Mint Debian

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Re: Mint Debian

Postby RichardH on Wed Aug 19, 2009 1:48 pm

The best way to learn the benefits of a mixed-stable system is to run sidux/sid for a while,
at least a couple of years. Much will be learned by going through a cycle of Debian freezes
which turns everything in sid on it's head, though it is more stable just nothing new coming in.
When the freeze lifts then the floodgates open and several months worth of updates, bug fixes,
and improvements beginning hitting sid. Sharp curves ahead.

sidux is a fairly stable system if you install every new release,
add the testing source and in apt.conf add: Release="testing";

Then it is no longer sidux and you won't be given much assistance if you mention "testing". :)
They have some fairly strict rules to which they want users to adhere:
1. only use apt-get at init level 3 with no X running for dist-upgrade, never upgrade.
2. do not use synaptic nor aptitude
3. only use sidux tools, no outsider scripts, like smxi, http://smxi.org/

You are always free to do what you want, just solve your problems elsewhere.

I find that sidux is a good path for me to testing.
But I tend to reinstall since I keep all data on other partitions,
including thunderbird.default, firefox.default and documents.
/home is in / and only contains config stuff. Easily replaced at install.
Reinstalling also cleans up leftovers from lots of changes.


But I enjoy the LinuxMint method as well and am learning from it.
Also the Remastersys LXDE distro and remaster tool.
The AVlinux based on Debian testing and Remastersys LXDE.
It is for creating audio and video but is also a rolling "testing" distro.

I try to keep at least 1 stable partition and a couple of others in trials.
Lots of toys; so little time.
The stable allows reinitializing to get work done.
Mainly my HP1020 printer is 100% linux compatible but not very stable.
Changes tend to cause it not to print. Sometimes just turning it off causes it not to print.
Though it is more stable in sidux once installed than in Mint or any of the new 'buntus.


Honestly, I believe that starting from Debian testing will yield a much more stable rolling distro.

The main aspects of "testing" are as follows, from http://www.us.debian.org/devel/testing.en.html:
<<< "The "testing" distribution is an automatically generated distribution. It is generated from the "unstable" distribution by a set of scripts which attempt to move over packages which are reasonably likely to lack release-critical bugs. They do so in a way that ensures that dependencies of other packages in testing are always satisfiable.

A particular version of a package will move into testing when it satisfies all of the following criteria:
1. It must have been in unstable for 10, 5 or 2 days, depending on the urgency of the upload;
2. It must be compiled and up to date on all architectures it has previously been compiled for in unstable;
3. It must have fewer release-critical bugs than, or the same number as, the version currently in "testing";
4. All of its dependencies must either be satisfiable by packages already in "testing", or be satisfiable by the group of packages which are going to be installed at the same time;
5. The operation of installing the package into "testing" must not break any packages currently in "testing". >>>


So, by definition, testing should only contain packages proven to compile and not break existing packages in "testing".
Of course, a newly entered package could contain new bugs which due to the more complicated process of entering testing, sometimes take longer to be available. Which leads many to run a mixed "testing/sid" system in order to get fixes quicker.

Generally, testing is very stable compared to sid and much less likely to break and almost as up-to-date as sid. Much more up-to-date than stable which is a true software release that only receives bug-fixes and security updates. Stable still has OOo2.4.1 while most everyone else has OOo3.0 or 3.1, etcetera. Until the freeze, at which time, testing slowly becomes stable and is finally released. And the cycle starts all over again.
Last edited by RichardH on Wed Aug 26, 2009 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby linuxviolin on Thu Aug 20, 2009 3:44 pm

Sidux is a good distro but for me, they use the bad Debian branch, should be Testing, not Sid. For a good Testing distro I prefer/like, and used, Parsix.

But just, rolling release = moving target, something always changing, with the risk at every update to break something.

Now yes, everything can work well, at least most of the time, but the risk is still there and you can not predict whether the next update does not likely to break something. If you like/want rolling release it's your choice but you and people must know and accept this, and it's better if you have a minimum of expertise/knowledge just in case... :!:

gnudude wrote:I am impressed that you are so knowledgeable about running and maintaining a rolling release installation for a significant period of time since you obviously prefer a stable release. I wouldn't of expected such familiarity with such a 'broken' system

:-) Yes, I had some "experiences"... :lol:

gnudude wrote:I consider everyone to be capable

Capable, yes maybe, but for some it can be somewhat difficult ... Just read some posts in these forums to see that a number of Mint users can be in "panic" if in problem...

Anyway, as always it's Clem who will have the last word, although we say...


P.S.= OOo 3 is crap, or almost. Office is better. But it's not the problem here. :D
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby Zwopper on Thu Aug 20, 2009 7:22 pm

...and then again you don't HAVE to update, just because an update is available, if your system works, why risk to break it?! :wink:
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby linuxviolin on Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:51 pm

Zwopper wrote:...and then again you don't HAVE to update, just because an update is available, if your system works, why risk to break it?! :wink:

OK but again if you don't update, why a rolling release, why use a rolling release, what is the point? Do not update goes against the principle of rolling release...
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby gnudude on Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:19 pm

...so you can update something if you choose to
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby linuxviolin on Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:57 pm

Yes but it's not really the "principle" of rolling release and you can also do it with a not rolling release, sometimes... When I had Testing or/and Parsix I had updated several times some apps from Sid or from their web sites with a newer version. This is possible also with a more "stable" distro like Mint main for example or Ubuntu, and there too I have already done, several times also. ;-) Even on the apps web sites, not all but some, you can have packages for one or several distro(s) and sometimes they are newer than the version(s) in the repos and you can install them without problem.

For me rolling release is a broken model by design but some people can have a different opinion. ;-)

Use a rolling release is a choice by the user but (s)he must be aware of the risks and so (s)he must not then complain if something breaks. That's all. I guess also it's better if (s)he has a minimum of expertise/knowledge just in case.
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby Fred on Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:36 am

linuxviolin wrote:
I guess also it's better if (s)he has a minimum of expertise/knowledge just in case.

Now he tells me! As soon as I learn to read and write, I promise I will run right down to the library and try to get some. I hear that is where they keep that stuff. Is it expensive? :-)

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Re: Mint Debian

Postby linuxviolin on Fri Aug 21, 2009 9:04 am

Fred wrote:linuxviolin wrote:
I guess also it's better if (s)he has a minimum of expertise/knowledge just in case.

Now he tells me! As soon as I learn to read and write, I promise I will run right down to the library and try to get some. I hear that is where they keep that stuff. Is it expensive? :-)

Fred

Hahaha, Fred I like you! lol :P
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby gnudude on Wed Aug 26, 2009 2:08 pm

ikey wrote:By this I mean I like to run a system using only 122MB RAM and still having X lol

I prefer around 64mb on a fresh boot to the desktop. I think a environment should use a minimal amount of memory in order to have maximum amount of memory for the apps I want to run. That being said, I can tweak gnome or kde3 to meet my demands and often go back and forth between those two, for a lite environment I perfer icewm. Hard to beat icewm, in regard to resource usage.

debian lenny with kde3
Code: Select all
Info:      Processes 65 Uptime 3 min Memory 72.8/980.0MB Client Shell inxi 1.1.13


I wonder if mint debian will be any leaner/meaner?
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby Fred on Thu Aug 27, 2009 3:54 am

gnudude wrote:
I wonder if mint debian will be any leaner/meaner?

Well... that will be up to the developers. But for even a novice user it really makes no difference. The program complement can be reduced or expanded easy enough. As far as the RAM memory foot print is concerned, that really depends on the desktop and what services, graphics options, and preloads you allow to run on boot.

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Re: Mint Debian

Postby gnudude on Thu Aug 27, 2009 8:52 am

Fred wrote: As far as the RAM memory foot print is concerned, that really depends on the desktop and what services, graphics options, and preloads you allow to run on boot.

So, I wonder if Mint debian will be any leaner/meaner? :wink:
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby toolz on Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:32 am

I use the best Debian derivative there is. It's very lean and mean.
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby gnudude on Fri Aug 28, 2009 10:57 am

toolz wrote:I use the best Debian derivative there is. It's very lean and mean.

(snatches the bait before anyone else)

and that would be.....????
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby toolz on Fri Aug 28, 2009 11:25 am

Maemo, of course! :)
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby gnudude on Fri Aug 28, 2009 12:30 pm

oh...never tried that one....

I heard that Refracta will boot live to a kde3 desktop in under 64mb (according to ps_mem.py). It is debian based as well so I thought maybe debian based just meant everything was a bit leaner and meaner and thought maybe mint would follow with a lean/mean debian version.

..also heard that the 'developer' of refracta is a rather mean grouchy smart*ss not to mention he is rather loony as well...he plans to 'steal' the mint installer and start using it instead of the debian installer...
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby cmost on Sat Aug 29, 2009 10:20 am

gnudude wrote:oh...never tried that one....

I heard that Refracta will boot live to a kde3 desktop in under 64mb (according to ps_mem.py). It is debian based as well so I thought maybe debian based just meant everything was a bit leaner and meaner and thought maybe mint would follow with a lean/mean debian version.

..also heard that the 'developer' of refracta is a rather mean grouchy smart*ss not to mention he is rather loony as well...he plans to 'steal' the mint installer and start using it instead of the debian installer...


What on earth are you going on about???? :roll:
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby gnudude on Sat Aug 29, 2009 1:29 pm

nothing really...I was just wondering about the mint debian version.
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby Husse on Sat Aug 29, 2009 3:46 pm

..also heard that the 'developer' of refracta is a rather mean grouchy smart*ss not to mention he is rather loony as well...he plans to 'steal' the mint installer and start using it instead of the debian installer...

I just saw this - consider what you write....
And as long as any Mint branding is removed or the installer is completely unchanged it's perfectly OK
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby gnudude on Sat Aug 29, 2009 6:14 pm

well....to tell a little secret....I was talking about myself.. :lol:
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Re: Mint Debian

Postby Husse on Sun Aug 30, 2009 7:15 am

gnudude wrote:well....to tell a little secret....I was talking about myself.. :lol:

lol
I did not see your avatar :)
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