:23 pm

The simple answer, as s/he said, is YES. You can use kate if one of the installed distros is KDE. If you are using Puppy you can use whatever text editor is the default in the version you are running. They had several depending on what version you have. Having said that you don't need to install gedit. Any text editor you have available will do fine to edit the file s/he referred you to.

Enjoy!

Fred
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby muskratmx on Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:20 am

Yes you can triple boot / muiltiple boot as many times as you like.

I have 6 different linux distros on this box.

There is a couple of things you need to understand first.

First every install script is slightly different. Some use LiLo some use Grub, some allow you to choice where to put the boot loader, on the mbr or first sector of the root partition or floppy, others don't give you a choice they just nail the mbr.

Second which every linux distro was the last to install on the mbr is in control of the boot loader, you can of course restore your pervious grub from your frist install.

For example. I have debian in control of my grub. When I do another install, if it nails my mbr without choice, I use knoppix live cd to restore my mbr back to debian. If it gives me a choice I choose to install bootloader to partion or floppy. Which saves me from restoring my mbr.

Of course you could just let the last install control grub, but there is a downside to that. You have to add every other install to menu.lst every time. Instead of just adding one each time. Also if you have some pretty splash sences they might not work with some grub installs due to frame buffer issues.

I believe Puppy is one of those installs that just nails the mbr without giving the user a choice. I could be mistaken.
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby Chi on Sat Jan 12, 2008 3:15 am

Quick answer: Yes possible

Suggestion: Load bootloaders from subsequent Linux installs on to the partition you install the distro. Then chainload from original grub install (or any other bootloader for that matter).

Example of altered Grub for chainloading (obviously changing 0 and 6 to the appropriate hd/partition):
Code: Select all
title Linux @ hda7
root (hd0,6)
chainloader +1


This has many advantages:
    Can change bootloader/distos easily
    Don't have to remember different different distro kernel configurations and can even use lilo & grub distros
    Can boot Windows, Linux, BSD, Solaris with the same three lines

PS: nano is an excellent editor for changing config files. Comes with standard Mint install.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby Fred on Sat Jan 12, 2008 10:16 am

muskratmx,

The reason I often recommend Puppy linux to do maintenance tasks, especially to new linux users is several fold. But I will be the first to admit there are literally 100's of ways to get things done in linux. Personal preference is the key.

Things I like about Puppy as a tool kit:

1. Can be run totally in ram. The operating system doesn't have to touch the hard disk or, once loaded, even need the cd drive. It won't touch the hard drive at all, even the swap partition or the mbr, unless you tell it to. This has big advantages at times as well as being very fast.

2. Out of the box, it can recognize, read, and write reliably to all the variates of windows file systems including ntfs as well as to linux file systems.

3. It will boot from almost any computer. I have heard of computers that won't boot from it but never seen one myself that wouldn't boot and run it.

4. It has a full operating system gui, reminiscent of windows, which makes it windows user friendly, unlike a lot of special purpose tool kits.

5. Because it is a full linux operating system with gui, you have access to the web through the browser of your choice and to other network resources from within puppy, so you don't have to leave puppy to research or download something.

6. For the more experienced, you can add just about any special purpose tool or program you wish to it, remove stuff you don't want/need, and easily remaster. You then have your own personalized tool kit.

I am sure there are a few more things that I can't think of right now, but I think I made my point. :-)

Bottom line is: Use what you feel most comfortable with.

Have a nice day,

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby Chi on Sat Jan 12, 2008 8:36 pm

Agree with Fred about having a remasterable toolkit.

Since it is personal preference (though I know that Fred has helped other fix things with Puppy) my choice has been Slax since all you have to do is add modules to remaster.
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby muskratmx on Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:34 am

When I commented about Puppy, I wasn't talking about the system running, I was taking about the installer script. And I could be mistaken. But I do know some of those install scripts from the Live CDs don't give you a choice as to where it installs the boot loader, and so it can miss you up. I can't remimber about Puppy's install script.

As for PC's that won't boot Puppy I've had a couple so there are some out there.

I like Puppy but it's not my favorite, I use knoppix for most of my rescue work.

I was trying out lite weight Live CD's and Puppy was running neck and neck with DSL until we got to the HD install, which also went neck to neck in my ranking. But DSL won out for one simple reason. Puppy runs as root full time.

As a live CD that's great, with small or no ill effects. if your system gets compromised, just reboot and your back to a clean system. But as an HD install, with other distros doing a muilti boot, if Puppy were to be compromised, there is a chance all your other distros installed could be compromised also, because of Puppy's running as Root.

That's why DSL won out in my ranking. They use sudo like Knoppix. DSL also has a install script that dosen't give you to many choices as to where or how the boot loader is installed.
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby Fred on Fri Jan 18, 2008 10:38 am

muskratmx,

I would have to agree with most of your observations. In my case, however, I only run Puppy from a cd as a tool kit. So the fact that it automatically runs in root is a convenience rather than a potential problem. It is not a distro I would consider running from the hard drive. For repairing or configuring grub, I have been using a separate grub routine, not the script that comes with puppy. I, like you, find it a bit clunky. I have been introduced recently to Supergrub. It looks like it might be a better tool than I have been using, at least it appears to be easier. Haven't formed a firm opinion yet though.

Have a nice day,

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby muskratmx on Mon Jan 21, 2008 9:23 am

I downloaded and burned Super Grub, but haven't used it as yet, except for a cursory look. I looks promising.
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby Chi on Mon Jan 21, 2008 3:44 pm

I have found supergrub very useful to recovery systems. I have gone from that blood draining from your face feeling to a running system in record time. :D
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby yamawho on Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:53 pm

I've been reading the thread with interest.

I have an 80GGB hdd with XP using 30GB and Mint taking up the rest.
I was considering getting a 500GB hdd and use Acronis True Image 10 to clone the 80 to the 500.
I can't remember how that will turn out. I know if I make an image of the 80GB hdd then restore it on the 500, I will end up with about 400GB of unallocated space. If I clone it uses up the whole hdd but which OS will gobble up the 400+ GB's ?

Anyway, I was pondering two options;

1 - If I wanted to install a 3rd OS like Mint KDE or suse, what is the easiest method ?

2 - Also, with the extra space available I would like the XP, MAC and Linux OS's have access.
FAT32 does not allow 4GB ISO files so what other format should I consider that all three could read and write to ?
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby Fred on Thu Jan 24, 2008 2:44 am

yamawho,

My first question would be, are you planning to keep the 80 gig drive in the system with the new 500 gig drive. That would be your easiest way out.

I am not familiar with the program you referred to for the cloning chore, so I can't say what it will do with the rest of the 500 gig drive. It may partition the rest off. I just don't know.

I don't know how windows handles uuid, if at all. You will have uuid problems with mint when you try to move it to another drive or partition. This is not a problem that can't be delt with but it is a problem. You will also have to redo your grub installation and adjust your grub menu. This also can be delt with, but again it is a problem.

If you can keep your 80 gig drive as it is and just add the 500 gig unit as another drive that would be the easiest by far.

You can set up a shared partition on the big drive in ntsf format. These days almost all of the more popular distros read and write to ntsf files. This also gets you around the 4 gig limit in fat 32.

You can use part of the big drive to install other distros at your leisure.

Hope this helped a little.

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby yamawho on Thu Jan 24, 2008 10:24 am

Thanks for the response Fred.

I have used Acronis True Image to move windows to a new hdd or to restore an image to the same hdd for years.
I know that it will also does Linux partitions but I have never tested it myself.
A new option in True Image 11 is the ability to make an image that doesn't include chipset and other drivers.
This would give the ability to restore an OS to another system using a different motherboard or even switch from AMD to Intel systems.

I was planing to swap out the 80GB hdd but your suggestion of leaving it in got me thinking ...
If the 500 was not bootable and had a few partitions maybe in FAT32 & NTFS, this would give me the option to remove the hdd and install it in another system. This way I could image those systems on this hdd. I guess the only issue might be the jumper that regulates whether it runs in Sata1 or Sata2. To keep it simple I could leave it that Sata1.

Getting back to the grub issue, couldn't I just make a copy of the existing grub setting and copy them over after installing another OS ? I see an option on the boot menu that has boot to another OS ...
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby Fred on Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:24 am

yamawho,

As I said in my earlier post, I don't know the cloning program you refer to so I would leave that to your better judgment as to how well it will clone to another drive.

As far as the grub issues, these will result from calling the operating system from a different drive from the one it was originally installed on.

Example: Lets say you have Windows and Mint 4 installed on a drive. Windows on the first partition and Mint 4 on the second partition, both booting from the Mint 4 menu chain loading for Windows. If you move both to a another drive by cloning you may or may not have to restore the MBR, depending on the cloning program you use. If you didn't clone to the first and second partition, and place it in the position of the first hard drive, as you had it set up on the original first hard drive, you would have to change the hard drive and partition line in the "menu.lst" file for the loader to be called. Even if you used the same partitions, you would also have to correct the UUID for the Mint 4 boot. You would also need to change the UUID in "/etc/fstab" file so Mint 4 would be able to see the new setup.

I hope this is helpful and wasn't too confusing. Sometimes I am not very good at explaining things.

Enjoy, :-)

Fred
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over and each time expecting a different result.

Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on the menu. Liberty is an armed lamb protesting the electoral outcome. A Republic negates the need for an armed protest.
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby yamawho on Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:25 am

Here are the results of Acronis True Image tests;

If the clone option is selected from 80GB to 500GB, it will leave the swap partition the same size but the XP and Mint partitions will be increased to occupy the rest of the space. In other words, zero unallocated space left.

If you do a backup of the 80GB hdd to another then restore the image to the 500GB hdd, it will keep the XP, MInt and swap partitions the original size and I will end up with 391GB of unallocated space left.
I used this option and when I installed the new 500GB hdd instead of the 80GB it replaced, it booted like usual without issues.

Now ... what to do with that 391GB of unallocated space left :mrgreen:
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Re: i want to triple boot

Postby muskratmx on Mon Feb 18, 2008 2:44 pm

Now ... what to do with that 391GB of unallocated space left


There again that's your personal needs and wants.

If it were mine, I'd set aside 100gb for data partition with no OS on it then chop up the rest for installs of different distros.

There is one catch I ran into. Some bios and/or grub won't boot past a certain point on those big drives. For example I have a Pen.III which I put a 160gb chopped into 20gb segments, I had to backup and add a boot folder because I couldn't boot past about 80gb. the tail end wouldn't boot up.
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