Thanks but my post was actually directed towards ppl who claim that Mepis can work out of box like Ubuntu.bobcollard wrote:Go here for help;alpha1 wrote:Mepis 8 as well as 8.5 has issues opening my NTFS drives (HArd disk as well as removable).
http://mepislovers.org/forums/index.php
It does not... for you. Does Ubuntu work out of the box for everyone? Of course not.alpha1 wrote:Thanks but my post was actually directed towards ppl who claim that Mepis can work out of box like Ubuntu.
It does not.
Well said, Robin. Over and over, I ask people, "If you are having new problems with Ubuntu 10.04 or Mint 9 that you didn't have with an earlier release, why are don't you revert?"Robin wrote:I absolutely loved Ubuntu (and Mint!) and never had a technical issue (although I've always objected to the inclusion of beta software in a distro that bills itself as "beginner-friendly") until Lucid. And I looked forward very much to Lucid for two reasons:
1. It's a LTS version so I could share it with others knowing it will be supported for a good long while, and
2. For the first time an Ubuntu release was being based on Debian Testing instead of Debian Unstable. I hoped that it would mean "more stable, less prone to breakage" than the usual non-LTS releases.
Okay, so maybe number two describes unrealistic expectations, but "everyone knows," I think, that Debian Testing is more stable than Debian Unstable, right? Perhaps I should have known that even Lenny in Canonical's hands could become outright volatile and crash-prone.
Updates killed my Xubuntu 10.04, which for the first time included PulseAudio (why? No default program in Xubuntu 10.04 depends on it), which I instantly removed first thing, and Plymouth (trouble free on my machine, but I've read that it causes video problems on alot of common hardware - so why use it in a LTS release? Is super-fast boot time really important enough to cripple people's video?).
It's some of their policies that don't make any sense to me, but Ubuntu remains a great distro IF people generally stick to these two rules, which I would recommend to anyone new to Linux:
Ubuntu/Mint users should -
1. - Stay (at least) one release behind the current release, since it's almost never safe and stable at release time. Months later, it'll be alot safer and more reliable.
2. - Set up the Update Manager to accept only security updates and ignore the "recommended" updates that are known to b0rk a perfectly good working system.
Following one or both of those "rules" would probably make Ubuntu safe and fun to use. Of course the Mint team is able to "catch" alot of the junk coming at their users from upstream, but when a release is new, that flotsam from upstream is coming down quickly, furiously, and in large quantities!
-Robin
True enough. That's yet another good reason for most folks to stay one release behind the current one! Using the newest release, right after it has been released, is almost like testing, since there are really so few testers who know how to test and how to report results and all that. As for beta software being included in a "ready" release, take PulseAudio for example. Or Grub2. Both were specifically labeled as beta yet found their way into a "newbie-friendly" distro. Effectively making newbies unwitting beta testers (who don't know how to test beta software nor how to report bugs, etc). That has been a long-standing gripe of mine with Ubuntu, but I grant that it's prob'ly just a matter of opinion.libssd wrote:
However, I would disagree with you about inclusion of "beta" (unless specifically labeled as such) software with Ubuntu releases. As soon as a new release is out, Canonical offers a new development release for testing. <snipped for brevity> Most people wait until the test period is over, start using the new release, and in the much wider world of real users with a huge variety of hardware, discover all sorts of problems that were not revealed by the testers. That's the nature of software.
I stopped growing at age 11. I have not grown an inch or gained a pound in nearly 7 years since. Some of the treatments are risky and controversial and my parents always refused them. Now that I will soon have a choice, I too will refuse "treatment." But I'm not complaining! My friends are all jealous. My dance class mates tell me that I'm "too adorable to get in trouble" when I deserve to. I get away with childlike mischief, and I get "child" discounts at movies and restaurants. It ain't so bad being "trapped in an 11-year-old's body," so to speak. And the disadvantages, most of the time, are actually more funny than bothersome. Like not being tall enough to ride the cool rides, or having the police pull me over because they got reports of "a small child driving a car," and not being taken seriously by adults when I think I should be. There are days when I'd rather be "smokin' hot sexy" instead of "cute and adorable," but I'm too busy with school (college too - I'm dual-enrolled), a part-time job, and a very busy music and dance rehearsal schedule to really care.libssd wrote: PS: You can't be as young as your avatar photo!
The problem with depending on testers is that none of them have the average person's equipment. Most are running heavy duty machines designed for Workstations. Not defending Ubuntu there, just stating facts.Robin wrote:libssd wrote: Most people wait until the test period is over, start using the new release, and in the much wider world of real users with a huge variety of hardware, discover all sorts of problems that were not revealed by the testers. That's the nature of software.
I stopped growing at age 11.
"Do you know which were the OS I was most happy with? MS-DOS 5.01, DR DOS 6.0."libssd wrote:MS-DOS 3.x is probably the most stable OS around because it hasn't been updated this century.
Yes, but what about something as basic and simple as auto mounting NTFS partitions?randomizer wrote:It does not... for you. Does Ubuntu work out of the box for everyone? Of course not.alpha1 wrote:Thanks but my post was actually directed towards ppl who claim that Mepis can work out of box like Ubuntu.
It does not.
Actually automounting any external drive including Fat 32 or other partition is not one of Linux's better traits. I have to Mount my 250GB USB every time I startup or reboot. It's for backup and extended data saving formated Fat 32.alpha1 wrote:Yes, but what about something as basic and simple as auto mounting NTFS partitions?randomizer wrote:It does not... for you. Does Ubuntu work out of the box for everyone? Of course not.alpha1 wrote:Thanks but my post was actually directed towards ppl who claim that Mepis can work out of box like Ubuntu.
It does not.
Thats sure is a n00b killer.
You never mentioned anything about n00bs before. You were talking about "working out of the box." If auto-mounting is intentionally left out, then it's still working out of the box as far as the developers intended it. But as I don't use Mepis I have no idea whether it's supposed to automount or not. I've not run into any GNOME- or KDE-based distro that didn't. Xfce doesn't automount by default.alpha1 wrote:Yes, but what about something as basic and simple as auto mounting NTFS partitions?
Thats sure is a n00b killer.
No problem, I get mistaken for a girl all the time. It doesn't really help that I'm tiny, have shoulder-length hair, and one of those names that goes either way (like Pat, Chris, etc). The doctors tell me that I'll just start growing again eventually on my own if I choose not to have the "hurry-it-up" treatments, but the longer it is before I start growing again, the smaller I'll be when it's over. Not really an issue for me.bobcollard wrote:Sorry about the Gender mistake, Robin is used in both. Are you expecting a growth spurt or just aging to catch up with you, (Curious)
It's really only "harmful" for people who just blindly install the latest version, accept all of the updates and don't take time to test things like sound, connectivity, printer function, etc along the way. In a distro that bills itself as "beginner friendly," they should be able to blindly install, accept all updates and go, as foolhardy as that sounds to the rest of us. A newbie will do what s/he always did in Windows or Mac, the only thing s/he knows to do.bobcollard wrote: Either way your thoughts about Ubuntu are right on the money and until people realize the harm it is doing it will continue.
It's not just Linux. I have a firewire 1tb WD external drive attached to my iMac, and sometimes it shows up automatically, sometimes it doesn't. I generally don't notice the problem until Time Machine complains it hasn't been able to do a backup for some time. Apple's disk utility can't find it; I have to force the issue by unplugging/replugging the drive.bobcollard wrote:Actually automounting any external drive including Fat 32 or other partition is not one of Linux's better traits. I have to Mount my 250GB USB every time I startup or reboot. It's for backup and extended data saving formated Fat 32.
I'm another one who was confused by the ambiguous first name.Robin wrote:Not Turner's syndrome. Only girls have that. I'm a boy. It's genetic, "constitutional growth delay," and for a lot of boys it's a big issue psychologically and socially. But I've always just rolled with it. I have even learned to enjoy it. The "genetic counseling" and some of the suggested treatments are fraught with mysterious names and possible side effects - left untreated, I'll just be little and "cute" and have a sort of extended childhood, free of all the social pressures that make my friends crazy....
Reminds me of my Windows days. I never trusted the updates from Microsoft and could never feel comfortable with setting up my computer to update automatically. I was always examining the available updates and picking and choosing which ones I thought I really needed. That habit carried over to Linux when I was a Linux newbie. I wonder if many other Linux newbies are the same way, but I'm sure that most people don't concern themselves with that sort of thing in either Windows or Linux.Robin wrote:It's really only "harmful" for people who just blindly install the latest version, accept all of the updates and don't take time to test things like sound, connectivity, printer function, etc along the way. In a distro that bills itself as "beginner friendly," they should be able to blindly install, accept all updates and go, as foolhardy as that sounds to the rest of us. A newbie will do what s/he always did in Windows or Mac, the only thing s/he knows to do.
Y'know, sometimes updates actually fix stuff instead of breaking it, lol. So I would tell a newbie, "If everything works in a fresh install, accept only security updates. If a couple of things don't work in a fresh install, take all the updates and see if that fixes things." If people take their time and make sure things work as they go (play a song to make sure the sound works, scan a picture, print a document, open the browser and connect, etc) it'd be easier. I can't really blame a newbie for doing the only thing they know to do, but when we introduce people to Linux (especially non-geeky people like me) we should encourage them to test everything as they go.
You say so much. Before ever trying Linux I was one of the cautious and did not apply Windows updates that did not relate to a program I did not use. Since switching to Mint in Dec '08 I have continued the cautious trend. I would apply all level 1 & 2 updates and only apply level three updates if I had something which was not working as smoothly as it should. Until recently I did wonder which were bug fixes, new features, or which were security updates. So now I check the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter for security updates, and apply those. I have never done an update all from Update Manager nor a sudo apt-get upgrade. So, I agree with Robin, and expresses it so well.Robin wrote:It's really only "harmful" for people who just blindly install the latest version, accept all of the updates and don't take time to test things like sound, connectivity, printer function, etc along the way. In a distro that bills itself as "beginner friendly," they should be able to blindly install, accept all updates and go, as foolhardy as that sounds to the rest of us. A newbie will do what s/he always did in Windows or Mac, the only thing s/he knows to do.
Y'know, sometimes updates actually fix stuff instead of breaking it, lol. So I would tell a newbie, "If everything works in a fresh install, accept only security updates. If a couple of things don't work in a fresh install, take all the updates and see if that fixes things." If people take their time and make sure things work as they go...
(if you don't consider the backups and multi-boot 
)MALsPa wrote:Reminds me of my Windows days. I never trusted the updates from Microsoft and could never feel comfortable with setting up my computer to update...
This time around, with Mint Isadora and Ubuntu Lucid, I've decided to approach things as I would with Debian Stable -- just bring in all the updates, see what happens
I read 4 or 5 of the books in that series. In fact I have read a number of his books, alternate history and otherwise. Also some he published as H.N. Turteltaub and Eric G. IversonAuthor Harry Turtledove has written a SF/alternate history series in which earth is invaded by 4-foot tall bipedal lizards
I think you're checking the wrong place...Ubuntu places its security advisories here (and there are a lot of them too): http://www.ubuntu.com/usndawgdoc wrote:So now I check the Ubuntu Weekly Newsletter for security updates, and apply those.
