Looking at OpenSUSE 11.2

[waldo]

Recently I loaded a drive with OpenSUSE 11.2 with KDE 4.3.1. Over the years, I've tried OpenSUSE (and SuSE before that), and always felt it was too cumbersome to be a good desktop system. (I usually use OpenSUSE to set up servers for clients.) This new version is different. OpenSUSE's implementation of KDE 4.3 has brought the desktop together and it is impressive. I don't think it's quite as friendly as Mint for the new Linux user, but with basic skills, you will find it an excellent choice.

You do have to select to install the non-open codecs, but they make it easy. The closed source nVidia driver is only slightly more elusive. OpenSUSE has a web site with an automatic web based installer. It works, but you have to know to look for it.

It is slower to boot than Mint (and much slower to install), but faster to load most programs. It appears to be a rock solid professionally done distro.

[markcynt]

I love openSUSE.

Best KDE implementation IMO.

Not for most newbies IMO, and package management takes getting used to.

YaST makes system easy to configure but even YaST takes getting used to.

Most Mint users would find it difficult to use initially IMO.

[gravelbay]

Interesting. I came to Mint from OpenSUSE. I used it for several years, beginning with 10.3. There was no real good reason for me to switch. I was quite happy with it, especially with 11.1. They made some quantum improvements in YAST speeds. But my laptop didn't seem to like SUSE. I had Mandriva on the laptop and one day it decided that dbus was missing or broken - I forgot which, so I put Mint 7 KDE on the laptop. I liked it so much that I did the same on my main computer. If not for the laptop troubles, I'd probably still be a totally satisfied OpenSUSE user. I think they are both great distros, but I always recommend Mint to my Windows friends. It's just easier.

[markcynt]

t I always recommend Mint to my Windows friends. It's just easier.

Can't argue with that.

[deleted]

The only reason (well reasons) I'd use OpenSUSE is that I know they've got Novell's support.
As such. they've got a great set of rpms, and one-click install.
They also have done a lot of tweaking to integrate Firefox and Thunderbird into KDE 4. It looks really nice.

That being said, I do spend most of my time with Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice, Java tools, where GTK is the toolkit, etc.
So I ask myself, "Do I want to run KDE where GTK is 'integrated' or just run GTK apps"? Well, I'll stick with GTK/Gnome. So then that puts me to deciding between Mint and OpenSUSE. I'm a long-time Debian user, so the choice it obvious.

I do run OpenSUSE from time to time. It's one of the few "official" distros supported by my company, but I run it in a VM and only for testing/debugging purposes.

-H

[playnicekidz]

i've been using OpenSUSE Gnome before switching to Mint.
there were a couple of very annoying bugs (like impossibility to change windows positions on the panel and something really strange with fonts and display) in 11.2
i wish i haven't swithed from 11.1 to 11.2. the former worked just perfectly.
then i turned to Mint 8.

however, i believe they will fix all the bugs in OpenSUSE.
my opinion about OpenSUSE is that it is probably the most friendly distro for new linux users. regarding getting used to it - YaST is just great. I would say the very best system administration tool. especially for those who come from Windows. one gets used to it a lot. and starts missing it in other distros.

as for mint - looks much nicer then ubuntu. the menu is great.

[zts]

openSUSE/SUSE is a great distro, no doubt -- I've used it since their German-based days (but after they moved away from being Slackware-based and more towards being an independent distro and incorporating Jurix). In those days, you'd get like a dozen or so install CDs and two massive manuals in SuSE package. Yet, even then the system was as user friendly as it got in those days and yet in the same time was an impressive and complete Linux system. So, yes I'm fond of SuSE. Even today, as openSUSE, the system is impressive and for a Linux corporate/business setting I'd recommend (Novell) SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED) 11 (based on open SUSE 11.1). However, while the package is still very user-friendly, I think also other distros have made significant strides in that direction. So, IMO, this would be how I'd I rank the top 3 distros among 7 or 8 I've recently tried by user-friendliness and yet being powerful enough to meet business needs:

1. (Debian-based-Ubuntu-based) Linux Mint 8 (hard to beat the logically set-up menus, great looks, with multimedia working right out of the box. Plenty of repositories via Ubuntu. Plenty of available DEB packages around. Best GNOME distro ever)
2. Mandriva 2010.0 -- someone has rocked the boat and woke up the crew in Mandriva camp and finally these guys are running and creating some awesome stuff. Hands down, the best KDE distro with the new Air theme. Mandriva GNOME distro only second to Mint and on par with Ubuntu. Awesome installer -- read again: AWESOME INSTALLER. Possibly the best system control center. Friendly RPM installers and software manager. Second place just because even with the paid Powerpack you still have to hunt down appropriate DVD playback libraries. Overall, an awesome version.
3. SUSE Linux Enterprise Desktop (SLED) 11/openSUSE 11.1 -- awesome new menu system/navigation; solid as a rock system and still pretty; great for an absolute beginner to an advanced expert; paid version (SLED) is the best you can get for corporate/business environment; huge repositories. Third place because even with the paid version you still need to hunt down DVD playback and sometimes even audio playback libraries. openSUSE 11.2 seems rushed and you can see that by SLED staying on 11.1.

[runbei]

I've used Mint for several years as my main OS - now on Mint 8 Helena. I keep returning, and I've often wondered about the exact reasons. I recently installed OpenSUSE 11.2 KDE on another machine, then MEPIS (also KDE). I realized that I just don't like an OS that requires too much fussing, and for someone like me who would rather not tinker with the OS, Mint just flies.

That said, I just installed OpenSUSE 11.2 Gnome on the other machine, and I like it much better than the KDE version. I suspect that Suse KDE is a delight for sysadmins and developers, more so than end-users. I'm a bit suspicious of Suse 11.2 Gnome and probably will never use it to replace Mint - that's because I've had many experiences with OpenSUSE and SLED in the past, and each time, I had to invest too much energy fiddling under the hood.

Also, Novell's website is atrocious - really, what are they thinking? They definitely need to hire an outside Web usability expert/designer. This, I believe, is relevant, because it speaks about the company's engineering orientation. Their customer support is very enthusiastic and helpful for SLED users - but dang it, they're engineers. Which is great when it comes to stability, but not so much when it comes to putting the simpleminded end user's needs first. Suse in the open and SLED varieties sort of always feels like a work in progress, like it's on the workbench with the hood up and tools scattered around. This has improved with OpenSUSE 11.2 so far as I can see, but I'm still very cautious.

I can just see it: I've installed it on my work system - I'm looking forward to using the lovely Gnome that I'm familiar with, with the peace of mind that's it's based on a stable Suse core (and not Ubuntu-Canonical-let's be bigshots-like Bill Gates). And then all of a sudden I'm starting to see the stuff that the Suse engineers are still "working on." Don't know if that's true, but it is a fear.

That said, I wouldn't even be tinkering with Suse if it wasn't for my distaste for Ubuntu and very mild nervousness about what might leak downstream into Mint. But gosh, I do love Mint. Every time I issue forth into the desert and install another distro on the test machine, I come back to Mint with a big sigh of pleasure at how well everything works. If I have any complaints, they're always about applications, not Mint - and the same bugs occur in those apps under Suse. But that's another topic.

P.S. Fonts in OpenOffice look smoother in OpenSUSE 11.2 Gnome than in the KDE version or in Mint 8. Can't figure out exactly why. Fonts in Firefox under Suse are crappy and require tweaking, tho.

[markcynt]

I've used Mint for several years as my main OS - now on Mint 8 Helena. I keep returning, and I've often wondered about the exact reasons.

It's the same with me, only with openSUSE.

I realized that I just don't like an OS that requires too much fussing, and for someone like me who would rather not tinker with the OS, Mint just flies.

What fussing? openSUSE just flies for me.

I suspect that Suse KDE is a delight for sysadmins and developers, more so than end-users.

I'm an end-user and it's a delight for me, more so than Mint.

I've had many experiences with OpenSUSE and SLED in the past, and each time, I had to invest too much energy fiddling under the hood.

Fiddling with what?

Also, Novell's website is atrocious - really, what are they thinking?

That's funny, I think it's the best in the business.

openSUSE, in my simpleminded opinion is the best distro out there. It's the most flexible, configurable distro. But that's just my opinion.

Of course I tend to see what's good in a distro, not what's bad, which is why I'll rarely give much negative feedback for any distro.

Heck, I like 'em all.

[exploder]

I like OpenSuse, it is a very solid distribution.

Of course I tend to see what's good in a distro, not what's bad, which is why I'll rarely give much negative feedback for any distro.

Same here with the exception of Ubuntu and all it's regressions. Mandriva One 2010 KDE is pretty darn good too! Mandriva was the only distribution that my NVIDEA GT 220 and 25" HP HDMI monitor would work properly with. My Wife got me those parts for Christmas and would have killed me if I couldn't get them working. I spent all day trying to get Mint 8 working with this hardware but I kept getting two thirds of my screen filled with multicolored lines at startup and shutdown. The desktop would not refresh right either. I installed the NVIDEA drivers and tried everything I could think of and just could not get the hardware working right. Mandriva just worked. I came to the conclusion that there were differences in the way the kernel is built because both distros are using the exact same drivers.

I really have not had very much experience with Mandriva but a little bit of reading, some questions and a couple of Google searches did the trick. I figure the issues I had will be fixed in the Ubuntu 10.04 base or at least I hope they will. I figure that at least the machine is running Linux so having to use something a little different is not so bad. I do have Mint 8 running on another machine that has older NVIDEA graphics with no problems with the display.

There is good work in a lot of distributions and it is a good idea to be open minded when it comes to Linux.

[runbei]

I'm a technically unsophisticated user. I'm not interested in "saying negative things about any distros." But I'm eager to steer noobs like me to a distro like Mint that will cause them few problems.

When I install Mint 8, it just works. It installs quickly, and any setups are easy to accomplish through the GUI. For example, I don't have to figure out how to install codecs, because they come preinstalled.

Suse 11.2 takes much longer to install, and installing codecs isn't obvious. If I hadn't accidentally found a link to the page on the Novell site where they are linked, I wouldn't have known that it existed.

I found that Suse had more small glitches than Mint. For example, Suse hangs on shutdown and won't suspend on my laptop and desktop, while Mint does. That said, I like Suse Gnome and am still tinkering with it. I'm very tempted by it because I've read, here and there, that Suse is "very stable," "rock solid," etc. I'd love to read an objective comparison between the underlying stability of Suse 11.2 and Mint 8, but so far none of the reviews I've read discussed this. It's the single reason I'd be tempted to switch to Suse. But so far, Mint 8 just works fine for me, and lacking such a technical comparison, I'll stick with it.

I like KDE apps better than Gnome. I always install Quanta Plus, etc. But I prefer Gnome to KDE. I understand why technically savvy users would prefer KDE, with all those options. But for me - the noob - they are just distracting, and most of what's in the KDE menus I can accomplish through the command line in a Gnome system. Or not?

I've tried Mepis and PCLOS - I liked them better than Suse 11.2 KDE, but I did run into frequent glitches with them that prevented me from trusting them long-term as my workaday OS.

In general, I don't care at all about the OS itself - whether it's geek-cool, etc. I just want a stable and secure system that I can use to get work done. Basically, in that respect any of the top Linux systems would work pretty well; but in two years I've been happy with Mint. A matter of taste and priorities, I guess.

I find that the big weakness in Linux is not in the OS, but in applications. Firefox can utterly crash Mint 8, requiring an Alt-SysRq-REISUB. OpenOffice can crash Mint 8 so that Alt-SysRQ... doesn't even work; you have to press and hold the Off button. Picasa Linux insists on re-indexing the 38,000 images on an external hard drive each time I switch the power off and on - that is just plain stupid. And Digikam does the same; and DK insists on copying all 38,000 photos to a separate folder before it will index them. This is just really, really stupid compared to, say, ThumbsPlus in Windows, which creates a permanent index and thumbnails of photos, no matter where they're stored.

Also - of course Linux hardware support still sucks, forcing me to use Windows to run my scanner; I am on a tight budget and cannot afford to replace it. And then, there is no decent Linux replacement for Adobe Acrobat Pro, which my work requires me to use all the time. In general, Linux developers are utterly blind to the vast opportunities that exist to out-do Windows and the Mac in the applications area. For example, there hasn't been a truly great word processing app for writers since WordStar in the late 1980s - and all serious business and tech and academic users will endure a moderately tough learning curve in order to get WordStar-level word-tumbling tools.

So, in my view, the OS should shut up, just work, and not get in my way. I don't make a living or have a lot of fun by spending time tinkering under the hood of the OS. And I'm profoundly grateful to Clem and the Mint 8 developers for giving us a Linux that requires a minimum of that. I've been amazed at how consistently they deliver an OS that doesn't get in the way. Whereas with Ubuntu, Mandriva, and Suse, it seems you never know quite what to expect - which release will be a smooth ride, and which will have annoying glitches, for different reasons. (Ubuntu from just not caring, Mandriva for who knows why, and Suse and Fedora because they're the cutting-edge experimental systems for RedHat and SLED.)

So I'll continue to recommend Mint. If others prefer Suse, Slackware, or FreeBSD, I applaud; that's just not my demographic: noob.

[mintnoob]

I find that the big weakness in Linux is not in the OS, but in applications.

+1,000

[waldo]

I find that the big weakness in Linux is not in the OS, but in applications.

+1,000

Gee, I wonder why? Perhaps it's because so many open source programmers are spending too much time turning out hundreds of distros (in the name of "choice"), most of them useless clones. If some of that wasted effort were to be focused on creating better applications, then maybe Linux could break out of the rut. Right now, Linux is mostly good for just one thing: browsing the Internet (and the few cloud applications provided by Google and a couple of other companies). Anyone who has actual real work to do needs Windows or maybe a Mac.

[mintnoob]

Gee, I wonder why? Perhaps it's because so many open source programmers are spending too much time turning out hundreds of distros (in the name of "choice"), most of them useless clones. If some of that wasted effort were to be focused on creating better applications, then maybe Linux could break out of the rut. Right now, Linux is mostly good for just one thing: browsing the Internet (and the few cloud applications provided by Google and a couple of other companies). Anyone who has actual real work to do needs Windows or maybe a Mac.

You hit the nail on the head. It's why I keep a dual boot with XP.

[Brian66]

Wow rumbel I didn't know applications with Windows was immune to crashes. People rather complain about Linux not having applications than making their own applications. Its alot easier to complain than actually do something about it. Adobes of the world is not Linux fault if they don't believe in porting their product to Linux. Maybe you should e-mail them and ask them why there product are exclusive to Mac and Windows and not Linux. To me I use Linux to get my real work done, so I don't need that other piece of junk they call Windows.

[DrHu]

... If some of that wasted effort were to be focused on creating better applications, then maybe Linux could break out of the rut. Right now, Linux is mostly good for just one thing: browsing the Internet (and the few cloud applications provided by Google and a couple of other companies). Anyone who has actual real work to do needs Windows or maybe a Mac.

Linux is mostly good for just one thing: browsing the Internet
Not true at all

Anyone who has actual real work to do needs Windows or maybe a Mac.
I have real work to do, and I don't need windows OS to do it nor might I add word
--I can easily read, create and send word processed documents; except to be more cross-platform, I can export to PDF , then any MAC or Windows user, can read them, if they are stuck on word

If I am truly stuck, I can use virtualbox to run a windows OS and its application, if and when the necessity ever arises.

OK, and about Suse (Opensuse)
This was my Linux distribution for many years, and I never found it to less than finished as a product, the Suse manuals were great: for those who bought the retail versions
Yes, YAST was sometimes a little awkward and somewhat slow, but it did work

[gravelbay]

... If some of that wasted effort were to be focused on creating better applications, then maybe Linux could break out of the rut. Right now, Linux is mostly good for just one thing: browsing the Internet (and the few cloud applications provided by Google and a couple of other companies). Anyone who has actual real work to do needs Windows or maybe a Mac.

Linux is mostly good for just one thing: browsing the Internet
Not true at all

Anyone who has actual real work to do needs Windows or maybe a Mac.
I have real work to do, and I don't need windows OS to do it nor might I add word
--I can easily read, create and send word processed documents; except to be more cross-platform, I can export to PDF , then any MAC or Windows user, can read them, if they are stuck on word

If I am truly stuck, I can use virtualbox to run a windows OS and its application, if and when the necessity ever arises.

OK, and about Suse (Opensuse)
This was my Linux distribution for many years, and I never found it to less than finished as a product, the Suse manuals were great: for those who bought the retail versions
Yes, YAST was sometimes a little awkward and somewhat slow, but it did work

Same here, DrHu. I started out with OpenSUSE 10.3 and used it exclusively up through 11.2. I do all my work in Mint now. As for YAST, I'm not sure when you last used it but they have made great improvements in speed an usability.

The only significant Linux weak area I've encountered is in video editing. If I was a pro, I'd probably have a Mac, just for that. But I dabble, so it's not too big an issue.

Most of my computer work is word processing, page layout, and some graphics design. I found a comercial program for processing the raw photos from my Nikon that blows away anything I've seen in Windows - Bibble5.

One other weak area is my inability to find an audio editor as good as Adobe Audition. I just can't figure out Audacity. But I only do that in our studios which are still in the Windows world so it doesn't affect me.

I use Virtual Box for my old version of Rosetta Stone, which will not run in WINE. Oh well.

I find myself with lots of time on my hands now. I'm not burning my hours updating anti-virus, anti-spam, anti-trojan, anti-rootkit, etc. software. I guess I could defrag my hard drive, but it doesn't need that either. No more re-registering Windows and Office over and over because it arbitrarily decided for some reason to demand that I do so.

So, on balance, there are a few pluses to Windows for me, but they are heavily outweighed by the negatives and the fact that I can do all my work at home in Linux, more efficiently than in Windows.

[Stealing_Lillies]

I find myself with lots of time on my hands now. I'm not burning my hours updating anti-virus, anti-spam, anti-trojan, anti-rootkit, etc. software. I guess I could defrag my hard drive, but it doesn't need that either. No more re-registering Windows and Office over and over because it arbitrarily decided for some reason to demand that I do so.

So, on balance, there are a few pluses to Windows for me, but they are heavily outweighed by the negatives and the fact that I can do all my work at home in Linux, more efficiently than in Windows.

I could not have said it better myself. With Linux "No wait, no worry, virtually hassle free with the exception of a few applications, And its all at my own accord/transgression" However one wishes to view 1's own acts.

My first Suse was SuSe 8.0 retail - What a nightmare that was... hehehehehe. Now days - I think OpenSuse is fantastic but I think Mint has the right idea and the right direction overall. The BIG bonus is like everyone says millions of times a day about Mint 8 "It just works". just my 2 centz

[dequire]

Gee, I wonder why? Perhaps it's because so many open source programmers are spending too much time turning out hundreds of distros (in the name of "choice"), most of them useless clones. If some of that wasted effort were to be focused on creating better applications, then maybe Linux could break out of the rut. Right now, Linux is mostly good for just one thing: browsing the Internet (and the few cloud applications provided by Google and a couple of other companies). Anyone who has actual real work to do needs Windows or maybe a Mac.

I would have to disagree. For example, it is a lot easier for you or I to roll a new distro (for example, using the SUSE Build Service) than it would be to commission usability studies in order to refine the menu system used in Gnome applications. Or to pick up a needed-but-neglected application to work on that has badly-commented code...

People can roll distros all day long. Some are obviously needed, some are not. But if it brings satisfaction and usability to the authors that they can not get from another distribution, so be it. Some play important roles by acting as proving grounds for Enterprise Versions (OpenSUSE to SUSE Enterprise, for example). Many of these people are not programmers, and therefor making a specialized distro is their contribution to open source software. If their ideas are solid, they will be picked up by the others in time.

As far as using Linux for everyday work and play, I have been for a while now. I use, for example, KDE-PIM for email, address book, and calendering even though I have GMail and GCal accounts. The fact that they are Google makes them synced on my laptop and notebook, but definitely doesn't make them easier to use. GMail, for example, is almost unusable once you have 1,000's of emails and you need to search for a specific one. Using Gmail through KMail solves this issue in my case.

Unless forced by an employer who gives you a laptop (many do in America - I received one and immediately put Mint KDE on it and used it daily), there are only a few very specialized fields where Windows would be required. And with virtual machines, frankly, there is no reason any more to run Windows as a primary OS. There just isn't. As for the cloud and Google, it takes as many users away from Office as it does Open Office or KOffice. So it's not a Linux thing. It's a Web 2.0 thing. The trick is to take cloud apps, and integrate them into the desktop for a richer experience overall. This is what KDE is doing right now.

Finally, Linux applications are getting better all of the time. To compare Windows innovations to those of Linux over the last 5 years would be a joke. We were just discussing at Camp KDE the fact that if you took 100 pct more programmers and threw them on a particular project, it would not lead to 100 pct better applications. But by putting standards and best practices in place, making the code modular and re-usable, and using the latest toolkits available (Qt in this example), you can revolutionize computing in Linux.

The one area I agree with you however is that the more users a particular distribution has, the better it is. And the more people get involved with it. This really is the whole idea behind Linux and free software. If you are not involved personally in some way, it's hard to complain too loudly...

[exploder]

The one area I agree with you however is that the more users a particular distribution has, the better it is. And the more people get involved with it. This really is the whole idea behind Linux and free software. If you are not involved personally in some way, it's hard to complain too loudly...

I have to agree with this. The key thing is getting involved. I nearly always test Ubuntu development builds because I have no right to complain about anything if I haven't done my part and helped to get the bugs out of it. Sometimes I can do some good and other times it can be frustrating but no one ever said it was going to be easy. For as much as Ubuntu development frustrates me, it has it's good moments too and working through the development cycle is addicting. We use the Ubuntu base so it's a good idea to give something back and work with their developers.

Application development is also very good in Linux. There are so many ideas and different ways of doing things. Just go to gnome-apps.org or kde-apps.org, there are all sorts of awesome applications to check out. I see more and more projects refining their quality standards and development practices and things just keep getting better.

Perhaps it's because so many open source programmers are spending too much time turning out hundreds of distros (in the name of "choice")

Choice is only part of the picture, it's a way for developers to try their own ideas and introduce new and better ways of doing things. Just look at what Clem has done with LinuxMint for example, the Mint menu is working it's way into other distributions. Why, because it's one of the most functional, customizable and flexible menus there is. Clem saw the possibilities this menu had and built on it and put it to use. Clem rolled his own distribution and created his vision of what a user friendly Linux system should be. Mint Install is another example and other distributions are now jumping all over this concept. These are just a couple of examples of what rolling your own distribution can accomplish and there are many others introducing new ideas and technology.

There can never be too much choice. If you want things to improve just pick a project that interests you, roll up your sleeves and help out.