What would it take to make Linux Mint more successfull?

[Hjess]

Hi,

I'm just curios about what other thoughts people had about Linux Mint vs .. well .. Other OS'er (Debian, Ubumtu, Windows..).

What would it take to make Mint even more success full than it is now?

My personal whislist for this would be something like this ..

• .o A perfect sync between my HTC phone, and my girlfriends IPhone. We still need a Virtualbox for syncing music etc to our phones.
  
  .o More gaming support, a start would be a default add of removed to the apt sources (I'm not a "gamer" of such but sometimes its fun
  
  .o Synaptic is great! - but a free (!!) store of movie/music - that could be a great idea for mint (Something like Appstore). Even make some money out of it.
  
  .o More android integration whit varios programs.
  
  .o A system to minimize the efforts of upgrading from one release to another. Maybe upload a list of installed programs to a server and reinstall this list of programs again after a upgrade?

The problem as I see it is that a lot of these issues are not OS mined but program minded. Like syncing my HTC phone whit Thunderbird is not Linux Mint "problem". But how cool could it be to say "Hey I've installed Linux Mint so now I can sync anything.."

[curmudgeon]

Mint isn't really be the type of distro that comes with software intended for niche markets. It sure is easy to install software though.

[FedoraRefugee]

I think they should lower the price! If it were free then EVERYONE would use it!!!

[vrkalak]

LinuxMint is 'already' listed in the Top Ten Linux Distributions in the World.

http://distrowatch.com/dwres.php?resource=major

How much 'more successful' do you want?


Sheeesh ... give people something great for 'nothing' ... and they complain about it.

[chipps61]

The tone in this forum lately is beginning to disturb me. When I first fired up Linux Mint 8 main back in January this seemed like a nice friendly place where it was just users helping users. Lately it's deteriorated to "posts of help" consisting of nothing but links to other places, and sarcasm. I'll keep checking in, but lighten up guys... not everyone is a guru, and some of us are coming here with legitimate questions on how to do things or suggestions for improvement, and are greeted instead with the above.

The whole "Ask for a refund" thing as a response to someone rubs me completely the wrong way. Almost all distributions of Linux are free, and it isn't the point.

I'm sorry if this comes off the wrong way, but in the last 3 to 6 months (actually since the passing of Husse), things have changed a bit around here. It just isn't as interesting to read as it used to be. Rant over... we now return you to your local forum.

Cheerz...

[FedoraRefugee]

The tone in this forum lately is beginning to disturb me. When I first fired up Linux Mint 8 main back in January this seemed like a nice friendly place where it was just users helping users. Lately it's deteriorated to "posts of help" consisting of nothing but links to other places, and sarcasm. I'll keep checking in, but lighten up guys... not everyone is a guru, and some of us are coming here with legitimate questions on how to do things or suggestions for improvement, and are greeted instead with the above.

The whole "Ask for a refund" thing as a response to someone rubs me completely the wrong way. Almost all distributions of Linux are free, and it isn't the point.

I'm sorry if this comes off the wrong way, but in the last 3 to 6 months (actually since the passing of Husse), things have changed a bit around here. It just isn't as interesting to read as it used to be. Rant over... we now return you to your local forum.

Cheerz...

Sometimes the best response is a link to another thread or tutorial that solves the OP's problem. What is wrong with that? Does it lack the "personal touch?"

I have to admit, I can be mighty sarcastic. Sometimes even to the point of rudeness, like the above post. It is just me. I am sorry if your skin is too thin for this kind of banter, I would love to see you on a job site with my crew, I imagine if posts in here bother you then they would literally eat you alive before lunch! It is a rough world and many of us are still blunt and to the point. I do not apologize for that, though when I do actually offend someone or step across that line I will be the first to publicly apologize.

But all that aside, my point, and I think I can speak for vrkalak, is that many of us are satisfied with this OS and do not feel Mint NEEDS to be more successful. Can it be improved? Of course! Can it become better and more popular? Sure! But these brainstorming threads are just silly. Everyone has their own ideas and criteria. In the end the only opinion that matters is Clem's and the few people he has around him that actually build this distro. If you like it then great! If not, then just find another distro! It really does not matter, there is no benefit in having more Mint users! Just more noise in the forum! If Clem keeps building the quality distro that Mint has been then the user base will expand. The "ask for a refund" thing is the whole point! If you are not satisfied then find something that does satisfy you! You have nothing invested in this distro, it is free, there for the taking. The beauty of FOSS is if you do not feel the quality is there then you are more than free to fix it how YOU think it should be!

[chipps61]

Actually Fedora, I wasn't speaking about this particular topic specifically but about the forum in general lately, so sorry if it came across that way... I just happened to be here when I finally spoke up. Yes, sometimes a post to an obvious link that the OP may have overlooked or not even looked for in the first place is the best course of action, but often it isn't... in fact one of the responses to me personally in weeks / months past was nothing more than a google search linking to pages I'd already seen many times before, and it actually pissed me off, because when I clicked on the link, a single word was apparently typed into Google (it was highlighted upon clicking) and brought up a page that I'd not only seen before, but REFERENCED in the original post... how do you think that makes somebody feel? Like... you think I didn't already do that, only with MORE CRITERIA, or what?

And me, thin skinned? LOL... hardly. I'll never get off level 1 on here and that doesn't matter, I'm 49 years old and literally don't care what anyone thinks about me. I'm just here for the beer and the OS, if I have an answer somewhere in my head for somebody I'll post it, even if it's wrong.

What is different about Mint is what everyone already knows, and that is that is "just works", which is why so many have come to this distribution over time. You're right on much of what you say... I'm not disputing that in the slightest. And we both know that whatever happens with Mint in the future is all based on wherever Clem thinks it should go. Actually I'm not sure what else to say on the subject!

Personally (to ensure I'll stay at Level 1), my current distro I've been playing with is Ultimate Edition 2.6. Their web site looks like it's maintained by technically competent 14 year olds, but that aside I actually like the distro and have been booting into that for the last week. Frankly, what I learned from Mint has helped me tame that to what I'm really looking for, and a lot of that I have to thank for this very forum that I'm currently princess about.

So actually I'm not sure what I'm really saying! LOL

Carry on...

[MALsPa]

chipps61 may be right about the tone of these forums lately. I mentioned it to someone else about a week ago, that the Mint forums aren't as nice as they used to be.

For all of us, it probably wouldn't hurt to chill, take a step away from the computer before posting replies, be a little less argumentative, try not to come across sounding so hostile, that sort of thing. It would make these forums a better place. Not trying to lecture anyone, because I am trying to keep those things in mind for myself.

[FedoraRefugee]

I'll try...Sometimes it aint so easy though...

[mick55]

I think they should lower the price! If it were free then EVERYONE would use it!!!

[MALsPa]

Of course, my initial reaction to the question "What would it take to make Linux Mint more successful?" was this:

More successful than what? It's already one of the most popular distros out there. How do we want to define success?

But I think the the real point that the OP was trying to make was, "What kind of things would we like to see that would make Mint better?" Kind of a recurring theme around here, but the exchange of ideas can't hurt.

[FedoraRefugee]

Of course, my initial reaction to the question "What would it take to make Linux Mint more successful?" was this:

More successful than what? It's already one of the most popular distros out there. How do we want to define success?

But I think the the real point that the OP was trying to make was, "What kind of things would we like to see that would make Mint better?" Kind of a recurring theme around here, but the exchange of ideas can't hurt.

It is just one of about 20 threads lately that follow the same vein. Everything from basing Mint on debian to the Ubuntu LTS releases. Some want to get rid of Gimp and others think we need to move to a DVD that offers everything including the kitchen sink. And on and on it goes...

Am I against the flow of ideas? No, that is why we are here. I am just tired, it has been a long day, and I am just seeing the futility of reading constant opinions of what each person's idea of Mint is.

In the end I think Mint has done as well as anyone could possibly expect in the few years it has existed. From the brain of a single man it has grown to be the most recommended distro for the new user. It has a menu that is being emulated in many other distros not to mention a slew of other custom tools. It is stable, attractive, and probably the easiest install in the entire Linux pantheon. Yet people are still asking how it could be MORE successful? Sheesh...To tell you the truth, I really do not know!

[Chasester]

Think of someone who's new to Mint, happy and proud that it works just fantastic for them. They excitedly tell their family, their friends. Then want to think of a way to efficiently tell the world. For they themselves just happened to stumble across it. and excitedly come up with ideas - and just didn't think about searching the forums first.

And in response they get unwarranted sarcasm.

Not very cool Fedora.

Who cares if there are 20 other threads along the same topic. how is that a *bad* thing for Mint? Wouldn't it be a whole lot more objective than to simply say nothing rather than irritate and confirm what the user's been told all these years that Linux guys are just plain a-holes.

[waldo]

Think of someone who's new to Mint, happy and proud that it works just fantastic for them. They excitedly tell their family, their friends. Then want to think of a way to efficiently tell the world. For they themselves just happened to stumble across it. and excitedly come up with ideas - and just didn't think about searching the forums first.

And in response they get unwarranted sarcasm.

Not very cool Fedora.

Who cares if there are 20 other threads along the same topic. how is that a *bad* thing for Mint? Wouldn't it be a whole lot more objective than to simply say nothing rather than irritate and confirm what the user's been told all these years that Linux guys are just plain a-holes.

Excellent post, Chaseter.

I've called FedoraRef on this before, and he doesn't seem to care. He seems to take pride in being one of those Linux guys users have been told about. One or two others always come to his defense, pointing out (correctly) that he does often help with good technical advice. It is obvious that he is very knowledgeable about Linux.

Too bad his misplaced penchant for testing the skin thickness of others subtracts (substantially, in my opinion) from his contributions . A Linux forum is no place for interacting the same as one would motivating a crew on a job site. It's difficult to fathom how anyone could believe that to be so.

[midas]

I would love to see you on a job site with my crew, I imagine if posts in here bother you then they would literally eat you alive before lunch!

Yeah...we can shake hands Fedorarefugee...I work in the building- and technical construction world! But no need to take THAT atmosphere into this forum

Yes, there are 20 topics or even more in the forum now how Mint could become even better. For me it is not about issues like if the GIMP has to be added to the downloadable ISO yes or no....but everything about quality and stability on the long term. What I love about the Mint-community and the distribution as a whole is that every-one is concerned with eachother and de future of this distro.

But something that is alarming me are articles like this:

http://unixmen.com/news-today/998-btrfs ... buntu-1010

In what degree Ubuntu is using us as guinea-pigs? Andwhat are the consequences for Mint?

[tinca]

Think of someone who's new to Mint, happy and proud that it works just fantastic for them. They excitedly tell their family, their friends. Then want to think of a way to efficiently tell the world. For they themselves just happened to stumble across it. and excitedly come up with ideas - and just didn't think about searching the forums first.

And in response they get unwarranted sarcasm.

Not very cool Fedora.

Who cares if there are 20 other threads along the same topic. how is that a *bad* thing for Mint? Wouldn't it be a whole lot more objective than to simply say nothing rather than irritate and confirm what the user's been told all these years that Linux guys are just plain a-holes.

I think that you have given the reason for some of the less than accommodating replies. You say "and just didn't think about searching the forums first".

Now there is my pet dislike. It is blatantly obvious to all and sundry that most newcomers arrive at the forum, do not read the rules and do not bother to lookup problems and replies, and ask or make the same old "how to make it better" etc. It is annoying to say the least and nowadays I do not even take part in that type of thread, being more than happy to let them complain amongst themselves.

Another annoyance to me personally is the cryptic text that is now being used when asking for help. Titles like "pls help me". Any post that does not contain a brief description of the problem, I do not even open.

To all of you newcomers. Read the rules, check the the search box, and put a description of your problem in the title of your post. Non of this is very difficult, but it does take a little more effort

Best regards Keith

[randomizer]

Another annoyance to me personally is the cryptic text that is now being used when asking for help. Titles like "pls help me". Any post that does not contain a brief description of the problem, I do not even open.

You should see the forum I moderate. I get threads entitled "1", "hi" "PLZ HALP ME CHOOSE!!!!", "SOMETHING IS WRONG WITH MY COMPOOPER!!!" and sometimes just the person's username or email address. Hundreds of these every week... Now as for the thread content, well that's a whole other story. But anyway, I had best not hijack the thread any longer.

[FedoraRefugee]

Think of someone who's new to Mint, happy and proud that it works just fantastic for them. They excitedly tell their family, their friends. Then want to think of a way to efficiently tell the world. For they themselves just happened to stumble across it. and excitedly come up with ideas - and just didn't think about searching the forums first.

And in response they get unwarranted sarcasm.

Not very cool Fedora.

Who cares if there are 20 other threads along the same topic. how is that a *bad* thing for Mint? Wouldn't it be a whole lot more objective than to simply say nothing rather than irritate and confirm what the user's been told all these years that Linux guys are just plain a-holes.

[quote=""Waldo"]Excellent post, Chaseter.

I've called FedoraRef on this before, and he doesn't seem to care. He seems to take pride in being one of those Linux guys users have been told about. One or two others always come to his defense, pointing out (correctly) that he does often help with good technical advice. It is obvious that he is very knowledgeable about Linux.

Too bad his misplaced penchant for testing the skin thickness of others subtracts (substantially, in my opinion) from his contributions . A Linux forum is no place for interacting the same as one would motivating a crew on a job site. It's difficult to fathom how anyone could believe that to be so.[/quote]

Heh, I am starting a fan club!!!

Chasester, It has nothing to do with searching the forums! It has everything to do with the fact that every single noob that tries Mint seems to have to start a thread on how we need to do all these things to improve it, to make it be more like their vision of what an OS should be, or else Mint will never be successful and will never beat Windows...It is just silly.

Why would I say nothing when I can irritate others? It gives you an opening to call me an "A-hole!"

Believe me, I am just trying to get others to "get it." Some eventually will others like Waldo never will. I am okay with agreeing to disagree, but this whole "Linux users are all just elitist a-holes" and "Linux needs to become better so it can beat Windows" is simply stupid and you are not only doing a disservice to Linux with this attitude, you will also not be taken seriously by the serious Linux users - Those users who you now call elitist a-holes because they seem to know and understand something that you do not.

Not very cool? So?

Waldo...oh Waldo...What can I say? You simply do not like me! You take it too personal. I am not testing your skin thickness, I really do not care one way or another. I am simply trying to show you that there are other ways to think about Linux. You are choosing to make me an enemy, I have nothing against you. If I have an employee on the job site who feels he can do the job in a better way I will listen to his idea. Then I will explain to him why he is wrong according to my 30 years of experience in the field. It is no different with you. I am sorry you do not like what I have to say, and I am not always right, and I agree that there are no definite in Linux, everything is subjective, but as you acknowledge that I do have some experience then maybe it would be wise to think about what I am taking the time to write. I may be wrong, that is okay. You may disagree with me, that is fine too. But there is a whole other side to Linux that you not only ignore, you attack!

Have you tried Arch yet Waldo? I was serious about that. You envision Linux as a brainless OS that is simply a free substitute for Windows. Because of this you will always see problems with it. It will never be "ready" in your book. You are missing a whole new world Waldo! You are missing the pure, total beauty of Linux. It has never been about a brainless user clicking some GUI tool because he is too scared to open the terminal. It is about putting total control of the OS, both the execution AND the code, into the hands of everyone. It is about you being able to DEVELOP THE SKILLS to do whatever you want with this OS. It is about promoting your bold, fresh (thanks O'Reilly) idea not through irrelevant forum blabbering, but through action! It has NEVER been about taking market share from Microsoft or trying to gain as many mindless users as possible. It is about building a better way to do things. Sometimes better does not equate to easier. The motto for Linux should be "build it and they will come." And they have Waldo! Millions of them! Including you! Some try it and throw up their hands in disgust. Fine! Who cares? Others like what they see and they learn and grow. Then they help others do the same. And the community moves forward. Numbers do not matter Waldo, it is about quality, commitment, growth.

I am just trying to get you to see some of that Waldo. We will not always agree on everything. I have serious differences with many who you claim come running to my aid. There are no cliques or gangs in here, we are all individuals. No one needs to defend me, I stand on my words and ideas. You can like me or not, that does not matter. I am only trying to show you another point of view. It is up to you how you digest that.

[Biker]

Well said, sir. Well said..

[Aging Technogeek]

To all who have posted here and in similar threads elsewhere in these fora.

RANT ALERT!!

There is nothing wrong with wanting to improve Mint or any other Linux OS. This is one of the basic tenets of the FOSS movement. The problem from my viewpoint is the proliferation of this type of topic after every new release Of Mint. Especially when the OP is not trying to make Mint better for ALL users but is trying to optimize it for HIS needs and desires only.

Too many new users ask for new apps to be installed by default when only they or a small niche group actually use the app. I am not saying this applies to this topic but, as a moderator, I see it all too often. These people don't seem to realize that there is only so much space available in the ISO file if you want to keep it on a CD. What more generally useful app would they have the devs remove so that their pet could be added? And what kind of flame war would be started if they got their wish?

As most are new to Linux and Mint, I try to be patient with them and explain the space restrictions. Too often the reply is "I don't care, I want my app in Mint!" Even if an app is available in Synaptic, they want it as part of the basic installation so they don't have to take the time and effort to install it themselves.

The bottom line is Linux is about choices. The distro developer (clem) chooses what goes into the ISO file. If you don't like his choices find a distro that you do like. If you can't do that, take the closest distro to your ideal and learn how to rewrite and modify it to do what you want.

The only problem I have with these multiple posts is that they take up space in the forum and make my job more difficult because these topics can so easily explode into a full blown flame war. Then I have to step in and be the big, bad Moderator and get everyone to play nice or be banned for a period or permanently if warranted. I don't like to do this, so please play nice and let me get on with spam busting, helping people who really need it, and other more enjoyable Moderator stuff.

Oh, well, I volunteered for this so I guess I have to take it all in stride or quit.

END OF RANT ALERT