LMDE Updates Message "Fix Broken Packages"

[rtrev]

I keep two installs of LMDE, so if I blow one up I have the other one to fall back on.

I'm a little puzzled. In one, I pulled the trigger and did the full dist-upgrade, and lost my VLC.

But in the other install, MintUpdate is offering to update VLC to 1.1.3-1squeeze2 in addition to installing that libva1 that breaks VLC. It isn't saying anything about removing VLC, just lists it as one of a bunch of level 3 updates.

Is MintUpdate simply wrong, or what's happening here?

Thanks,
Bob

[craig10x]

And since i also did the distribution upgrade in the terminal (as previously mentioned) and now my updater says i am up to date with no more fix message, my vlc player was also removed...

i wonder what would happen if i re-installed it....then it would send the same updates to me again (with the broken message)? Would it be "safer" to wait for a new version of VLC to become available in Testing? When it does, would i see it in the Package Manager after doing a "refresh"?

[rtrev]

I tried reinstalling it from Synaptic. It told me it needed to install a few other things like the vlcnox and that it wasn't going to. It refused.

[zerozero]

rtrev and craig10x,
i didn't try to install back vlc (actually i hold the upgrade just in case) but for what i see is not going to be possible to install it back so easily. you are going though a dependency loop: vlc depends on vlc-nox, which depends on libva1 (but the new libva1 version breaks the vlc-nox available in synaptic).

this i haven't tested but may work try to downgrade libva1 to the previous version, and lock the version for now, and then install vlc.
may work, but anyway as i said before is temporary because more updates (ffmpeg) are coming to mess with the multimedia

[rtrev]

Thanks zerozero!

I guess it's time to put our trays in their upright position?

[kmb42vt]

One thing to remember about updating LMDE is to not use MintUpdate as it hasn't been modified for LMDE yet. MintUpdate is simply ported over from LM 10 Main/KDE and has yet to be integrated into LMDE so that it works properly. This has been part of the release notes for some time now. Best way to update LMDE is to do it via the terminal with "sudo apt-get update" then "sudo apt-get dist-upgrade". Also, from my experience, if prompted during the upgrade, do not replace any maintainer "config" files with new ones--keep the originals as many of the config files were tailored for Mint. I installed LMDE back in December and the only time I had problems with a "dist-upgrade" was when I replaced config files (ended up with an LMDE that looked half Mint, half Debian ).

And yup, VLC was removed and cannot be re-installed without jumping through hoops--welcome to Debian Testing! Things are bound to break now and then but as the man said: "It ain't no how permanent". The secret here is patience until a (near) future update brings it back. Basing LMDE on Testing means some apps, modules, libraries, etc will occasionally be backed out while a bug/bug fix is troubleshot/tested and, once the problem is corrected, put back in. I can't imagine that modifying MintUpdate for LMDE is going to be an easy task because this but once it is...?

[viking777]

So that command is an alternate way to install your mint updates instead of using the gui?
I could use that any time i have updates?

Sure, apt-get or aptitude will both do the job but just in slightly different ways.

Also, now that VLC has been removed, i would like to have it again...but would it be best to wait now until Debian Testing sends down the new version and then install that (rather then re-installing the old version) ? Or should i just re-install VLC right now (the current version)?

Now you have accepted the updates that break vlc you will have to do without it until it is updated. It is wiser to pin libva1 and keep vlc in my opinion, but it is your choice of course.

EDIT. I don't quite know why, but I seem to have missed a whole page of posts out here, and I am replying to the last post on page 1 . Oh well, never mind, I will leave the answer here anyway.

Having caught up with the rest of the thread I noticed this from kmb42vt:

if prompted during the upgrade, do not replace any maintainer "config" files with new ones--keep the originals

I disagree so strongly with that statement that I couldn't let it pass unmentioned. In my opinion the exact opposite is true. If you really want to baulk you system using old config files with new programs is a great way to go .

[kmb42vt]

Having caught up with the rest of the thread I noticed this from kmb42vt:

if prompted during the upgrade, do not replace any maintainer "config" files with new ones--keep the originals

I disagree so strongly with that statement that I couldn't let it pass unmentioned. In my opinion the exact opposite is true. If you really want to baulk you system using old config files with new programs is a great way to go .

Just to clear up my point, nearly all the config file updates that occur during an LMDE upgrade are done automatically and without prompting the user. There are two however where the user has to make a choice whether keep the originals or replace them with new config files. As far as I can tell both of these are non-app/non-program related, one of them being the config file for the "greeter" and the other, if I remember correctly, has to do with the "Mintified" GUI--can't remember exactly what it's called off the top of my head. I've installed LMDE 3 times now in one of my testing partitions and accepting new versions of those two config and ended up with a Debian login splash screen and a Debian background and icons (in some areas) when logged in.

Of course, since this is just a test environment I could always re-install, check exactly how exactly how many times I'm prompted to replace config files again just to make sure things haven't changed any since the last time. After all, LMDE is based on Testing you know. Either way, LMDE is running beautifully as it is now.

[craig10x]

letting it change the configuration files takes out mint based stuff? Hmmm...wonder why that hasn't happened on mine because i have accepted every update that was thrown at me...is it because i used the mint updater? would it be different if i updated using the terminal with that command?

Ok...so as far as my situation, i guess i will just wait for the newer VLC version to come down from testing...Any idea of how long that might be?
I'll use totem while i am waiting...though i do like VLC slightly better of course...libva1 (that it installed) should work with the newer version of VLC?

Seems strange they would send that down if the new VLC wasn't also ready to send down yet (and then by doing so, it would go and break the old VLC... )

One last question...since my VLC was uninstalled, then i would assume that means the new VLC won't show up in the Mint Updates?
If it would not, would i see it in the Package Manager by hitting "refresh packages" when it is sent down to us? I wasn't sure how that works, so hope someone can clarify on this...

[zerozero]

first of all, as said before, if i was you, i wouldn't be using MintUpdate, isn't not ported to LMDE and doesn't upgrade the system properly. Use the terminal or synaptic.
If you use synaptic, you will see one day, lets hope soon , vlc in the new pkgs in repository filter

[craig10x]

Did some research...apparently the libva1 is for the newer version of VLC media player which is 1.7 and is currently in unstable...it is for that version..not the currently installed version, so no wonder why it breaks the old version...Which make you wonder why the heck they sent it down ahead of the new version...and caused this problem in the first place

I would assume that when the new version of VLC arrives it would install properly since this was designed to work with it...

So...to sum up here...1) when it becomes available in Testing i should see it when i hit "refresh packages" in Package Manager?
2) you can do your updates using Package Manager (instead of Mint Update) ? How would you do that?

Thanks...

[kmb42vt]

letting it change the configuration files takes out mint based stuff? Hmmm...wonder why that hasn't happened on mine because i have accepted every update that was thrown at me...is it because i used the mint updater? would it be different if i updated using the terminal with that command?

Ok...so as far as my situation, i guess i will just wait for the newer VLC version to come down from testing...Any idea of how long that might be?
I'll use totem while i am waiting...though i do like VLC slightly better of course...libva1 (that it installed) should work with the newer version of VLC?

Seems strange they would send that down if the new VLC wasn't also ready to send down yet (and then by doing so, it would go and break the old VLC... )

One last question...since my VLC was uninstalled, then i would assume that means the new VLC won't show up in the Mint Updates?
If it would not, would i see it in the Package Manager by hitting "refresh packages" when it is sent down to us? I wasn't sure how that works, so hope someone can clarify on this...

I would have to guess that if using MintUpdate (set to accept level 1,2 and 3 updates) to update your LMDE removed VLC then it should show any new VLC updates when they're made available. But yeah, you can always check in Synaptic from time to time (Upgradable filter) to see what new updates are available and then compare those to what's shown in MintUpadate (close Synaptic first though). And you probably wouldn't see any of the config file replacement prompts when initially updating using MintUpdate set to levels 1,2 and 3 as I don't believe it lets those updates through. On that note, using MintUpdate as it's currently configured certainly won't hurt anything and probably keep most breakage from occurring. I'll stress the word, "most" though.

And really, the problem problem with VLC would be very strange if LMDE wasn't based on Debian Testing but on Debian Stable. But since it is based on Testing then there's bound to be minor breakage now and then. I'm sure when Clem and Co. get MintUpdate properly tweaked for LMDE updating will be much easier and "safer". Just my opinion of course.

[zerozero]

2) you can do your updates using Package Manager (instead of Mint Update) ? How would you do that?

Package Manager aka synaptic is a powerful and very nice tool to use
Yes you can upgrade your system with it, they are both front-ends to apt but MintUpdate's division in levels may be interesting to the ubuntu based versions of Mint but doesn't fit in the rolling purpose of LMDE

[GeneC]

Interesting (though confusing for a newbie) thread.

When I updated this morning I saw the same problems you all had stated above. (Fix Broken packages).

I choose to update and let the update uninstall VLC and install "libva1". I figured update knew better than me, and that it ( the new VLC) would come along later. I assumed that the new "libva1" was used in more than just VLC, perhaps other multimedia software (Mplayer?, Totem?). No worries.

BUT, this thread just added confusion on whether to accept NEW "config" files or not. I have two installations of LMDE set up the same. One daily user, and one that I use as a "test" (I dowload ALL 1-5 updates there first to "test" to see if anything breaks.). I have downloaded ALL updates since install, and nothing has broken. I use the Liquorix kernal, there have been around 5-6 updates to it since I installed, but no breakage there either, all runs smooth.

I wish someone would really clarify accepting config updates!

Also, I use Mint Update Manager. Levels 1-5. I read above that this is not the preferred method, as it may miss something.? I must say that I don't think it does. I recently have also been checking synaptic "Mark all Upgrades" after using mint update, and there is nothing new there. I think that Mint Update does the trick, but I really would like to see some clarification on this as well.

I must say that LMDE is easier to use and maintain than I expected (only started on Linux about 6 months ago).
But, I find a lot of contradictory (but always helpful ) info on the forum. Experienced users seem to not like to use GUI's at all. And most of us new folks are still a bit intimidated by the CLI.

As mentioned, Mint Update works just fine for me. I think just as well as using the CLI commands, or synaptic. I sure would like to see some definitive clarification on this and accepting config updates.

Thanks.

[zerozero]

hehe GeneC and you could ask a few more and the answers would be probably more confusing
But trying to clarify:
- you have MintUpdate set to level 1-5, so it's the same as synaptic or apt-get update && apt-get-get dist-upgrade. The issue is only with the users that leave MintUpdate as default (level 1-3); it's not the best way to do the job because this way you are not going to update core lib, kernel and Xand this can be safe in more static releases (read ubuntu based) but doesn't fit LMDE.

- About conf files, and this is just my opinion, it all depends: i'm not going to let Debian overwrite my sudoers file everytime sudo is updated (well i could, but it's a pain to go back and redo the conf again) in this situation i choose keep, the rest as i said depends (i don't mind to replace gdm -the new artwork is refreshing )

[craig10x]

I have my mint update set to take up to level 5 so as you said, that would match package manager and terminal for updates....
Only thing now is, although in the meanwhile, i can use the Gnome M Player for my videos until the new VLC becomes available,
when i play a video on it...it still works fine but i get a little window initially popping up that says this:

Failed to open VDPAU backend libvdpau_nvidia.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory

I never got that before when Gnome MPlayer would open to play a video, so it looks like the upgrade had an effect on this as well...just great

And by the way, i notice if you should try to uninstall that libva1, then the package manager will tell you it is going to uninstall a slew of stuff...all kinds of codecs, even my Amarok!....oh boy....This make me almost want to go back to the ubuntu based Mint 10....Seems like this works like a "House of Cards" One card falls and then the rest starts falling down...

I thought i would like the rolling distro much better..now i am starting to wonder...

[GeneC]

Thanks "ZZ"

That does clarify (some ). No really, it does.

As I never did any real editing of any config files that I can think of. I am probably OK to choose the new ones. (What do I know.. ). Still learning, and having fun. Perhaps I will just make a backup of the old config files before updating. I guess that is a good idea.

I agree that all the warnings on the level 4-5 updates in Mint update are probably not correct. As mentioned it is ported over from other Mint distros, and not really meant for LMDE I guess. Wouldn't it be real easy for the developers to address that? I mean after updated 30-40 updates that the updater says are "unsafe" (level 4) and "dangerous" (level 5) and have ZERO problems. I guess they are not really unsafe, that they are rather, really IMPORTANT.

Well, I will keep reading the forums, as I do daily. Its really a fun ride.

[rtrev]

The nice thing about using Synaptic to update is that it will tell you immediately what is going to be installed, removed, or left unchanged.

If you refresh, then under status look at the updates, you can check them one by one, and when one pops up saying it's going to remove something you want to keep then you probably want to think about it and/or post here.

I think it might help if Mint Update were removed until such time as it works correctly with LMDE. It would eliminate a lot of confusion, no?

[zerozero]

GeneC LMDE can indeed be a fun ride as the forum is aswell

rtrev removing for now MintUpdate from LMDE seems to me also a good idea, at least until the issues are addressed. I understand the ease of use idea behind such a tool but leaving it to the defaults (lv 1-3) doesn't provide in the long run a good experience specially to new users

[TBABill]

@craig10x: it sure makes for an interesting ride, but desiring testing over stable inherently present that as normal. We got spoiled during the freeze, but now that real package movement is happening we'll see things break and post to make sure we're not alone with our breakages. I doubt it will take long to get sorted, but I am enjoying the ride. And if we were on the Ubuntu base we could be having this same conversation over a different update Basing on sid like normal Ubuntu/Mint releases is bound to bring in some oops moments sometimes even after testing them for a period. I'm still rolling the dice that these events will still be fewer and farther between than 10.10 / 10.