Linux is Not Windows

[tower]

Good point, also an experienced Windows user like yourself may even have used Ghost to create a back up image of their system.

But the article is aimed at the average Windows user who probably isn't that knowledgeable .

[DrHu]

Linux is certainly not Windows.
Windows is easier to use, faster, and a lot easier when it comes to installing software.
No problems with programs, you can walk into any games store and get games or programs for it.
Linux is no where near as prevalent Bill Gates is a genius for figuring out that to make something popular you make it easy to use. If only Linus could have figured that one out. Windows here I come, Goodbye Linux, its been OK, but its certainly not been a blast.

I have to echo Husse
Well goodbye then
As well as point out that Linus Torvalds wasn't in the business of making money (monetizing) his ideas..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux

Being prevalent (maybe the term ubiquitous also sounds familiar) is not a Linux goal, that is a commercial goal

There have been attempts to appease windows users in a Linux system
Lindows/Linspire (Freespire) and Xandros
--apart from the simple setup, which some people find useful, just like a netbook (simplified or stripped down OS), those attempts can't be considered that successful

Linux, like MAC OS-X does have issues with hardware manufacturers and their drivers, as they often don't provide any (except to windows OS and sometimes only specific windows OS versions)
--and some people have an issue with using any alternative to MS Office or quickbooks; thinking that they must use such applications to meld into the commercial world

They don't, they only have to look, if they want cross-platform support
--possibly provide their documents/reports in a PDF format, since Microsoft has managed to scuttle the ODF format and movement to a free interchange of data

http://java.sun.com/javame/index.jsp
--and also tried to scuttle java, with .net (+ the usual, embrace/extend and destroy method)

Now even Google can't shift such users, and they have an enticing/entertainment world to visit
--along with Google docs, Google apps, and Google web design (GWT)

There is more that is important happening in the (Unix/Solaris) Linux and Apple world than happens in the Microsoft world: unless you be part of the fanbase.
http://blog.laspina.ca/ubiquitous/sun-d ... ion-on-zfs

[tower]

Linux is no where near as prevalent Bill Gates is a genius for figuring out that to make something popular you make it easy to use.

MMM, yes, Microsoft gained a monopoly position but for most of the time it was not for ease of use. It was skilful use of political lobbying and using every legal method to prevent competitors gaining a foothold. (And the courts have found some to be illegal)

Have a look at this site and you will see Microsoft's laughable early attempts at a GUI, oh, remember to look at the truly awful Microsoft Bob! .

http://toastytech.com/guis/guitimeline.html

http://toastytech.com/guis/bob.html

[FredS]

I read the article, and I can see where the guy is coming from for sure.

However, if it's so great and efficient to use the command line why is there is (an apparent) move to go graphical, and make the OS user friendly? Take Mint for example it a great example of an interface that lets users like me play around and actually use it to do real things (write a letter, etc etc)

I would never demand Linux become like Windows or OSX, further, I think it fantastic that so many people are working to make a worthwhile tool for people who just want an OS to runs specific applications in. So I don't really get his point.

As Linux gets better and better - read easier to use - more and more novice users will take it on board, this is seemingly at odds with the thrust of his argument.

More novice users, means more questions on forums like this.

[Kaye]

I read the article, and I can see where the guy is coming from for sure.

However, if it's so great and efficient to use the command line why is there is (an apparent) move to go graphical, and make the OS user friendly? Take Mint for example it a great example of an interface that lets users like me play around and actually use it to do real things (write a letter, etc etc)

I would never demand Linux become like Windows or OSX, further, I think it fantastic that so many people are working to make a worthwhile tool for people who just want an OS to runs specific applications in. So I don't really get his point.

As Linux gets better and better - read easier to use - more and more novice users will take it on board, this is seemingly at odds with the thrust of his argument.

More novice users, means more questions on forums like this.

Why have we moved towards a GUI? Simple: it's so much easier. Just because GUI is mainstream now doesn't necessarily mean it's the best way to do things. Anything you can do in Mint using a GUI I could do in Mint using the CLI (writing a letter, browsing the web, checking email, etc.). Chances are I'd be able to do it with much more efficiency due to the nature of the command line.

But people shouldn't have to know how to use a terminal (and they don't). Just because it's the fastest and most efficient way to do things doesn't mean it's the easiest way.

[T.Gillett]

It's better than nothing

[ibm450]

just want to say thank every1 for the support provided with linux - but the frustration has got the better of me. i installed startup manger and allocated xp as default selection on the grub menu, but now, i cant boot into xp, it just goes to the command prompt and reboots back into grub menu...enough....

ill be giving the next few, maybe 3 or 4 distros of ubuntu mint a miss until alot of issues get or possibly may get resolved in the near future.

yes i have definitely noticed the pros of linux compared to windows, but, with the continual issues ive had with:

wireless drops outs
wireless modem dropping out every 30mins and over heating (no symptoms of the like in xp)
slowness of FF and Thunderbird got the better of me
audio very touchy, had to reboot / log out on many occasions to get it to simply, just work
networking - wont even go there - very frustrating and seldom worked - never ever worked for me on default install to browse windows shares unless i hacked afew files - no thanks
frustrations of reading up how important art desktop is and unresolved issues taking like for ever to resolve and no resolvement seen in 10.4 - ubuntu should concentrate on issues other then pumping out new releases - not good
openoffice - no were as good as m$ office - frustrating to use and slow.
and so forth

i know what sort of attack i will recieve from this post, so, yes, i will be going back to xp and will definately keep an eye on mint posts and will defineatly reinstall mint in afew years time - hopefully it will be much more polished and issues ironed out.

keep up the good work, and yes, mint has been the best distro i have tried - but the continual bugs ive experianced, networking woes and modems dropping out or over heating, it just became too much...


see you online sometime..

cheers

[Husse]

We all have widely different experiences - in more than one sense
The only problems I have had with Mint, after I overcome the first big obstacle which made it impossible to install on a nvidia 6600 GT, is that the USB headset has not worked in some versions and the same goes for the scanner part of my Brother multifunction
I have installed on two rather similar desktops Athlon 3700+ with nforce mobo GeForce in one (as mentioned) and Radeon in the other which is the one I use daily
I have also installed on a HP 530 laptop with BCM4312 and everything is just working (have to connect wired to fetch the driver for the bcm, but that's all)
In all - far less hardware trouble than in the years with XP - can't really say anything about Vista in that regard but I find it so slow when I use it that you could get a nervous breakdown from it (Have Vista on my and my wifes laptop as dual boot - can't convince her to use Mint though )

[ibm450]

.. I overcome the first big obstacle which made it impossible to install on a nvidia 6600 GT, ..

-o0o-

actually the my 6600GT ran flawlesly and was picked up automatically since 9.04, and seemed to perform better in 9.10.
like i had mentioned it was the networking woes, wireless modem getting HOT and dropping out, FF and TB slowness became painfully slow especially when i was demostrating mint off to work colleges, and the networking in a windows environment was terrible (meaning was unable to miunt windows shares without trolling back and forth in these forums looking at how to hack the smb / some sort of conf file and manually add static IP's into it and then re-browse the network. it wasnt a good selling point to anyone i tried to show mint of to. yes they were impressed with the layout and pretty colours here and there, but the main underlaying issues made a zero selling point. the only thing i found people to know linux of was the fact that virus and malwares are aalmost 100% harmless to linux, thats the only thing i found people knew linux of and besides that, they just wernt interested in rebuilding the OS to make their OS work for them - especially the networking side of it.

but in saying that, by no means am i saying that this OS is rubbish, far from it, it just needs to concentrate on outstanding issues (especially the networking side) instead of having competions on desktop arts and themes and un-polished distro releases every 6 months (an yes, its getting bloatier at every release - that grub 2 menu boot / splash screen, my god, whats with that? - mint 7 was great in loading up speed wise - i perssonally found mint8 / 9.10 to boot to desktop with wifi longer or the same as xp / w7)

[Husse]

releases every 6 months

I agree with you there - it's way too often but I think that's the prise to pay for the Ubuntu base and I also agree that the looks is far less important than the "works"
However the look is what catches the eye....

[Memoox]

I can't believe most people in the last few pages are leaving linux because it's easier???????

I dare microsoft to come up with something like aptitude or yum or something. everything in windows is done byt INSTALLING something.

Some people are expecting a better operative system, but they don't know what that means really, it's a group of small programas that let you USE or SYSTEM, it makes me laugh when people think they know how to use their computers just because they can POINT AND CLIC, haha, remember DOS?

I'm a newbie to linux but I KNOW WHAT IT IS, AND I'M LEARNING TO USE IT
like the article says, maybe not explicitly, most people just don't know what a computer is, they just think is something to check the web and chat.

[ibm450]

I can't believe most people in the last few pages are leaving linux because it's easier???????

I dare microsoft to come up with something like aptitude or yum or something. everything in windows is done byt INSTALLING something.

Some people are expecting a better operative system, but they don't know what that means really, it's a group of small programas that let you USE or SYSTEM, it makes me laugh when people think they know how to use their computers just because they can POINT AND CLIC, haha, remember DOS?

I'm a newbie to linux but I KNOW WHAT IT IS, AND I'M LEARNING TO USE IT
like the article says, maybe not explicitly, most people just don't know what a computer is, they just think is something to check the web and chat.

-o0o-

when my clients ask me about computers, i basically tell them that computers are a waste of money because people use it majority of the time as a gaming console and spend thousands of dollars just to make it play their fav game at high frame rates. i tell them straight that they are fools for spending so much $$$ on their pc just to make the games work were as the pc is really a TOOL, like a tool for a tradesman to get the work done, simple fact. a pc, its a over sized, powerful calculator.

i tell my clients instead of spending hundreds to thousands of $$ for a pc to do basic email and net surfing but sole reason is to play the latest major games when bored, i suggest that they spend about $900 and get a half decent lappie or a small factor pc to do their daily computing , and spend a further say $600 for a PlayStation or xbox to play games on, were as these gaming consoles are purely designed for that 1 reason only, games.

now in saying that, why i left linux, well, ive listed then above. it was abit of a painful task to get linux running the way i wanted to get certain basic jobs i wanted to do in a timely manner - i.e. out of the box networking i had major headaches over it and basically, non of my work colleges or even my clients that i showed were simply NOT interested in hacking config files to get it to browse their private network at home or even to join up to their relatives network on the go without hacking the smb files -- they just want it to work as they just want to drive their new toy not let the toy drive them (ive noticed its a big grey area in linux and simply put, seems to get ignored to resolve as its expected for people to forum troll for hours to get either their hardware to work or networking to stay alive or to join a workgroup of some sort)

i do alot of in-house programming, web-design, use micro$ office 75% of the time and in house databases designs and i found doing the same tasks in linux was actually alot slower and far more frustrating.

so as far as people dont know what a pc is for or as you stated that a pc is for simple ponit and clicks and simple exe installs, i strongly disagree with you there. the world is 10 times more pc literate the you think today then it was back in my old Atari 600XL, basic programming, was. now days there is heaps of DYI fix its and heaps of resources at your local news agency and library to fix either your xp right up to the latest m$ servers. linux just needs tonns more hardware support to make it in par with m$, till then linux will always be for that small group of people that the OS is designed for to hack, apply tons of fancy themes and icons, do endless geeky terminal prompts and wave banners that linux will rule the world (we have all heard it before for the last 20 years that a m$ destroying linux distro is near...20 yrs have past, were is this distro??????),and frankly, its become a toy that one gets sick off very quick. it has alot of potential, BUT.......

my 10 cent rant, not 2.....

[tower]

i tell my clients instead of spending hundreds to thousands of $$ for a pc to do basic email and net surfing but sole reason is to play the latest major games when bored, i suggest that they spend about $900 and get a half decent lappie or a small factor pc to do their daily computing , and spend a further say $600 for a PlayStation or xbox to play games on, were as these gaming consoles are purely designed for that 1 reason only, games.

IIRC you can surf the internet and email via a console too so why advise them to buy the "lappie", they could save another $900 ?

[ibm450]

i tell my clients instead of spending hundreds to thousands of $$ for a pc to do basic email and net surfing but sole reason is to play the latest major games when bored, i suggest that they spend about $900 and get a half decent lappie or a small factor pc to do their daily computing , and spend a further say $600 for a PlayStation or xbox to play games on, were as these gaming consoles are purely designed for that 1 reason only, games.

IIRC you can surf the internet and email via a console too so why advise them to buy the "lappie", they could save another $900 ?

-o0o-

Well for a very simple and obvious reasons, that's what they wanted as a second option, and 7 out of 10 clients always request some sort of netbook to laptop because they want mobility, so i suggest lappies first up ....

[ratspeaker]

Linux is certainly not windows. Windows has its faults, has a bad corporate philosophy, but mainly it works. I would love to switch to Linux, and have tried many times to do so, but in the end I just get fed up with constantly having to struggle to get and keep the system running. Now I'm not afraid to learn new stuff, I'm not fazed by a command prompt but quite frankly Linux just has to many problems on the desktop to make it a worthwhile operating system. It's fine on a limited vanilla hardware platform of the kind corporate entities are fond of, where the manufacturer has written and tested drivers for it, but throw anything reasonably modern at it and its a disaster. I have in my time tried:

Ubuntu - worked fine for a while after I had spent hours getting the multimedia to work and wrestling with video drivers then next update, random freezes. Spent days on forums trying to track down why, no clues in the logs just random freezes and no one it would seem had a solution.

Mint - worked fine apart from sound, stupid pulse audio just refused to work, removed it got sound going the trusted ALSA way, started to sort it how I wanted it, then it updated some files and then it boots to a blank screen. Oh dear windows XP has never done that to me.

debian - didn't even install synaptic or set up repositories, no proper nvidea driver installed, no multimedia codecs, no office suite, wouldn't mind but it takes endless hours to get anything near a base system working. Windows XP - point, click, sorted.

Thats just three, and my opinion of Linux remains the same - It will be ok when its finished, at the moment its far from finished. The graphical tools are like half finished toys, too much development is been done on the sexy, glitzy bits before the basics are sorted and quite frankly I want to use my PC not spend all my time on it administering it and sorting stupid problems. As I say I really would like Linux to work but often it doesn't and where windows wins is in its sheer sloppyness. Windows works most of the time despite user mistakes. Linux is unforgiving, difficult and requires time and patience and will thus never appeal to joe public.

[Memoox]

You are all asking things of linux comparing it to windows when are not the same things

linux kernel lets us manipulate our computer in order to use it, and the main point of linux is to create a open souce free kernel.

windows kernel and all Microsoft products in general, (not office is really good and i use it a lot, may i like it haha), they all suck!

now you are all comparing a multimillionaire company that can pay a lot of engineers to work on their programs, to a bunch of a good hearted people that give their spare (and sometimes more) time to develep a powerful kernel for you tu use for free.

stop complaining if you don't want to learn and think, then PAY for it, computer knowledge is not free and is not easy and i believe engineers should be paid for their work.

Linux gives the opportunity of having the same thing for free, for YOU to do whatever you want to it, just learn to use it.

But yeah, is always easier to blame the kernel don't you?

[michael.conner]

If Linux doesn't do for you what Windows does, then use Windows. It's that simple. Freedom of choice is what Linux is about, even if it's the freedom to not use it. Just MHO.

[c30zD]

I like it

[clif1982]

Carlos (excellent article, by the way): "It's not just about "Why should I want Linux?". It's also about "Why should Linux want me?""
Bill Gates: "If you don't like it, tough crap. You got nothing else." (Laughs outloud), of course you could learn "Linux". If they want you."
Mrs. Gates: " But Bill, I heard you don't have to purchase a "license" in Linux.
Bill: "Communists! Thats what they are. ergo: "Red" Hat. Besides, we're easier to use."

Clif: Bill, you're a jerk. We're the ones who get used. Linux doesn't try to be the same. They're different. Not as in "98-xp upgrade...different, but they're not windows.

God: Carlos, be nice. This love it or leave it crap doesn't do your credibility any good at all.
Carlos: Oh yeah, so you're saying you love Bill Gates?
God: Hey smart aleck, no bodys perfect.

God: Clif, shut the hell up. Carlos can work linux and you can't. You should be more respective!
God: Mrs. Gates, wouldn't it be ironic if it were "YOU" that had to pay for your renewable marriage license?
God: Bill, please go to hell, hell, hell! (no license required)

[deeplyconfused]

Easy people. I'm a newbie to Linux - but am experienced with Windows and OSX environments. Setting up my Mint HTPC has been a struggle to say the least - but it is now working brilliantly. I have learnt a great deal about the way that computers and networks work and have enjoyed the process - but I'm sad that way. Linux is for hobbiests. Everytime I power up XBMC - or access the shared drive across the network I feel a sense of geeky pride. Frankly, if you don't enjoy the process, and have the money and the hardware, then choose another OS - I'd suggest OSX - it's really very good.

Mint isn't point-and-click. It probably won't do what you want it to do out of the box. You will have to spend time trolling these boards to get answers.

Mint is secure. It is able to run on lower spec machines. It is rewarding. It is supported by many extremely helpful people on these boards who give their time for nothing. It's also free.

You pays your money and takes your choice!