newbish question, but what's the point?

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newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby jehicks87 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:33 pm

Hey all, very new to Linux... been trying to install for a while with no luck. On the plus side though, that gives me some more time to think about which version(s) I want to put on my netbook. Kind of like window shopping, but even better ;)

I am leaning towards dual booting Mint XFCE and Fluxbox, but someone said something about XFCE running much faster on Debian. Naturally, I came here... I gotta say that I'm very impressed with the community! But, and forgive my ignorance, I just don't understand why the developers branched into Debian? Is there some real quantifiable gain in this move? Or, is it just another flavor?

It seems to be where all the "hip" folks in the know hang out and express there preferences for this version... but as I said before I just don't get it. What's the difference? Isn't Mint based off Ubuntu which is based off Debian? If so, then why go "backwards" to Debian? Can you run XFCE on LMDE? Is there any real point to doing so, as my understanding is XFCE is an alternate and slimmer DE than Gnome? If you were just to run the XFCE enviro on top of Gnome, wouldn't that be taking away from the main reason for XFCE in the first place?

Yeah, I know, just another confused newb... but I never said I was anything other than that to begin with :D

Thanks for the help, guys. I'm trying to make the right choice, and the LinuxMint community really does its best to help people like me, so I'm a big fan.

Jake
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby tdockery97 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:42 pm

The main point of Linux Mint Debian is rolling release. Not having to reinstall every 6 months to have the newest software and/or updated system. Ubuntu is a "patched" version of Debian with the goal of making it more "user-friendly". Ubuntu (and regular Mint) are not compatible with Debian coding. Some apps will work on both, some have separate Ubuntu and Debian versions. In day-to-day normal use, I don't think one is better than the other. You can do all the same things on both. If you like the excitement of installing and setting up the new Mint version every six months, then you should go that way. If you want an edition that is always up to date without having to reinstall, then LMDE is for you.
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby willie42 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:49 pm

Let me add just one little point to tdockery97's post that Mint does come out with a version with LTS (Long Term Support) which at the moment is Linux Mint 9 Isadora. So in this case you don't have to upgrade every 6 months. I personally like all the tweeks that come out with the newer versions. So I choose to get excited with every new release. :D
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby jehicks87 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:10 pm

Thanks for taking the time to answer. I see what you're saying, and it sounds like Debian is more like (dare I say it?) windows in that regard... i.e. you have one release and that's it for a while, with almost daily or weekly "updates." Am I in the ballpark?

So, is there a plan for an XFCE LMDE? Or would one just settle for Gnome?
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby willie42 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:22 pm

I use the gnome maid edition. I would say that I notice updates about 3 to 4 times a week maybe sometimes more sometimes less...really hard to say
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby jehicks87 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:37 pm

Hey willie, thanks for the input but I'm looking for more Linux Mint Debian Edition stuff. I do appreciate your help though.
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby DJ A. J. Slye on Mon Dec 13, 2010 4:52 pm

[quote="It sounds like Debian is more like (dare I say it?) windows in that regard... i.e. you have one release and that's it for a while, with almost daily or weekly "updates." Am I in the ballpark?[/quote]

Debian Stable is kinda like Windows with one release for a while (approximately every 2 years) and only security updates are applied with the exception of only certain software, most suited for servers where you wouldn't want a programs to be updated that might break backward compatibility or stability with your system.

Debian Testing, Unstable and Experimental are continually updated, with varying degrees of stability and version revisions of the software contained in each, it's more like having a program installed on Windows that searches out new stable versions of every piece of software installed on your machine (including the OS) and updating them continually..

LMDE (is based based on Debian Testing)
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby jehicks87 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:36 pm

Cool, that sounds great actually! Would VLC player play DVDs and ripped videos or would I have to manually search out and d/l those codecs myself? I've read that Debian is "commited to free" stuff, which would seem to make it a bit harder to just use, you know? Is that kind of right?

And then, if I decided to go with LMDE, is there somewhere where I can download a LMDE with the xfce de or is gnome the only option so far?
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby Edgpaez on Mon Dec 13, 2010 5:45 pm

Gnome is the only option by now, KDE version is expected to be released this december, anyway you can install the gnome LMDE and install xfce or whatever you like or need. I've been running LMDE for about a month and I love it! You wouldn't find much trouble to find the apps you want, plus LMDE is a good approach to make Debian much more user friendly ...
Also, VLC will play any video you throw at it, and Handbrake will rip everything as well :)

Have fun !
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby jehicks87 on Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:22 pm

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole point of xfce is to be as light as possible, right? If that's the case what good would it do to install in overtop of Gnome? Wouldn't you just be adding heft to something that is already heftier than xfce to begin with?
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby Rifester on Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:36 pm

You may want to take a look at Crunchbang (if you want XFCE & Debian) or just install Debian w/XFCE. Xubuntu is really nice as well, I ran it for awhile on my netbook and really enjoyed it.
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby Epipsychidion on Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:36 pm

jehicks87 wrote:... I've read that Debian is "commited to free" stuff, which would seem to make it a bit harder to just use, you know? Is that kind of right?


You are right in that Debian is commited to free software, but they still maintain a repository for non-free programs/codecs. And that is just on the Debian side - don't forget that this is Linux Mint Debian. The upshot of this is that not only do we get Debian backing, but also that of Clem and the team at Mint. In terms of being harder to use, I've not had any issues with my standard installation of LMDE, and only minor ones with my Sid based installation (on second laptop).
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby pythagorean on Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:00 pm

Basically I think just about everyone who uses Linux can see that the clock is ticking for Ubuntu. Mint is easeir to use anyway and Ubuntu's whole marketing plan revolves around "easy"... its a bad idea to keep your wagon hitched to a dying horse. In time Mint Debian will have all the virtues of being an equal of Ubuntu without any dependencies and ALSO its a rolling distro. Everyone is getting more and more interested in rolling distros right now because this 6 month cycle for putting out new versions is getting tedious to say the least.
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby Midnighter on Mon Dec 13, 2010 11:36 pm

jehicks87 wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but the whole point of xfce is to be as light as possible, right? If that's the case what good would it do to install in overtop of Gnome? Wouldn't you just be adding heft to something that is already heftier than xfce to begin with?



Gnome and XFCE are 2 entirely seperate desktop environments, you run one of the other. If you install XFCE onto your gnome install, you can have the choice to use either, simply log out after adding xfce, and at the login screen, choose which one you want to use/login to. Both can be installed, but only use one at a time. :)

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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby runbei on Tue Dec 14, 2010 1:44 am

My 2 cents, as a Mint user for about 3 years, 2 years almost full-time.

I looked forward to LMDE because it promised to offer the stability of Debian. This is important, because the Ubuntu developers are notorious for adding bugs with every new release. I had terrible, unsolvable problems running VirtualBox after one Mint update, apparently due to trickle-down bugs from Ubuntu to Mint. (Although, in honesty, other users reported no problems with VirtualBox in the new edition.)

I installed LMDE with great hopes, only to have them dashed when <something> (who knows what?) trashed my Master Boot Record. This was a deal killer for me, as I am forced to use MS Word in my daily work. Don't get me started about Open Orifice.

It's my opinion, with respect, that the user who blithely dashed off the advice to this newbie to install Debian and run xfce in it was giving really, really bad advice. Debian is not easy to set up, particularly not by a new Linux user. Really, it's irresponsible to recommend it to someone who's new.

I would love to use LMDE, for all the usual reasons - stability, rolling releases, etc. But the catastrophic problem I had has me gun-shy. As this is the LMDE forum - has anyone had a similar issue? Sorry - it's been a while, and I'm running Mint 10 (I hope temporarily), so I can't give details.
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby ShexNivis on Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:53 am

I imagine debian as water. Ubuntu as wine and mint as grape juice.
The way I see it is that ubuntu keeps adding 'alcohol' while I just want grape juice.
While main edition tries to take off the alcohol from the wine to deliver to me a nice grape juice, LMDE gets the watter, the grapes and makes me the juice.
Now tell me, would you prefer a grape juice made out of water and grapes or a wine gone trough a process of de-alcoholify(<wut?)?
Also its 5am and I'm starting to have some hallucination so good night : )
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby jehicks87 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:01 am

ShexNivis wrote:I imagine debian as water. Ubuntu as wine and mint as grape juice.
The way I see it is that ubuntu keeps adding 'alcohol' while I just want grape juice.
While main edition tries to take off the alcohol from the wine to deliver to me a nice grape juice, LMDE gets the watter, the grapes and makes me the juice.
Now tell me, would you prefer a grape juice made out of water and grapes or a wine gone trough a process of de-alcoholify(<wut?)?
Also its 5am and I'm starting to have some hallucination so good night : )


ummm... what? :lol:

I downloaded LMDE last night... I've had alot of trouble installing LM 9 LXCE, LM 10, LM 9 KDE... so, I figured I'd give this a try. Thanks to the poster who pointed out the noob unfriendliness, but I'm going to take a shot at it.

Thanks for all the help, and if I have a problem installing this one... God help me cause I'm going to be needing a new laptop (wall beats netbook everytime lol)
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby sgosnell on Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:48 am

LMDE uses the Mint installer, so be forewarned. I didn't find it that difficult, though. I've never installed Mint, but I found installing LMDE was very straightforward, as was every other Linux distro I've tried.
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby jehicks87 on Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:00 am

sgosnell wrote:LMDE uses the Mint installer, so be forewarned. I didn't find it that difficult, though. I've never installed Mint, but I found installing LMDE was very straightforward, as was every other Linux distro I've tried.


Installed without a hitch. It wasn't that the other versions were "difficult to install" they just would not do so on my computer. I kept getting a file is corrupted/missing/broken error when trying to install. Not so with LMDE.

However, and I should have researched this before, the only internet connection I have available here is PPPoE... yeah. LMDE doesn't support it out of the box. So, because it doesn't automatically support it, and because I have to other way to access the internet, I can't use it to surf the web (the main reason I wanted Mint), download updates, or really anything I had wanted to do. Hell, I can't even fix the damned thing because you have to get on the internet to fix the broken internet connection... wth???

I'm actually very upset by this. Why would they have it up for downloading if they knew there is something so blatantly wrong with it? :evil:
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Re: newbish question, but what's the point?

Postby runbei on Tue Dec 14, 2010 11:34 am

runbei wrote:My 2 cents, as a Mint user for about 3 years, 2 years almost full-time.

I installed LMDE with great hopes, only to have them dashed when <something> (who knows what?) trashed my Master Boot Record. This was a deal killer for me...


I posted about this problem separately and got some very informative responses with solid info for preparing in advance in case a Windows program (in a dual-boot situation) trashes GRUB. (This appears to be the source of the problem.)

The thread is here: http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=61893&p=355360#p355360
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