Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

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Should Mint Be More Dial-Up Friendly?

Yes, certainly
20
77%
That would be nice but I don't consider it a high priority
2
8%
No, why should we be bothered with such peasants?
0
No votes
No opinion
1
4%
Other, please specify and explain
3
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Total votes : 26

Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby Digital_Resistance on Sun Apr 18, 2010 7:17 pm

Hello,

I need to know which versions of Mint come with a dial-up GUI "out-of-the-box".

(I am talking about connecting to the Internet with a modem via plain old telephone lines at 56k or-less; not any type of ADSL , DSL, fiber-optic or other form of broadband/ high-speed)

I have searched both Google as well as this forum. I have read the release notices for both the new LXDE as well as XFCE versions, from where I downloaded the PDF User Manuals for each. (These actually appeared to be duplicates of a single manual for the standard GNOME edition of Mint- despite the different file sizes)

All to no avail; such basic information: whether or not the respective edition includes a dial-up GUI, was nowhere to be found.

(Unfortunately, this is hardly unique to Mint; I have had the same exasperating experience with most of the other distros that I have also searched for such information on)

I know that Mint 7 Xfce comes with Chestnut Dialer but were any changes made in this regard to 8?

What about the new LXDE edition?

Also, I am all but certain that the standard 8 edition does not include a dial-up GUI. (I know Ubuntu no longer does)

What is the reason for this?

I realize that as a dial-up user, I am in a continually dwindling minority but there are still a sizable number of us left.

(In addition to those in remote areas without affordable broadband options, there are also more than a few -- even in major cities-- who either remain with or even have reverted-to dial-up for economic reasons; as low as the cost of broadband has dropped, dial-up is still available for a fraction of that or even completely free in many areas of the U.S. at least)

Is there a compelling reason why the ease-of-use and maximum compatibility/functionality out-of-the-box that Mint prides itself on should not extend to dial-up users?

I hope this criticism will be taken in the constructive spirit it was intended; Mint seems like a fine accomplishment to me and I appreciate all of the work and dedication of the many who make it possible.
"The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards - and even then I have my doubts." ~ Gene Spafford
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby MALsPa on Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:26 pm

It does seem that many distros are ignoring dial-up users. In the past, the KDE distros I've used always came with kppp, but I don't know if that's still the case with KDE4 distros. And how about Mint KDE -- anyone using dial-up with that?

I don't know, maybe there aren't enough dial-up users making noise about the issue. Or else the devs just don't care. But dial-up users have it tough enough. Most of the time, I'm sure that dial-up users have very little choice about the type of connection they can use. It would seem that including something like gnome-ppp or kppp, and making sure that it works, would not be such a big deal. I'm sure that a lot of dial-up users would gladly sacrifice some of the glitz and bloat that are being thrown in on today's distros for a nice, small, dial-up GUI.

I'm not even using dial-up at the moment, but until recently I was using it for years, and it isn't out of the question that I might have to go back to using it. I don't mind the slow speeds when I know that the money saved is going towards something more important. I hope Linux devs don't continue to leave dial-up users hanging out to dry.
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby MALsPa on Sun Apr 18, 2010 9:36 pm

Digital_Resistance wrote:Is there a compelling reason why the ease-of-use and maximum compatibility/functionality out-of-the-box that Mint prides itself on should not extend to dial-up users?


Good question!
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby Midnighter on Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:40 am

As someone only having access to broadband the last couple years, i too found it quite frustrating trying to connect to dialup with many distros. PCLinuxOS at least was easy enough to connect with, and is probably one of the reasons I stuck with it for so long (besides it just being good and easy to use. :) ).

But yes, many seem to be ignoring a good percentage of users still stuck on dialup, either unable to afford it, not have access to it, or any of a number of other reasons.
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby Digital_Resistance on Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:04 am

Thanks for the replies.

I will again ask if anyone can specify which current editions of Mint come with a dial-up GUI. I have been delaying ordering from OSDisc.com in the hopes of obtaining this information first.
"The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards - and even then I have my doubts." ~ Gene Spafford
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby Midnighter on Wed Apr 21, 2010 3:16 am

Main Edition (Gnome) does not come with a dial-up app installed. Gnome-PPP is what you would want, but it does not come pre-installed. Which is quite inconvenient for those wanting to use it but limited to dialup. I don't use the other versions, so cannot answer for them.
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby Digital_Resistance on Fri May 07, 2010 7:02 pm

Thanks again Midnighter.

I see that the release announcement for Mint 9 "Isadora" RC ( http://www.linuxmint.com/blog/?p=1386 ) lists the addition of GNOME PPP.

I wonder if I had anything to do with that.

In the thread for the release notice for Mint 8 Xfce, someone has confirmed that Chestnut Dialer has been retained.

Now we just need someone to answer whether the LXDE version comes with any dial-up GUI.

EDIT: I see that one user chose "Other, please specify and explain" from my poll selections but apparently did not post. Perhaps they forgot? Or could it have been a bot?
"The only truly secure system is one that is powered off, cast in a block of concrete and sealed in a lead-lined room with armed guards - and even then I have my doubts." ~ Gene Spafford
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby MALsPa on Fri May 07, 2010 7:12 pm

From "What's new in Linux Mint 9 Isadora?" -- http://linuxmint.com/rel_isadora_whatsnew.php:

"Local repository and Gnome-ppp: Linux Mint now includes a local repository activated by default. This repository is located in /usr/share/local-repository and it contains firmware for Broadcom wireless adapters and Gnome-PPP. You can also add packages to it and update the repository by running the ./update-repository script in /usr/share/local-repository."

Does that mean that gnome-ppp is installed by default? I'm not clear on that.
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby A.Tim on Fri May 07, 2010 11:00 pm

I would gather that "Activated by default" would mean that it would be.
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby MALsPa on Fri May 07, 2010 11:10 pm

Yeah, you're probably right. I had a bit of trouble understanding what was being said, precisely. If gnome-ppp is in the local repository, why isn't it simply installed, I wonder?
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby Kendall on Fri May 07, 2010 11:12 pm

The Xfce, LXDE, and Fluxbox editions of Mint 8 have Chestnut Dialer installed by default. Rest assured the LXDE and Fluxbox editions of Mint 9 will have it as well, presumably merlwiz79 will keep it in the Xfce edition also.
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby A.Tim on Fri May 07, 2010 11:41 pm

MALsPa wrote:Yeah, you're probably right. I had a bit of trouble understanding what was being said, precisely. If gnome-ppp is in the local repository, why isn't it simply installed, I wonder?

That's a very good question; I was wondering that myself. I'm sure there's a good reason for it. Perhaps it gives you more control over which option you choose to connect with. Having those packages "activated" and not installed by default would allow you to choose one option and disregard the other, unusable ones without the need to uninstall software that you won't end up using? That's what I'm thinking.
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby Digital_Resistance on Fri May 14, 2010 11:35 am

Kendall wrote:The Xfce, LXDE, and Fluxbox editions of Mint 8 have Chestnut Dialer installed by default. Rest assured the LXDE and Fluxbox editions of Mint 9 will have it as well, presumably merlwiz79 will keep it in the Xfce edition also.


Thank you very much for that information, Kendall. Great to hear it.

And thanks to MALsPA and A. Tim as well for pointing-out what you did regarding Mint 9 RC.

Hope everyone has a good weekend.
:)
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby Captbry on Sat Oct 09, 2010 1:31 am

A SEARCH for "gnome-ppp" came up with this message:

"Information
No posts were found because the word gnome-ppp is not contained in any post.
Return to advanced search"


So I'll write my recent experience with Isadora and Gnome-ppp

SHORT; Keep the Downloaded Packages *.deb on a disk and load at LEAST:
gnome-ppp, wvdial, libwvstreams, libuniconf, with the Package Manager onto a fresh install or even a Live CD session
I use sudo nautilus command to get root access to get these files in the right place (eg EXTRACT to / )

With Linux Mint 8 i would Download Packages (save to an archive drive) to create a re-usable non-internet dependent means of setting up or restoring Ubuntu/Mint systems.

Using the Package Manager, there is a cool 'Add Downloaded Packages' option which I would navigate over to the mounted archive drive and highlight the folder with the Mint Packages stored there.
The Package Manager would Install all the packages therein. Some are Dependent on others, so running the Add Packages 3 times got the dependencies worked out.

If the Package Manager won't do this automatically ( like my Isadora DEBIAN 686 won't ...?...)
then you must Extract the files to the / folder manually.
Run sudo gnome-ppp from a terminal so you can get root privileges and SEE the text-errors in the terminal window. These will tell you what dependencies are missing, if any.

ALSO; the USB Um185 modem mounts as a cd-rom (internal firmware drivers) gnome-ppp won't DETECT the modem until it is no longer a cd-rom drive. In a Terminal i type eject sr1 (sr0 is my real DVD R/W drive)
if it unmounts OK, the terminal will just go to a new line with no messages.
THEN type sudo gnome-ppp and it should detect OK. Click "stupid mode" for simplicities sake and set up as usual for your modem.

I just got dail-up working this way and was surprised to get a ZERO FIND on a "gnome-ppp" search in this forum.
hope this helps someone,
Cheers!
CaptB

FYI, Cricket "broadband" is NOT unlimited as the adds say. After 5gb at about 115Kb/s, you are reduced to 20Kb/s, then get dumped 1 second after login... if you persist in using their bandwidth even at the ridiculously slow 20Kb/s. Cricket has told me that technically, i can still connect and therefore it is still "unlimited", even if NO USER DATA can be Tx/Rx-ed. LoL.
Lawyers redefine the language AGAIN - ye hav been warrrrrnded, Maytee!
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby /Zoran\ on Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:00 am

Can anybody tell me if Mint 10 comes with dial up support?
Currently i don't have it installed, but i don't have any modems installed on my pc, so maybe that's why it didn't get installed.

It would be nice to know that i can install mint on my friends machines which sadly don't have access to broadband.
I see that LMDE comes with this:
Better connectivity and hardware support (pppoe, pppoeconf, gnome-ppp, pppconfig, libgl1-mesa-dri, libgl1-mesa-glx, libgl1-mesa-dev, mesa-utils installed by default)

PLEASE don't be hating on us dialupers, if it's not already in the Mint DVD release please add it, it's dvd after all, there's room on it :D .
Thanks.
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby Digital_Resistance on Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:54 am

/Zoran\ wrote:Can anybody tell me if Mint 10 comes with dial up support?[...]

I see that LMDE comes with this:
Better connectivity and hardware support (pppoe, pppoeconf, gnome-ppp, pppconfig, libgl1-mesa-dri, libgl1-mesa-glx, libgl1-mesa-dev, mesa-utils installed by default)


I do not see anything like this mentioned in the announcement for the main Mint edition or any of the other editions I looked at.

It seems strange to me for the Debian edition to include GPPP but not the main edition.

Also, I as well as others have found the Chestnut Dialer included in some Mint editions did not work. See:
viewtopic.php?f=175&t=53893

It would be nice to hear an update on that situation as well.

Thanks for posting that info, Captbry.
Last edited by Digital_Resistance on Mon Apr 04, 2011 10:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby /Zoran\ on Wed Mar 02, 2011 11:17 am

I agree. the only thing i don't like about linux is it's dependence on the internet when it comes to installing drivers or programs.....
And i know you can install it from .debs or compile it from source, but if you don't have access to internet in the first place it's kinda hard to do that, because there aren't that many .debs made (at lease that's my impression, correct me if i'm wrong), and one thing about both .debs and compiling from source is that you will most probably need to install dependencies for which you again need internet. And another thing is that most of the users will need to search how to's on installing and configuring the driver and again if you need it for modem it impossible....

So I strongly recommend increasing the support for modems and internet access in general, if it's not already in the installation DVD, because broadband isn't possible everywhere, and if people can't access the internet from linux they won't use it.
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby Mintopia on Wed Mar 30, 2011 12:29 am

I have wracked my brain with the same problem till I found out about US Robotics http://www.usr.com/products/modem/modem-product.asp?sku=USR5637 they provide Linux compatible dialup modems. I am not sure were I heard about them but there are 70 links here http://forums.linuxmint.com/search.php. I am thinking of getting one myself.

Presently I have Linux Mint 10 In VirtualBox on a Vista Compaq Presario; I would like to connect to the internet from a hard drive installation.

Good luck:
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby Digital_Resistance on Thu Mar 31, 2011 3:01 am

I've had the USR5637 USB modem that Mintopia just posted about for almost
a full year now. I paid $44.99 for it at
[url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16825104006]NewEgg[/url
] (currently$42.99), where you can see many positive reviews for using this
modem with Linux. (Just type "Linux" into the search filter that appears just
above the reviews)

Using this modem, I have consistently established and maintained solid dial-up
connections at speeds between just over 49 kbps to just over 53 kbs in several
GNU/Linux distros.

For some reason, the "detect" function in GPPP (perhaps KPPP as well) does not always pick-up the modem but all I have had to do when that happens is manually enter or select /dev/ttyACM0 (that's a zero) in Gnome PPP or KPPP and the modem has been recognized and able to dial-out.

( Faxing has been another story, however. I did not have success
when trying to fax with this modem but I don't know that the problem was
with the modem itself. )

I also don't know about the modem on hold feature, as I have not had
success with TuxCall, the only Linux alternative I have found to the
Windows programs that allow you to see the I.D. of any incoming calls while you
are online and decide whether to take them or not.)
...

As I have learned from experience, however, having your modem detected is only
the first step; you then need the right software to establish and
maintain a solid dial-up connection. Then, for it to be recognized and function
properly, you must have the right system configuration. And for a Linux
distro to come "dial-up ready" "out-of-the-box" seems to be more the
exception than the rule.

It was pointed-out in a
[url=http://www.linuxgator.org/gnome/forum/viewtopic.php?uid=2736&f=5&t=3144&
start=0]thread[/url] at the forums for the Gnome edition of PcLinuxOS that many,
if not most, devs today simply do not have access to the equipment (POTS modem)
and/or resources (land line, ISP) that are necessary in order test dial-up
functionality.

Addendum: Some Other Possible Hardware-Based Modem Options

Another possible option for a USB modem that is less than half the
price of the USR5637 is the
[url=http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16825164005]Rosewill
RNX-56USB[/url]. It uses a Conexant chipset and also has a number of positive
reviews for Linux use. (Though be sure to see the recent review claiming this
modem is not up to handling poor-quality phone lines in a rural area as well as
the many reviews regarding caller I.D., if either are an issue for you)

The occupation of a USB port is an obvious down side to a USB modem, especially
for laptop users, for whom an even greater nuisance can be having to deal with
an extra object that hangs-out from the laptop. Unless properly supported by
something, this puts obvious stress on the modem's cord and moving around at all
can easily cause it to become disconnected.

Still, for most people, myself included, all of this beats the wild goose chase
like experience that trying to get an internal modem-- almost always a
software-based Winmodem-- to work with Linux can be.

PCMCIA ("PC-card") modems may be an option for those who still have the
slot for them but they seem to be becoming obsolete.

My 11-year-old Dell Latitude C600 has two PCMCIA slots. I have used a 3Com
3cxm556
PCMCIA fax/modem that's at least as old the computer in antiX 8.2
and 8.5. This modem also worked with Puppy 4.3.1 but is not detected by
Wary Puppy 5.1.1.

My newer Dell Inspiron b120 does not have any PCMCIA slots.
Last edited by Digital_Resistance on Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dial-Up GUI: In Which Editions?!

Postby gene on Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:57 pm

LM13 Mate DVD Edn has a dialup GUI (Gnome-PPP), and has the apps to get dialup internet connected (out of the box).
There is a process. It is not obvious to the new Linux user, which is a little disappointing.
It takes maybe 1 hr to set up.

I got dialup going on a generic 56k Serial Modem, with RS232 cable connected to a desktop computer with Com port.

this link describes the process...
viewtopic.php?f=157&t=115291#p661532

G
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