Linux is Not Windows

[markcynt]

Another approach is to simply ignore the chatter that is windows, and only present that which is Linux
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/ubu ... ,2293.html

I read that article and thought it was the best Linux article for the masses that I ever read.

[truckerjay]

Nice article. I'm new to linux and want to learn how to make it dance. On the net where is the best place to learn? I have mint7 but plan to dual boot a no frills basic distro to work on to learn.

[dlkreations]

Nice article. I'm new to linux and want to learn how to make it dance. On the net where is the best place to learn? I have mint7 but plan to dual boot a no frills basic distro to work on to learn.

Why dual boot when you can run any distribution you desire in Virtualbox? That way if you by chance bork your virtual machine, you don't take the whole computer down with it.

[smokeymtn_ron]

dlkreations,

I have mint7 but plan to dual boot a no frills basic distro to work on to learn.

I would like to do the same thing.

Why dual boot when you can run any distribution you desire in Virtualbox? That way if you by chance bork your virtual machine, you don't take the whole computer down with it.

Sorry if this a dumb question , is Virtualbox already installed, and how do I put another distro in it? Will this option slow my Mint down? Can you recommend a basic distro with the same things on it as Mint 7 (such as terminal and a few other basics) so I can practice and learn?

[dlkreations]

dlkreations,

Sorry if this a dumb question , is Virtualbox already installed, and how do I put another distro in it? Will this option slow my Mint down? Can you recommend a basic distro with the same things on it as Mint 7 (such as terminal and a few other basics) so I can practice and learn?

This has been said before but I will add it here... the only dumb question is the one not asked... But no, Virtualbox is not install by default.

Your best bet would be to click your menu, and open the terminal. Once you are there, type this:

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sudo apt-get install virtualbox-ose

Insert your password, and it will install Virtualbox for you.

However, if you want the newest one, go to http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Linux_Downloads, choose the link for Jaunty, and click the link for which architecture you have, either 32bit or 64bit; download it and install.

There is a User Manual on their site on how to properly set up Virtualbox for a Linux or Windows OS.

[truckerjay]

Already read that was a great article. IMHO linuxmint is better than windows in many ways. I am an avid Vista hater couldn't wait to get rid of it. Love the community that helps and love that you can work with linux to make it what you want. Of course learning how takes time.

[smokeymtn_ron]

This is why I like Mint so much!! Thanks for the great answers! As soon as I finish writing this I'll give it a try.

I am not sure I understand your reasoning for a stripped down version. It sounds like you already have Mint installed. You could then load the VirtualBox application. Then in that application you could create a machine and load Mint in there. You would be free to experiment to your hearts content on the Mint in the VirtualBox. If things really go bad you could just delete that machine within VirtualBox and start over

absheva,
I think I must have been brain dead yesterday You are right. I was thinking about dual booting instead of virtualbox.

[tacoz]

After working with M$ platforms for so long--as in 1981 when I was asked for DOS support just because I was a COBOL programmer... go figure--when a Mint Live CD came attached with a local magazine I was curious to give it one more try!

Prior to that my first attempt at Linux started when I bought a Caldera CD on-line. It was a frustrating experience and sometime in the second month I reinstalled Windows. However my real transition to Linux started with SUSE 9.1 and over the Christmas holidays of 2004, the upgrade to 9.2 further cemented this transition somewhat. Being Novell users back then, we followed the acquisition of SUSE with some interest and when version 10 of openSUSE became available, I guess my work colleague and I were sold on using Linux but we were still dual-booting with Windows.

I can recall back then we were forever amazed at the interest with Ubuntu. We couldn't appreciate the sentiments and accolades for that distro. Understand that for South Africans most of us consider Mark Shuttleworth a modern hero... and as geeks we were kinda awestruck anyway beyond just that, but that Ubuntu thing just didn't cut it for us in our M$ world in the workplace. Then that Mint Cassandra CD arrived... and redefined our Linux journey and put the first nail in coffin of the dual-boot thingy.

In the workplace, I stopped dual-booting sometime after Elyssa and the discovery of innotek's (back then) VirtualBox. I now work comfortably in both environments. Work related processes run in rdesktop or virtualbox and everything else is hosted on Mint. BTW being a MCSE+I my web server of choice on Mint is lighttpd. I guess the point is... this article (Linux is Not Windows) reflects my journey and yes... at home my PC only runs Mint. My transition wasn't easy... but I did it and I'm still learning... and lovin' the experience!

[DrHu]

After working with M$ platforms for so long--as in 1981 when I was asked for DOS support just because I was a COBOL programmer... go figure--
...
BTW being a MCSE+I my web server of choice on Mint is lighttpd. I guess the point is... this article (Linux is Not Windows) reflects my journey and yes... at home my PC only runs Mint. My transition wasn't easy... but I did it and I'm still learning... and lovin' the experience!

That's just IT hierarchy working well: nothing to worry about.
--for the same reason they put accountants in charge of IT processes and not just procurements..

And don't hire artists, which is what you really need for imaginative viewpoints (creativity).
C'est la vie
--or as Annie Hall said it "lah de dah, lah-lah"

BTW being a MCSE+I...
Nice to see a journey instead of only nit-picking against Foss, Linux, etcetera..
--now I just wish governments (which have all that public money to spend) would get on the same path: this has been quite the struggle, and so far without great success, just because Linux is not windows..

[gcampton]

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Windows user: I wanted a new toy car, and everybody's raving about how great Lego cars can be. So I bought some Lego, but when I got home, I just had a load of bricks and cogs and stuff in the box. Where's my car??

Linux user: You have to build the car out of the bricks. That's the whole point of Lego.

Windows user: What?? I don't know how to build a car. I'm not a mechanic. How am I supposed to know how to put it all together??

Linux user: There's a leaflet that came in the box. It tells you exactly how to put the bricks together to get a toy car. You don't need to know how, you just need to follow the instructions.

Windows user: Okay, I found the instructions. It's going to take me hours! Why can't they just sell it as a toy car, instead of making you have to build it??

Linux user: Because not everybody wants to make a toy car with Lego. It can be made into anything we like. That's the whole point.

Windows user: I still don't see why they can't supply it as a car so people who want a car have got one, and other people can take it apart if they want to. Anyway, I finally got it put together, but some bits come off occasionally. What do I do about this? Can I glue it?

Linux user: It's Lego. It's designed to come apart. That's the whole point.

Windows user: But I don't want it to come apart. I just want a toy car!

Linux user: Then why on Earth did you buy a box of Lego??

I rolf'ed at this.... Mostly because I was the same way when I first discovered linux.

[Plastic Paddy]

I must say that this article was well written. I wish that I had seen this article prior to taking the plunge. It was quite refreshing though, but there was a steep learning curve. I dual booted with windows for a time and then found that I only booted to windows once a month at best.... then lately not at all. I tried a few flavors of Linux and found Mint. Great distro and I can not imagine going back.... the article does explain a lot and I will print and use it when I preach to the masses.... well done on the article and well done Linux Mint Gloria!!!

[rhY]

Nice article. I'm new to linux and want to learn how to make it dance. On the net where is the best place to learn? I have mint7 but plan to dual boot a no frills basic distro to work on to learn.

Why dual boot when you can run any distribution you desire in Virtualbox? That way if you by chance bork your virtual machine, you don't take the whole computer down with it.

Dual boot is a much better idea for most users. The main reason being Grand Theft Auto.

[MistressNomad]

..........................

[ibm450]

*sigh* While the article is well-written, and does strike on many valid points, I have to ultimately disagree. What I hear when I read that is the same thing I've always heard from well-meaning Linux geeks who are, ultimately, missing the point.

I'm in the process of downloading Mint as we speak. I'm currently an XP user because I refuse to move to the insanity that is Vista, and Ubuntu disappointed me beyond belief.

Not because it wasn't Windsuck. The reason I tried it was because I didn't want it to be. I don't mind learning some new hotkeys. It's not that.

Not because I'm totally computer illiterate. I'm not. If I have to, I can go into the command line and get my **** done. I'd prefer not to, but I can. It's not that.

The reason I didn't like Ubuntu was because the package SAID "pre-assembled toy car" and when I opened it, not only was it not fully pre-assembled, but some of the pieces didn't even fit, and some of them were missing all together.

For example, what precisely is the point of a packaged Java install when it fails to work (all 6 versions, by the way) and you have to go into the command line anyway? Just for looks?

I have dozens such examples with my 4 months with Ubuntu. Yes. Four months. I gave it the benefit of the doubt. I gave it a chance. But ultimately, I don't want to play with a half-assembled car. Even if it's free.

That, for me anyway, was the issue. If Linux wants to be for geeks, by geeks, that's cool. But if that's how it's going to be, don't lie to me and tell me it's user friendly (user friendly being defined as logical and simple, not necessarily familiar). Either be for geeks and be honest about it, or give me something that actually IS user friendly.

However! I have heard the Mint has made serious progress on this issue, and really, Ubuntu was not that far away from being worth it. There are probably only 3 or 4 things that needed to happen for Ubuntu to be totally useable for the "average user," and from what I've read Mint hits most them.

So, I'm hoping this is going to be The One. Because as we speak, I'm on a friend's Vista machine, and it's making me want to dig my eyes out of my head with rusty spoons. And once 7 comes out, I'm not going to have much of a choice. I was done with Windows years ago. Hopefully this will be the alternative I've been looking for.

Jesus, you hit my G-Spot with this comment...lol...talk about straight to the point, and mind you, a very sharp point it is too.
ive been in the computer business for many years, from having a home based comp business (web-developer - in house database planner/developer - in house vb programming). for many years i tried linux on and off, i only had linux installed for no more then 1 week in the past, until i discovered mint.

i almost gave up linux my self especially when i stumbled across "Whinners.." thread i think in this forum or Ubuntu, where, ultimately, it was the geeks attacking the newbies when newbies were trying to understand and or try out something new from years of windows use to something that, frankly, in my personal experience, found linux/ubuntu having that half finished feel to it and was and is still at times very frustrating to make things work and get very dis-heartened by comments like "if you dont like linux, go back to windows.." just dosnt help.

i can see that more and more window users are at LEAST dual booting to linux these days and that to me means that there is going to be 1000's of opinions coming at linux developers in relation to user friendliness to new GUI designs to making it, hopefully, less command line free OS.

lol....i cant wait to see the slagging coming my way after this post also.... must say its getting better, more GUI orientated and starting to get less line command orientated when installing wanna be apps (debs)

[MistressNomad]

That was exactly it. It felt half-finished. I'm sure geeks must love that to pieces, but for someone who just wants to get her **** done, that is a nightmare.

And that article had the same snobby "You stupid Windows users just don't understand" feel as everything else I've read. It's not that I don't understand - I'm not stupid. It's that I was told Ubunutu was user friendly, and I found out that it was not. And when I said something about it, I got attacked.

I don't anticipate Mint to be entirely easy if only because I have a touch screen to grapple with. But I simply can't go on with Windows. And I am really hoping Mint will deliver on its promise where Ubuntu failed, and that the community here will be kinder than the community there.

EDIT: Here is a successful Linux convert who gets it: http://nixiepixel.com/blog/index.php/ub ... hate-linux

Don't be fooled by the title.

[rich_roast]

That was exactly it. It felt half-finished. I'm sure geeks must love that to pieces, but for someone who just wants to get her **** done, that is a nightmare.

Agreed, migrating to Linux, as opposed to trying it out, is an operation not to be underestimated, and an on-going one. I switched to Fedora 2 shortly after its released, completely, because I was forced into it (laptop's Windows got corrupted on hard drive during work trip, absolutely needed something to word process on, couldn't afford a new Windows and didn't have recovery disks, found Fedora 2 offered on front of a £5 Linux magazine, installed it, got on with work). I feel very fortunate that my experience has largely been a smooth one, and Linux rescued my Master's which Windows seemed intent on destroying. I got my "****" done through Linux, and have largely been able to find the information I needed to keep it that way for most of the time since.

I am interested to know, and hope others would be, in which ways (Ubuntu?) felt half-finished. Linux OSs, bar those that have ceased to be actively developed, are never finished nor will they ever be, any more than "Windows" will be finished - I suppose that Windows releases might "feel" more finished on account of the longer gaps between releases, but from a user interface perspective I can't help but feel that Mint (can't speak specifically for Ubuntu) has quite a mature desktop. Nobody, excepting perhaps testers, wants to feel like they're working in a construction site so it'd be interesting to know where this feeling comes from.

...It's that I was told Ubunutu was user friendly, and I found out that it was not. And when I said something about it, I got attacked.

You shouldn't have been attacked. It is sometimes difficult for a veteran, who remembers the clunky old graphical user interfaces (or not!) offered years ago, to understand or remember the difficulty of adjusting to new ways of doing things, like getting to grips with running terminal commands, modprobes, permissions, etc.. But that's no excuse, sorry to hear it.

I don't anticipate Mint to be entirely easy if only because I have a touch screen to grapple with. But I simply can't go on with Windows. And I am really hoping Mint will deliver on its promise where Ubuntu failed, and that the community here will be kinder than the community there.

There have been a few reports, both successful and not, on these forums concerning touchscreens. apparently there's an evtouch package which might help. Welcome to Mint, hopefully this'll be a better experience.

[MistressNomad]

Part of the reason I want to try Mint is because from what I've read, it has fixed a lot of the issues with Ubuntu. Like I said, still in the process of downloading it. Haven't tried Mint yet.

Ubuntu felt "half finished" in that a lot of the install packages didn't work, the compitability issues were much more crippling than it implied (as in, 4 different pairs of speakers, and none of them would work consistently), and all sorts of little niggling things that added up to such a bad user experience that I didn't want to continue with it. Basically, it said it did a lot of things that, in actuality, it doesn't. The looks were deceptive - it did look "finished," but it acted like it was still in Alpha.

Part of this is that while I am capable of getting into a computer's guts, I don't want to. I move and work quickly. I am only willing to spend so much time learning an OS and setting it up. If I still haven't got it right after 4 months, it's not worth it to me.

I'm hoping I can get the touch screen to work, but I basically just need to save my computer right now. XP ate it. Again. So it's time to try something new. Hopefully this will be the answer.

[lagagnon]

MistressNomad: Mint is based completely upon Ubuntu. There are really no significant system differences between Ubuntu and Mint - most of the differences are cosmetic with a few extras thrown in such as mintMenu. So all I'm saying is don't expect miracles.

Perhaps you could be more specific as to what "install packages didn't work" and what "compatibility issues" you in fact did have so we might be able to help you with your Mint install. You might also want to read this post about "The Myth of Working out of the Box" : http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.p ... th#p172482

[MistressNomad]

The thing is, there was nothing significantly wrong with the *idea* of Ubuntu. It was just sloppily put together.

So, a re-worked Ubunutu actually sounds pretty good, if it really is re-worked.

I don't think that installs are instant. I, unlike most, have actually installed Windows, and I know for a fact it doesn't really "just work." But once you get through the installation part, most of it actually does just work. That's what I'm aiming for.

I'll get there once I actually get to the installation part...

[lagagnon]

I, unlike most, have actually installed Windows, and I know for a fact it doesn't really "just work." But once you get through the installation part, most of it actually does just work. That's what I'm aiming for.

Windows only works after an install once all the correct drivers for the various hardware are loaded, and even then there may be problems. Same with any operating system actually...tweaking is usually required unless you buy off the shelf.