Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby htismaqe on Tue Oct 20, 2009 6:54 pm

toolz wrote:It should be made clear that the lag is going to be quite long/very long even for some vulnerable apps. Secondly a lot of apps in the repos will be almost unusable and will likely not get updated either. Often the best course for most users is to dig up the PPA and use that.


I'm a Linux noob, and I've had a TON of success getting apps from 3rd-party repos (PPA). I've gotten upstream wireless and video drivers, more stable apps, all kinds of stuff, and if you're careful about which repos you use, they pretty much all work.

Also, it's MUCH preferable to downloading software directly so that you don't lose track of the software you've installed in apt/synaptic.
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby BastianBalthasarBux on Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:18 pm

Great explanation, but I have to remark that your firefox-example is the very worst example i could ever think about! ;)
I won't update evolution, vlc or aptana (ups, isn't included anyway *gg*) since there are not really anoying bugs (or really awaited new features) which are resolved in the next version, but i will always update my browsers (all of them) to the latest stable version the manufacturer would provide!

And a second remakr: there is no 'tweak" necessary to get ff 3.5. running on mint (also as default). just download the original software from mozilla.org, install it, and just correct one single symlink (AFAIR it is /usr/bin/firefox).
But you have to keep in mind:
You should update this piece of software manually yourself since then!
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby htismaqe on Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:11 pm

BastianBalthasarBux wrote:Great explanation, but I have to remark that your firefox-example is the very worst example i could ever think about! ;)
I won't update evolution, vlc or aptana (ups, isn't included anyway *gg*) since there are not really anoying bugs (or really awaited new features) which are resolved in the next version, but i will always update my browsers (all of them) to the latest stable version the manufacturer would provide!

And a second remakr: there is no 'tweak" necessary to get ff 3.5. running on mint (also as default). just download the original software from mozilla.org, install it, and just correct one single symlink (AFAIR it is /usr/bin/firefox).
But you have to keep in mind:
You should update this piece of software manually yourself since then!


There are often reasons that the absolute latest version of a given piece of software isn't available via the official repos, though.

In my case, Firefox is a perfect example. Downloading the latest "stable" version from Mozilla wasn't actually stable at all, and I had also lost the ability to manage the package via apt/synaptic, because I had compiled it from source. In my experience with several Jaunty variants over the last few weeks, FF 3.0 is better than FF 3.5.
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby htismaqe on Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:55 pm

Another one that comes to mind (primarily because I'm messing with it right now) is WICD.

The latest version available from the Ubuntu repos is 1.5.9-2. The stable version available from the WICD PPA is 1.6.2-2. Both of them install just fine, and both of them connect just fine.

However, if I type iwconfig wlan0 rate 54M while using 1.6.2-2, my connection goes up and down every 5-7 seconds. 1.5.9-2 does not do that.
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby emorrp1 on Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:14 am

Actually firefox is a good example, if you want the latest version, you can either install the existing firefox-3.5 package, or you can enable mozilla's ppa (https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mozilla-d ... rchive/ppa), no need to go to their website and risk a phishing attack, as well as keeping the automatic updates. If your underlying reason for updating only your browser is security, I explain this aspect briefly at the bottom of the post, see viewtopic.php?f=47&t=32809 for more info.
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby BastianBalthasarBux on Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:21 am

If your underlying reason for updating only your browser is security

Nope, it isn't.

First underlying reason is, that I have to test Websites on the latest stable release of a browser (as most of the users are windows users who update immediatley). ;)
Second underlying reason is, that I work pretty much within the browser, and 3.5.3 (the really offical latest stable release, not the 3.5.5 one in the ppa) is much faster than 3.0.x specially concerning ajax-driven webapps.
Third underlying reason specially for ff3.5 is, that I want/have to test the new standards and functionalities (like embedding ogg directly, without a plugin).

But: This is my taste, and I can live with a manual update of my browsers, as I know how to do it ;)
I never intended to express criticism on the release cycle and guidlines which linuxmint sticks to! For most users ff 3.0 is quite ok. For most webdevelopers, well, we can live with ff 3.0 quite good, as long as we have to live with ie6. ;)

to go to their website and risk a phishing attack
? how should this phising attack lookalike?
I go to http://www.mozilla.org (i do not type 'firfox' to google, and continue to the first result). As browsers are my daily bread, I know how the mozilla website should look. I am able to check md5sums.

Downloading the latest "stable" version from Mozilla wasn't actually stable at all, and I had also lost the ability to manage the package via apt/synaptic, because I had compiled it from source. In my experience with several Jaunty variants over the last few weeks, FF 3.0 is better than FF 3.5.


I use Firefox 3.5 on several boxes (linuxmint, opensuse, fedora, windows xp/vista/7) since months and I can't see any problems. Even one of my customers is running on firefox on about 15 workstations since months, and they are not complaining about unstable systems!

But I did not compile the browser myself (i trust in mozilla;) ).
The only software i am compiling myself is software like eaccelerator, php, unrtf, catdoc, ... as i have there my modified make scripts.
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby htismaqe on Fri Oct 23, 2009 10:47 am

As you said, it's your personal taste.

I think his post was aimed more generally at the user community as a whole - you're a web developer. 95% or more of the potential new Linux users aren't and in fact, they're likely not particularly computer savvy like some of us are. :)

But: This is my taste, and I can live with a manual update of my browsers, as I know how to do it ;)


It works for you and that's great. But in general, there's a reason we have packages and tools to manage those packages - installing stand-alone software can become quite unmanageable in Linux (at least in my limited experience) if you don't really know what you're doing. It really comes down to increasing the user base - Linux needs to be more and more user-friendly if it ever wants to be considered "mainstream".

As browsers are my daily bread, I know how the mozilla website should look. I am able to check md5sums.


Again, your personal experience is likely quite different than most. A good portion of Linux "converts" might have never used Mozilla or Firefox. Furthermore, I'd venture to guess that 9 out of 10 home Windows users have never HEARD of MD5, SHA1, or checksums in general. His suggestion, I'm certain, pertained to average user community and not you specifically - a potential phishing attack is another risk of the AVERAGE user following your method.

I use Firefox 3.5 on several boxes (linuxmint, opensuse, fedora, windows xp/vista/7) since months and I can't see any problems. Even one of my customers is running on firefox on about 15 workstations since months, and they are not complaining about unstable systems!

But I did not compile the browser myself (i trust in mozilla;) ).
The only software i am compiling myself is software like eaccelerator, php, unrtf, catdoc, ... as i have there my modified make scripts.


Since discovering Webkit, I won't be going back to Firefox. It's just plain slow. But that's another discussion altogether. :twisted:

I have tried Firefox on Mint 7, Mint 5, Fedora 11, Windows 2000 and XP, and Xubuntu 9.04. Firefox 3.5.x ONLY works well on Windows. I've had numerous issues on Linux, regardless of distro, from annoyances to full-on crashes. I've found that using the "official" version of Firefox for whatever distro I'm working with gives me a much more stable and fast browser. I trust in the people that build and test the OS than I do Mozilla. The folks that make Ubuntu and Mint have THOROUGHLY tested FF 3.0.x while Mozilla seems to be spending most of their development resources trying to garner more Windows users. That's just the way I see it.
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby jcd on Sun Nov 01, 2009 5:48 pm

Hi everyone!

I'm one of those users who had to stick with Felicia when Gloria came out, because ATI decided not to support 3d graphics in linux anymore... So, chances are, I'll be using Felicia even after Helena has been out etc... for as long as I can...

Since I'm not the only one in such a situation, I'd like to suggest to the Linux Mint team to consider offering some upgrades or some Mint PPAs for the (let's say) Top 15 software applications, such as Rhythmbox, Deluge, VLC etc...

They are already doing so for Firefox, Opera and some others so it shouldn't be much of a work for a few more apps, and it would make a world of a difference for newcomers or "trapped" users like me...

I have a general feeling that Mint PPAs is somewhat inevitable, and it would be the best and easiest way to make Linux Mint look a lot more reliable, professional and noob friendly... I definitely vote for this...

Anyway, nice work guys... Mint ROCKs!!
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby Husse on Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:48 pm

The "normal" open source drivers for ATI will soon be on pair with the restricted drivers
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby jcd on Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:53 pm

Glad to hear that!

Thanks for mentioning Husse...
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby emorrp1 on Sun Nov 01, 2009 7:59 pm

indeed, see here for more info: viewtopic.php?f=59&t=31845 I haven't bothered to check out karmic yet, but basically my advice on the ATI front is keep checking with each new Mint release to see if it's good enough for you (been fine in Gloria for me). I've been keeping an eye on http://www.phoronix.com which has had a few more updates on the same ATI issue, in time for Helena+1 so if Helena is not good enough, then just wait another 6 months and I doubt you'll have any issues.

EDIT: p.s. any other ATI comments should probably go in the ATI thread so as not to confuse people.
Last edited by emorrp1 on Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby htismaqe on Sun Nov 01, 2009 8:32 pm

Husse wrote:The "normal" open source drivers for ATI will soon be on pair with the restricted drivers


ATI support in Xubuntu Karmic is already INFINITELY better. I can actually watch Youtube videos without performance issues, using the LIVE CD. :)

So yeah, we just need to be patient. The open source drivers continue to improve at a great rate.
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby jcd on Mon Nov 02, 2009 4:38 pm

Thanks guys!

I read through the links and I'm currently downloading Karmic for a quick test...
I'll be posting in the ATI thread anything I find... (It's a thread with a great opening post, by the way!)
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby htismaqe on Tue Nov 03, 2009 11:46 am

Let's put it this way - I've had enough success so far with Flash and Firefox in 9.10 that I haven't installed Midori yet.
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby revelstone on Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:59 pm

i realize this is an old posting from 2009 but i read and had to put in my two cents, so here goes. interesting topic, of which I will say this. After hundreds, or even thousands of people, have personally involved their own personal time of hundreds and even thousands of hours creating code, for something that is absolutely free, I will not complain that I don’t have the newest and the greatest apps to go with the software. Instead I wish to thank each and every one of you that supplied the code and the time of your own free will, to create something that is better than any thing that ever will or ever has come out of Redmond. To even think of complaining that I don’t have this or don’t have that is rude at best, heartless at worst. You’ve freed me from the tyranny of the Great Northwest, and for that I am eternally grateful. Thank you Linus Benedict Torvalds, thank you to the thousands of people since his first beginnings, and last, but certainly not least, thank you Linux Mint.
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby pewterbot9 on Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:46 am

Fred wrote:if we could just get people to search and read before asking the same questions over and over. :-)


If this site had a search engine that actually worked, you might be justified in your claim. Even the simplest searches I've tried--where the key word or phrase is in the subject title itself--do not take me to the appropriate thread. Even when I test this out, where I know a subject's title precisely, searching for the word or phrase therein, fails. Always.

And that is why you get the same questions over and over again, more than one would expect. IOW, this is not due to a member being lazy, ignorant, or just plain rude. It is the failure of a search engine to even have the most rudimentary searches succeed. I have seen this in many message boards across cyberspace, and wonder why this is!
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby xmn on Thu Jan 27, 2011 6:00 pm

I'm using a using a distro-based package website too but i'm considering to get an alternative
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby Arenalgarden on Sat Mar 19, 2011 6:31 am

Ahhhh. Opinions.
FF4 Has it final release set for this coming Tuesday.
Lets see how long it takes to hit the repos. :roll:
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby vrkalak on Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:23 pm

Sometimes packages have seemingly recursive dependencies (adding X makes Y uninstallable, Y is waiting for X).

This means the new version of X will break the old version of Y, but there's also a new version of Y that needs the new version of X.

As soon as all other dependencies are solved, the two packages can be hinted to go in together.

And the newer package version will become available for installing.

I hope this clears everything up?
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Re: Why are my applications not the latest possible version?

Postby Hezy on Wed Apr 06, 2011 11:48 am

vrkalak wrote:Sometimes packages have seemingly recursive dependencies (adding X makes Y uninstallable, Y is waiting for X).

This means the new version of X will break the old version of Y, but there's also a new version of Y that needs the new version of X.



sounds like a time travel paradox from an old star track episode :P
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