Newbie Trials and Tribulations

Fergus · Post by **Fergus** » Sat May 05, 2007 6:09 pm

Telic,

thanks for that piece of info but i'm certain i have already tried this, and just like then it didn't work.
Husse - its not that i haven't used the search tools, its knowing the correct terms to search for!
Just to clarify my problems i'll post a few pngs of the issues.

This is what happens after log in, when the window manager is just metacity and gdesklets and kiba dock appear. The desklets should be transparent and i've still to find the settings for the background for kiba and to remove the black square from behind the icons in the dock.

Next is what happens when i change the window manager to beryl...

and finally what i see when i open a window.

telic · Post by **telic** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:01 pm

The beryl-manager applet automatically invokes Beryl on my system. I never invoke beryl per se. (Ditto for Compiz, which is automatically invoked by its compiz-tray-icon applet).

From my past tinkerings, I found that blank (white) windows and loss of window decorations can result when Beryl (or Compiz) is invoked more than once after login. This appears to be your case.

Looking at the desktop screenshots you've posted here, I see that Beryl Manager is running even in the first one (its ruby icon is in your taskbar)...

So when you summon beryl, it's actually being invoked a second time. That's a no-no, in my experience. Check that your system doesn't run both beryl-manager and beryl.

Ideally, software should detect if a copy of itself is already running, and gracefully avoid clobbering itself or the system operation.

------

telic · Post by **telic** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:54 pm

In case there's any doubt about what you're trying to do, I just now installed kiba-dock and gdesklets on my Bianca system, which is also running Beryl and nVidia drivers.

For testing, I added a couple of applications to kiba dock (Firefox and kdetv), and tickled its panel background to be green, translucent, and animated. I also put a couple of desklets on the righthand side of the desktop. And I changed the wallpaper to a Mint generic, and put my taskbar at the top of the display.

Altogether, I reckon this took about a half-hour and one ice-cold beer.

Here's a reduced screenshot (the date/time shown is EDT)...

Click image to enlarge

------

Fergus · Post by **Fergus** » Sun May 06, 2007 4:13 am

Damn that ice cold beer.... thats what i forgot!

i tried to preset in the ruby icon in the task manager to beryl then logged off and logged in again - only to find the same problem. I have added beryl manager, gdesklets, and kiba to the session list of startup programs.

I just tried to take them out of the startup list to ensure that i will only invoke them once - and still the same problem. I'm beginning to think i have fudged the driver install, or some linking library.

I think i might just uninstall beryl,kiba and gdesklets and reinstallt hem from scratch. Would you be so kind as to list you steps of installation, mainly where everything came from?
At least then i can mimic you till i find the problem!
(beginning to get a headache since i have still to figure out how to install bluetooth and my 3G card-ugh!)

telic · Post by **telic** » Sun May 06, 2007 4:56 am

Would you be so kind as to list you steps of installation, mainly where everything came from?

I installed Beryl according to the Mint Wiki. I installed Kiba-Dock using the instructions on the page that you've linked to in this thread. And I got gDesklets using the Mint Synaptic repository.

Instead of Beryl, why not try Compiz, which is more stable on some setups? At one point I gave up on Beryl, and found Compiz to better behaved.

(Later, after needing to reinstall Bianca, I loaded nVidia's latest [beta] 100.14.03 drivers, which cured Beryl's glitches on my system).

------

Fergus · Post by **Fergus** » Sun May 06, 2007 3:54 pm

Ok just an update - eventually i got myself into such a fangle that i thought, stuff it i'll reinstall!
Now i follow your procedure roughly and again managed to install the nvidia driver and beryl from the sources state above.

Guess what - still i have the same lack of window buttons! Now i am trying to reconfigure my xserver.xconf as its messed up. Looks like i might be heading for my 3rd re-install as i have been at this for 20 min.

hmmm, think i might start looking for specific d620 users with the nvidia quadro nvs110m

Still no beer for me!

scorp123 · Post by **scorp123** » Sun May 06, 2007 4:30 pm

telic wrote:Ideally, software should detect if a copy of itself is already running, and gracefully avoid clobbering itself or the system operation.

... But we are running a multi-user + multi-tasking operating system

Hence being able to run the same program again and again is not a bug, it's a feature ...

scorp123 · Post by **scorp123** » Sun May 06, 2007 4:35 pm

Fergus wrote:Guess what - still i have the same lack of window buttons!

Can you check your Beryl-icon what Window decorator is selected and/or available? Maybe it's just pre-set to an incorrect default and everything will be cured once you pick the correct one.

In my case I have these choices:

Standard Beryl (Emerald)
Beryl KDE (Aquamarine)
Compiz GTK

If things go wrong hitting the "Reload Window Decorator" option helps too in most cases.

telic · Post by **telic** » Sun May 06, 2007 4:54 pm

scorp123 wrote:
telic wrote:Ideally, software should detect if a copy of itself is already running, and gracefully avoid clobbering itself or the system operation.
... But we are running a multi-user + multi-tasking operating system Hence being able to run the same program again and again is not a bug, it's a feature ...

What you read and what I've actually written here appear to be two different things.

I said that a program should "gracefully avoid clobbering itself or the system operation."

This is especially vital in a multi-tasking, multi-user environment.

-------

scorp123 · Post by **scorp123** » Sun May 06, 2007 5:09 pm

telic wrote:I said that a program should "gracefully avoid clobbering itself or the system operation."

It's a feature

Serious now: You are of course right. "Problematic" apps (e.g. those which ideally should be only run once per system) should be able to check if they are already running. Most usually do this. Seems that Beryl's programmers forgot this feature.

Fergus · Post by **Fergus** » Mon May 07, 2007 4:44 am

Seems that Beryl's programmers forgot this feature.

Being the pessimistic noob - it seems that Beryls programmers forgot a lot of fundamental features!

scorp123 · Post by **scorp123** » Mon May 07, 2007 6:12 am

Fergus wrote: it seems that Beryls programmers forgot a lot of fundamental features!

The opposite is the case ... they probably added too many and forgot to keep an eye on stability, especially in the early releases. This is called "featuritis", when "new cool features" become more important than stability and elimination of bugs.

Fergus · Post by **Fergus** » Mon May 07, 2007 9:34 am

I was thinking.... should i really install all the updates when i first boot?
This means a kernel update from 2.6.17-10 to 2.6.17-11.

I just thinking of all the things that might break.

Featuritis....... ahh and whats the cure Dr Scorp?

Fergus · Post by **Fergus** » Mon May 07, 2007 10:15 am

YEEEEEEEEEEEESSS!

finally i got it!!! My windows have minimise and maximise and all those good buttons!

ok so how did i do it i hear you say?

Firstly.... ignore the little orange start at the startup that prompts you to update(i might try doing this later on advice), next install the nvidia drivers:

1) ctrl-alt-f1
2) sudo envy

follow through till x-server restarts

Next follow the mint wiki on installing beryl, add everything to xorg.conf including the bottom statements relating to the 32bit, but dont add it to your startup just yet.
Funily the xorg.conf was where my problems stemmed from!
Now if you look at section "screen" you will see that the default depth is 16! WHen beryl was running for me i was getting funny statements in the terminal relating to 32bits, so i thought why not change the depth to 24 bits!

Save and restart x-server with ctrl-alt-backspace and what do you know- MOVEABLE WOBBLY WINDOWS!

This is the mint bug and i think i am now infected!

Fergus · Post by **Fergus** » Tue May 08, 2007 5:08 pm

Just a gentle update, for installing HP networked printers, see this website for details

Fergus · Post by **Fergus** » Tue May 08, 2007 6:12 pm

With the good comes the bad....

i paid for crossover office just to have the ability to play with the odd few windows program that i needs.
Everything install great with the exception of the the windows applications folder which should appear on the gnome menu.
Now i realise there has been some clem genius work at creating the mint menu and so its highly likely that is causing the problem. When i go into the menu config i can see the folder and the various applications inside, i move the folder but for some reason the contents will not display.

Any ideas?

p.s. from the last few comments should i install the updates provide annoying notfications in the task bar, not 7.04 of course!

Fergus · Post by **Fergus** » Wed May 09, 2007 1:41 pm

ok... some more developments!

The way i install kiba-dock was baaad, why? Well i have since visited the website since there were i few things with kiba i didn't know how to do.
So i thought i would update to the svn or at least the most stable.
There is a user on the forum that provides thislittle script! Now i cannot uninstall my original installation! Telic since you copied me foolishly, have you any thoughts?

Next is the 3G card i have install on my D620, a good install for both windows (to use other sim cards) and linux is here but i am having problems with the instructions. I'll elaborate later once i have had a play.

thanks!

----------------------------------------------------------------
On going issues:

uninstall kiba-dock
lost menu icons in crossover office
Update bianca with patches but not 7.04?
----------------------------------------------------------------

Fergus · Post by **Fergus** » Wed May 09, 2007 4:01 pm

Just an update, i am getting there with the Kiba-dock. Found some install library issues to solve. There are issues with gaim and their plugins.

With crossover office i have confirmed with lars that the issue with mintmenu and the application icons will be fixed in mintmenu 2.1 which should be in the romeo repositories soon!

My big problem now is that i cannot start bianca with the latest kernel update, Xserver does not start. I need to use the older kernel.

Fergus · Post by **Fergus** » Sat May 12, 2007 1:55 pm

I've managed to fix all problems with updates to the kernel and Xserver with reinstalling nvidia drivers with the help of envy, I decide to keep away from the latest update of envy as this one works.

The more and more i read about cassandra the more i'm leaving bianca behind. I have really enjoyed the learning experience but i can defintely see a reformat to Cassandra when its released.

For the moment, i'll struggle on with bianca:

I'm still trying to figure out kiba dock settings - there is something funny with the script from the website, and i ended up editing the script to remove the gaim pluggins. I also ended up linking libraries to get it to work- pm me if anyone needs help. I still cannot add launchers.... i'm thinking of removing this version and installing the old way again, The only reason i updated was so that i could keep the dock behind the windows.

In the mean time i got the networking side sorted out with windows. I have the odd firewall glitch in the windows side, and i don't know the log in from the the windows side to the mint side, but! I can access the windows shares from mint which is just grand. I love it when clem has taken care of these simple things.

Fergus · Post by **Fergus** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:44 am

I think i mention a few posts back at my intension to get my 3G wireless card running in mint.... here is how!

These instructions are for a Dell latitude D620 using 3G radio, and the Novatel Wireless EU740 internal card - this is a mini-PCI express card that has a USB interface available. I am using the card with 02, a uk cellular operator, but you can find more operator settings here

Firstly you need install kppp from synaptic, and another little useful app called comgt. Download comgt to your \home folder then navigate into it then make and then make install.

Next you need to follow the instructions here, but avoiding any network specific settings and substituting for your own. There are loads of vodafone tutorials about but none for the smaller networks.

Kppp o2 settings:

login ID: mobileweb
password: password

make sure you select the correct modem device, e.g. /dev/ttyUSB0 and not /dev/tty0 - you will be sitting for hours trying to think why it is not working!

the Init String 2 in the modem commands box : AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","mobile.o2.co.uk"

authentication: PAP

These are all the settings a changed, so if you are wanting to adapt this to another network then this should be the basic set.

This method can be applied to other laptops with a built in 3G card, like the precision series, D820, D420, D630, D830 and a few others that will come in the future.

If anyone has found any other methods for achieving the same thing, then please let me know.