Create personal data partition both Mint and Win can access?

[gumby]

I'm going to install Mint tomorrow on my new laptop. I want to dual boot with windows until i'm comfortable enough with linux to throw Windows away. But it occurs to me...when creating these partitions during the Mint installation, is there a way to create a separate partition for your personal data files so that, if you later erase the OS and install another, you don't have to erase your personal files? Also such a partition should ideally allow your personal files to be accessible by both OS...Mint and WIndows...whichever you happen to be using at the time.

Sorry if the answer is obvious...but i didn't see any information about creating a personal data partition in any of the dual boot tutorials I read today. It seems only logical. Is there a way to do this? Or is it the normal procedure to save personal files on a different partition than the OS?

Also, I know nothing about partitioning, but my new computer has a 250 GB hard drive which came from the factory already partitioned into C, D and E drives. Would it be a good idea to just use those partitions as the Windows, Linux and Personal Data partitions, rather than create new ones?

Also, can partitions be re-sized later, or deleted?

Thanks for any help.

[proxima_centauri]

gumpy,

Yes, it is possible to set up a partition for personal files. Most users do this by setting up a partition for "/" (system files, ~10GB), and "/home" (personal/configuration files, however big you want it to be).
If you format with the default ext3, you can view this information in Windows using the ext2 IFS software. (If you do use it, it is strongly recommended to use it only when needed and never write back to your ext3 partition from Windows. However, you can safely read and write to your Windows drive from Linux.

Hard to say about the paritions already on your laptop, would need to know whats on them. Probably a backup partition, windows partition, and data partition?

You can always modify your harddrive's partitions, the can be deleted, reformatted, re-sized.

[Fred]

I am sorry proxima_centauri, but I am going to have to disagree with you on this one.

@gumpy,

I would suggest you create a ext3 partition of about 12 Gig for your / and a swap partition about 1 1/2 X your installed RAM. If the sum of your installed RAM and swap is over 3.5 Gig. then I would reduce the swap size to the same size as your RAM.

Don't create a separate /home partition. Instead create a NTFS partition for your data. You can then access it easily from either the Windows install or the Linux install. If you up grade or change your Linux install you won't have to touch your data partition. The same goes for the Windows install.

Do not ever use a driver or program in Windows that allows access to your Linux install. Windows doesn't respect Linux permissions. Allowing Windows read/write access to your Linux install destroys your securiety on Linux.

Fred

[proxima_centauri]

Fred,
I agree that a seperate NTFS partition would be safer in terms of personal data being used by both Windows and Linux frequently; however, wouldn't a seperate partition for /home, (even if quite modest) be a good idea for future upgrades/installs?

[rlindsey0]

I don't know nearly as much as these guys, but what I did on a recent install, following (what I think was) Husse's advice, was not to make a separate /home partition, but just to make a separate data partition (called "Data") that I then asked the Partition Manager to mount in /home/<myname>/Data. Essentially what Fred just said, but I formatted mine as ext3. I imagine if you format yours as NTFS, as Fred suggested, that might accomplish what you want. If you ever have to do a reinstall, or a new Linux install, you can just tell the installer NOT to format the data partition, but to go ahead and install in another partition. This way your data will not be touched.

I do have XP SP3 on my computer as well, but I don't give it access to my Linux data partition (haven't really needed to, because I only use Windows for a couple things that are impractical or impossible in Linux, like iTunes . For any exchange of data between XP and Mint, I usually prefer to make use of an outboard Seagate USB drive that's formatted to NTFS. Come to think of it, is that an option for you?

[gumby]

Thanks. I'm still digesting these replies, because I have never done this before and don't know what "ext3", "/" and such terms are all about. I do like RLindsey's suggestion because it sounds simplest, and I understand it. I, too, think I will only be using Windows a little bit, so it would be easy to save the files from that work to a flash drive and then transfer them to the Mint installation.

What I'd like to know, is, is this easy to do? Is creating a "data" partition the default choice in the installation, or do you have to do it manually? I'd much prefer that it be done automatically, as otherwise it will get too complicated and technical for me. Do most users create a data partition? It seems like a logical thing to do, as everybody is going to be reinstalling the OS as new versions are released.

As for the C,D and E logical drives (they're not really partitions I guess) that now exist on my HD, they are mostly empty, with everything on the C drive. Maybe it would not be a good idea to use them as individual Windows, Linux and Data partitions, because perhaps that means the hard drive would have to work harder, compared to them all being on one logical drive? Right now I have way more space on the HD than I will need in the forseeable future. Maybe it's best to make all the partitions on C?

C has 39 GB, D and E each have about 97. Actually, I might fill up 39 GB relatively soon, so maybe I put the Windows and Linux partitions on C, and data on D?

Thanks again everyone for your help.

[gumby]

This post was not accurate but I can't delete it so I'm overwriting it.

[DataMan]

What I'd like to know, is, is this easy to do? Is creating a "data" partition the default choice in the installation, or do you have to do it manually? I'd much prefer that it be done automatically, as otherwise it will get too complicated and technical for me. Do most users create a data partition? It seems like a logical thing to do, as everybody is going to be reinstalling the OS as new versions are released.

As for the C,D and E logical drives (they're not really partitions I guess) that now exist on my HD, they are mostly empty, with everything on the C drive. Maybe it would not be a good idea to use them as individual Windows, Linux and Data partitions, because perhaps that means the hard drive would have to work harder, compared to them all being on one logical drive? Right now I have way more space on the HD than I will need in the forseeable future. Maybe it's best to make all the partitions on C?

C has 39 GB, D and E each have about 97. Actually, I might fill up 39 GB relatively soon, so maybe I put the Windows and Linux partitions on C, and data on D?

1. No the "Data" partition is not created automatically when you install. A lot of people just use the "/home" directory (folder) to store data.
2. When you install Linux, it will (at a minimum) create 1 partition formatted to ext3 and one partition formatted as swap. The ext3 partition will hold all of you operating system folders and contents. Additionally one folder will be called /home. This is where your application settings etc. are stored. There are also default folders for documents, etc. Again a lot of people use them for data storage.
3. As far as sharing data between a Windows ops and you Linux, we have a lot of options available to you. For example, if you are going to share data between your Linux PC and a Windows PC on your local network, we have a utility called SAMBA which is made for this type of environment. Folders shared by SAMBA to a Windows PC aren't format sensitive. I have several folders that are ext3 format that I'm sharing via SAMBA to my wife's XP box and it works quite well.

If you are going to share internally (within your PC) then you can have the source partition formatted to NTFS, ext3 or FAT32. There are utilities available on the Windows side to enable you to mount ext3 partitions for read/write in Windows. FAT32 is universally readable by both ops. You do have a size limitation factor with FAT32 of a max size of around 4G. NTFS is totally readable by both environments.

4. When you install Linux, you have several options for installation. You can install covering the whole hard drive. This will wipe out anything that is installed on the H/D. You can let the installation use the available free space ( I think it looks at un-allocated space). The last option (the ONLY way I will install an operating system) is to manually configure your installation partitions. The reason I'm such a big fan of the manual configuration is that I have, over the years, seen so many users really mess things up during the installation because they either did not pay attention to what they were doing or did not understand the consequences. If you are interested in going manual partition install, post back and assistance will be provided.

My overall recommendation is to get through the basic installation and startup first. Once that is accomplished:
1. Get a copy of GParted Live.
2. Build your Data Partition.
3. Makes some light modifications to some files in your LInux so you can auto mount the Data partition at bootup.
4. Do similar actions on the Windows side.
5. Populate and Data partition.

DataMan

p.s. For my personal financial and related data, I NEVER store that data on any PC. It is only stored on a removable usb thumb drive which is stored in a secure location.

[Decemberdoom]

Well... I've skimmed through this topic, and no one has really suggested what I am currently doing so...

Basically I created a seperate ~50GB partition in FAT32. Before you go ranting on about FAT32, I'll explain myself. Basically, Windows can read/write without any trouble (It IS a native FS, so...) and Linux cal also read and write without any trouble at all. Especially considering the fact that Linux is versatile and can read and write from just about anything, while Windows can be extremely glitchy with the ext2/3 drivers, I think it makes more sense to just format a partition with a M$ FS.

[pluraldave]

It is easier to create and mount the data partition during the install as it saves you having to play around with gparted and fstab after. All that's needed after install is a chown -R to specify the owner (and possibly chmod).

@Grumby: You can't put the Windows and Linux systems on the same partition. If you've got C,D,E partitions with WIndows on C then your best bet is to delete D and E and then create new partitions that are the sizes and filetypes you want. Have a read of my post in this thread and see if you can understand all the steps in it. If you post a screenshot of your partition table, either from Gparted in the Mint LiveCD or from Vista's own partition manager (I'm guessing from the HDD drive size it's Vista you have) we can help give you specific advice on what to do with your partitions. (Also your amount of RAM for calculating swap space.)

How are you using up your C drive at the moment? If the 39 GB is being used up by programs only (Is Vista that bad?) you might want to consider extending the partition, if it's being used by data then you probably want to move things overto your data partition(s) afterwards.

[Fred]

proxima_centauri,

... wouldn't a separate partition for /home, (even if quite modest) be a good idea for future upgrades/installs?

Well, using a separate /home partition is the traditional way of isolating data, but think about it a second. If you use a separate data partition, what is the advantage of having a separate /home partition? The only thing that would be residing on your /home partition would be a few configuration files and mounting folders and/or symlinks. Hardly enough, in my opinion, to warrant a separate partition. Also, the myth of a painless, trouble free upgrade or distro change reusing your old /home is just that, a myth. If you have lots of data in your /home folder, it is better than not having a separate partition, but it isn't a panacea either. Just look at the problems and questions that crop up just in this forum about this issue around new release time. I can assure you that an upgrade will be a lot less painful if you have a dedicated data partition and have copied your config files over to that partition before you up grade. Then make a clean install and move the config files you want to keep back to your new home. Basically, my contention is that your data is safer on its' own partition than anywhere in your OS install. Having said that, if you have a Data partition, ie no data in your /home, then you don't need a separate partition for your /home. That is my reasoning anyway.

As far as Data sharing between OSs goes, Another poster put it pretty well. It is better to use a MS formatted partition for data sharing on a local machine. I would choose NTFS as a shared filed system since Mint now has pretty solid out-of-the-box support for it. I would choose samba for a network. Under no circumstances would I let Windows have access to my Linux system files through some kind of Windows software. If you do you have just thrown your securiety out the window. You may as well post your sudo or root password on a public forum, along with your IP and the time of day you will have the machine turned on, for all to see and have.


@gumby,

As you can see with just a taste of this thread, partitioning can be a contentious topic. You will find that everybody seems to have their own ideas as far as what is "right" and "wrong." You will get suggestions that border on the preposterous, they just don't know any better, to extremely practical and well thought out. It will be up to you to evaluate the approach that best meets your needs.

Fred

[gumby]

1. No the "Data" partition is not created automatically when you install. A lot of people just use the "/home" directory (folder) to store data.

Since I'm a Linux newbie and don't even know basic Linux commands, and have never partitioned a hard drive in my life, perhaps I should just do what others do and store data in the home directory, at least until I know more about using Linux. If that will make the installation easier for me.

If you are interested in going manual partition install, post back and assistance will be provided.

I was wondering if it's possible to get assistance DURING the installation. I just made a new post about this. Is Live CD still running and usable during the installation, so I can use the browser to seek assistance if I am confused -- using the same computer that I'm installing Mint on?

[gumby]

It is easier to create and mount the data partition during the install as it saves you having to play around with gparted and fstab after. All that's needed after install is a chown -R to specify the owner (and possibly chmod).

But I'm a total newb and don't even know what "chown" and "chmod" mean!

@Grumby: You can't put the Windows and Linux systems on the same partition. If you've got C,D,E partitions with WIndows on C then your best bet is to delete D and E and then create new partitions that are the sizes and filetypes you want.

Thanks. But C, D and E are not partitions, they are the logical drives that the 250 GB HD is divided into. I don't know the latest technical stuff about Windows but remember from the old days that in WIndows HDs have to be divided into smaller logical drives due to the requirements of Windows (or is this a relic of DOS?)

Have a read of my post in this thread and see if you can understand all the steps in it. If you post a screenshot of your partition table, either from Gparted in the Mint LiveCD or from Vista's own partition manager (I'm guessing from the HDD drive size it's Vista you have) we can help give you specific advice on what to do with your partitions. (Also your amount of RAM for calculating swap space.)

How are you using up your C drive at the moment? If the 39 GB is being used up by programs only (Is Vista that bad?) you might want to consider extending the partition, if it's being used by data then you probably want to move things overto your data partition(s) afterwards.

No, it's XP, not Vista. My HD is like almost totally empty. C drive has 39 GB with 34 GB free space. D and E each have about 97 GB. D and E are both totally empty, 100% free space.

I haven't moved all my old data files onto the new laptop yet, that's why there's so much free space. I have 1 GB of RAM

[proxima_centauri]

Gumby,

You should be able to use Firefox while installing, it will probably be slow though.
Also, check out the IRC Chat in the menu, it defaults to the Mint channel where someone might be able to help you in real-time.

[gumby]

Thanks Proxima, that will help a lot.

Hey, is this relevant? "Move Home To Its Own Partition": http://www.linuxmint.com/wiki/index.php ... _partition

What user wants to wipe all of his personal data files every time there's an upgrade to Mint? It really seems that a separate data partition is the right way to do this. But unless the install CD helps a newbie to do it, it sounds too difficult. Perhaps the Install CD should make this a standard default option?

[gumby]

Well, I think it will be too difficult for me to attempt to create a separate data partition during the install, unless I have clear step by step instructions that don't assume prior knowledge of Linux. But even if I don't make a separate data partition now, why can't I just put all my data files outside the Linux partition somewhere so they won't get wiped when I reinstall or upgrade?

Assume that the install CD recommends I make a Mint partition on Drive D. Okay, but the partition need not take up the entire space of D. Can I put only the Linux OS and apps in the partition but put my data folders and files outside the partition, though still on Drive D, so they won't get wiped? Can Mint still access these data folders quickly and easily even though they aren't in the Mint partition?

I remember I did something similar the last time I reinstalled Windows, though it involved logical drives, not partitions. I had Windows on C and my data files on D. At the install, I was able to reformat only Drive C, not D, then installed Windows on C. It worked. My data files didn't get wiped.

[Decemberdoom]

I think I understand what you're talking about now. You can make an NTFS, or FAT32 partition on Drive D, then when you do the install, select manual for the partitioning. Click on the new NTFS/FAT32 partition you made, then click on edit.

From here, keep everything the same, but under "mount point" select something. (If it is an NTFS/FAT32 partition, then the two options will be "/windows" or /dos" either one is fine). Now, in the partition you want to install Linux, click on it, select edit, and set the mount-point to "/".

By doing this, you will get the following results.

Linux and apps will install to the Linux Partition, kept separate from everything else, while your empty NTFS/FAT32 partition will be automatically mounted each time you start Linux as /windows , or /dos . You'll be able to access only the NTFS/FAT32 partition of your Drive D: while in Windows.

Now, if you need to upgrade stuff, all your personal data will not be touched, regardless if you upgrading Windows or Linux.Since all of your personal data is on a totally separate partition from where Linux would be upgrading. Hope this helps.

[gumby]

I think I understand what you're talking about now. You can make an NTFS, or FAT32 partition on Drive D,

No I can't. I have never made a partition, don't know how, and don't have any partitioning software. When I install Mint, it will be the first time I've ever consciously made partitions

Also, I'm not sure I want to use WIndows file systems like FAT and NTFS, as I plan to be phasing Windows out as I learn Linux. I've heard that the Linux file system is better and doesn't fragment.

then when you do the install, select manual for the partitioning. Click on the new NTFS/FAT32 partition you made, then click on edit.

From here, keep everything the same, but under "mount point" select something. (If it is an NTFS/FAT32 partition, then the two options will be "/windows" or /dos" either one is fine). Now, in the partition you want to install Linux, click on it, select edit, and set the mount-point to "/".

By doing this, you will get the following results.

Linux and apps will install to the Linux Partition, kept separate from everything else, while your empty NTFS/FAT32 partition will be automatically mounted each time you start Linux as /windows , or /dos . You'll be able to access only the NTFS/FAT32 partition of your Drive D: while in Windows.

I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that Windows will also be able to access this data partition? Or are you saying that Windows won't be able to access anything but the data...i.e., won't be able to access Linux system files?

Now, if you need to upgrade stuff, all your personal data will not be touched, regardless if you upgrading Windows or Linux.Since all of your personal data is on a totally separate partition from where Linux would be upgrading. Hope this helps.

That's the idea. I have about 20 Gigs of personal data, encrypted container files and stuff that I need to move to my new computer and make accessible to the new Mint installation. But does this data need to be in its own partition? Can't it just be in free space on D? Is the advantage of your procedure that it will be "automatically mounted" when I run Mint? Is that a big advantage?

[Decemberdoom]

No I can't. I have never made a partition, don't know how, and don't have any partitioning software. When I install Mint, it will be the first time I've ever consciously made partitions

Also, I'm not sure I want to use WIndows file systems like FAT and NTFS, as I plan to be phasing Windows out as I learn Linux. I've heard that the Linux file system is better and doesn't fragment.

Making partitions really isn't very difficult, but I recommend you do it before installing. Boot up Mint in a Live-CD session, and go to

Menu>Administration>Partition Editor

This will bring up Gparted, probably the best (imo) there is, since it's relatively easy to use, and simply displays everything in an easy to read format. What you will want to do, is select your partition on drive D (I'm assuming it's all one partition) and click on "Resize". Then select however much space you want on your data partition. It will come up as "unallocated", for simplicity's sake, leave it like that for now. You can change the FS type during the actual Mint install.

And indeed, you are correct, the Linux File Systems are generally faster, more reliable, and do not need to be fragmented, but, if you want to be able to access your files from Windows without installing any experimental extxx drivers, then you should choose a Microsoft FS, just for simplicity's sake. Either way, the choice is yours. It depends on how much you will be using Windows, and how important it is to you to be able to access those files while working under Windows.

I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that Windows will also be able to access this data partition? Or are you saying that Windows won't be able to access anything but the data...i.e., won't be able to access Linux system files?

As long as you format it as NTFS or FAT32 (or FAT16, but theres really no reason for that), Windows and Linux can read and write to the data partition. Windows won't be able to access any Linux system files, because you'd probably want to install those under a Linux FS, unless you install the special extxx drivers.

That's the idea. I have about 20 Gigs of personal data, encrypted container files and stuff that I need to move to my new computer and make accessible to the new Mint installation. But does this data need to be in its own partition? Can't it just be in free space on D? Is the advantage of your procedure that it will be "automatically mounted" when I run Mint? Is that a big advantage?

No files can really be on a disk drive that is not partitioned. So they can't just be in "free space" on the disk, because there isn't any OS (that I'm aware of) that can read or write to unpartitioned parts of a disk. The data could just as easily be put into your /home/username directory, but if you partition your "D" drive, as a Linux FS, then Windows will not be able to access it.

The advantage to my procedure is that you will be able to access all your personal data files from both of your OS's, and it will be automatically mounted when you start Linux.

Normally, to mount a FS not initially given a mount point, you would have to open up a terminal and type something like this:

mount /dev/sda2 /mnt/win

Basically, by doing my procedure, Linux will automatically edit FSTAB for you (a configuration file that tells Linux which partitions to automatically mount on startup) so your data partition will be there without you having to do any extra work whatsoever.

Hope this is starting to make sense, I'm guessing you're new to Linux, so if you don't understand something, feel free to ask some more.

[gumby]

I think I understand what you're talking about now. You can make an NTFS, or FAT32 partition on Drive D, then when you do the install, select manual for the partitioning. Click on the new NTFS/FAT32 partition you made, then click on edit.

From here, keep everything the same, but under "mount point" select something. (If it is an NTFS/FAT32 partition, then the two options will be "/windows" or /dos" either one is fine).

"Windows" and "DOS" are "mount points"?

Now, in the partition you want to install Linux, click on it, select edit, and set the mount-point to "/".

This confuses me. In the Linux system partition, I will have the root folder, which is called "/" from what I understand. So the new partition for my personal data files...shouldn't this contain the "/home" folder?

See this Ubuntu thread: https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/32233

From that thread:
Choose manual partitioning when the installer gives you the option. The installer will show a list of any pre-existing partitions on your disk. Typically, Windows will have one or two partitions which occupy the whole disk. So, you might find something like this:

1. 20 GB FAT32 or NTFS
2. 230 GB FAT32 or NTFS

Here, partition 1 is drive C: as seen from Windows, and partition 2 is drive D:.

A simple partitioning scheme that then might suit you is as follows.

1. "/windows", FAT32 or NTFS, 20 GB, *DO NOT FORMAT*
2. "/", EXT3, 20 GB
3. "/home", 209 GB
4. swap 1032 MB

N.B. GB = gigabytes, MB = megabytes

Here, the items in quotes (e.g. "/windows") are the names of the directories in each partition.

The order of the partitions on the disk should be as shown above.

For the partition that contains the directory called "/windows", you may need to type the name in the dialogue box, if it is not available from the drop-down menu. This partition is simply the Windows drive C: as seen from the Linux point of view. Adjust the size at this point to 20 GB, or whatever you want. Be careful to ensure that the partition is NOT formatted: deselect the "format" check box.

If you have already made a drive D: partition, as seen from Windows, then this should be wiped out and split into three partitions for Linux. Make the partition that contains the root directory "/" about 20 GB size, in EXT3 format. The root directory is equivalent to a drive Windows drive C: for Linux. Make a separate partition for the "/home" directory equal to the remaining free space on the disc. The swap partition should be slightly larger than the RAM size, as explained previously. In my example, I have assumed that the total disc capacity is 250 GB, and the machine contains 1024 MB of RAM.

By doing this, you will get the following results.

Linux and apps will install to the Linux Partition, kept separate from everything else, while your empty NTFS/FAT32 partition will be automatically mounted each time you start Linux as /windows , or /dos . You'll be able to access only the NTFS/FAT32 partition of your Drive D: while in Windows.

Now, if you need to upgrade stuff, all your personal data will not be touched, regardless if you upgrading Windows or Linux.Since all of your personal data is on a totally separate partition from where Linux would be upgrading. Hope this helps.

You see that on the Ubuntu thread I referenced, he is talking about making the new data partition during the install. You suggest doing it before the install. Is that easier?

Also, a semantic thing: I am assuming that my C, D and E drives are logical drives, but it seems everyone else considers these the same as partitions.