I disagree with your premise.
Just because I don't want to learn how to rebuild an engine doesn't mean that I don't want a better car, does it?
An OS should make things simple, almost intuitive. If you want to dig in and learn more, you should be able to, but no one should have to do so just to use a computer.
Why use linux?
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linuxviolin
- Level 8
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- Location: France
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linuxviolin
- Level 8
- Posts: 2081
- Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:55 pm
- Location: France
I put quotation marks ("") at difficulty...alexander wrote:As for there need for a certain level of difficulty I couldn't agree less.
But I believe that the PCs will be always a little... complex for some. It is not the kind of thing which one makes by closing the eyes, there are things to know and to learn, some is the OS.
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)
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bigbearomaha
- Level 3
- Posts: 178
- Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 11:34 am
- Location: Omaha, NE
The real question for me is, why do people use computers?
To get thing done. to accomplish tasks and perform services that will likely assist getting a certain job done.
What is an OS for? for people to interact with the computer in able to perform said tasks and services.
I don't think anyone would argue, one of the primary reasons windows is success is because it "tries" ( doesn't always succeed, but it tries ) to make those tasks and services as simple as possible.
One could even go so far as to say, an OS's primary role is not just to provide interaction with the computer, but to facilitate that interaction.
One of Windows greater failures is that it doesn't allow those people who need or want access to the "guts" of the machine or, to use the infamous auto reference, it locks the hood. " Sorry, you can't do that tune up yourself, got to have permission from the factory to do that. sucks to be you."
Why, because many people have the interest to work on their own car or computer. to make it go faster, or pull more weight, or carry a heavier load, etc.
Things that the people can learn to do that will save them money and make their car/computer customized to their specific needs.
Now, do all people want to be a mechanic/tech just to have their car/computer "customized/optimized?Of course not. BUT , we want to know it is possible, because maybe, I have a neighbor who is mechanically inclined/computer oriented who might "trade me" He'll work on my car/computer and I'll frame up his new deck ( cuz I'm a framer/carpenter maybe).
At least I know, even though I am not going to work on that computer myself, it can be done easier and cheaper than going back to the factory.
SO. what do I want Linux, a computer OS to do? I want it to facilitate and help me, as easily and directly as possible, get my tasks/work done on it.
I am willing to learn how to work with the computer, I just shouldn't have to be a tech to learn how to use a word processor.
( note. I am one of those computer oriented people who likes to work on computers, but I know that there are many many more people who are exactly as I describe, my wife and kids among them. My clients are people who want to use a computer, not be the tech for it just to type letters or print images.)
That's what I think people Use Linux, to have a better way to use a computer.
just my two cent,
Big Bear
To get thing done. to accomplish tasks and perform services that will likely assist getting a certain job done.
What is an OS for? for people to interact with the computer in able to perform said tasks and services.
I don't think anyone would argue, one of the primary reasons windows is success is because it "tries" ( doesn't always succeed, but it tries ) to make those tasks and services as simple as possible.
One could even go so far as to say, an OS's primary role is not just to provide interaction with the computer, but to facilitate that interaction.
One of Windows greater failures is that it doesn't allow those people who need or want access to the "guts" of the machine or, to use the infamous auto reference, it locks the hood. " Sorry, you can't do that tune up yourself, got to have permission from the factory to do that. sucks to be you."
Why, because many people have the interest to work on their own car or computer. to make it go faster, or pull more weight, or carry a heavier load, etc.
Things that the people can learn to do that will save them money and make their car/computer customized to their specific needs.
Now, do all people want to be a mechanic/tech just to have their car/computer "customized/optimized?Of course not. BUT , we want to know it is possible, because maybe, I have a neighbor who is mechanically inclined/computer oriented who might "trade me" He'll work on my car/computer and I'll frame up his new deck ( cuz I'm a framer/carpenter maybe).
At least I know, even though I am not going to work on that computer myself, it can be done easier and cheaper than going back to the factory.
SO. what do I want Linux, a computer OS to do? I want it to facilitate and help me, as easily and directly as possible, get my tasks/work done on it.
I am willing to learn how to work with the computer, I just shouldn't have to be a tech to learn how to use a word processor.
( note. I am one of those computer oriented people who likes to work on computers, but I know that there are many many more people who are exactly as I describe, my wife and kids among them. My clients are people who want to use a computer, not be the tech for it just to type letters or print images.)
That's what I think people Use Linux, to have a better way to use a computer.
just my two cent,
Big Bear
Bee the best you can bee.
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linuxviolin
- Level 8
- Posts: 2081
- Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:55 pm
- Location: France
A better way does not want to say than it is enough pushing the power button, hit some keys or clicking some share for that all functions. That is not so "easy". (and maybe fortunately if one wants to keep a certain quality) It's not a "playmobil"...bigbearomaha wrote:That's what I think people Use Linux, to have a better way to use a computer.
I don't say that it's only for "specialists", not at all, just that there are things to learn and know like everywhere.
you spoke about car, a code must not be learned and a driving licence must not be passed? Still and always to learn using such or such thing… even using a PC. (up to a certain point of course)
K.I.S.S. ===> "Keep It Simple, Stupid"
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication." (Leonardo da Vinci)
"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler." (Albert Einstein)
A. Free including most software. As an added bonus, Synaptic beats having to search for programs in Windows
B. Idiot friendly - If I mess up, I still have the live cd.
C. Install friendly - I don't know how to install Win Xp and got lazy and decided to install Mint instead. Because there's no viruses, there's no extra step to check everything first before having a network connection which means learning is as fast or as slow as I want it to be. An added bonus is that Firefox is removeable though unfortunately until people start supporting Opera more, there's no better main browser alternative.
D. Elegant
Most quality distributions have great artwork prepackaged. Themes are easy to change and many already come prepackaged. A search bar on the start menu. Process Explorer available by default. Tomboy Notes immediately made present (though I'm glad I caught the days of Cassandra when it still had a welcome message after installation) In addition, the choice part allows separation of lightweight vs. memory consuming unlike Xp which even under Classic can still feel slow and it still does not fully replicate 98SE which is the OS I first used and felt most comfortably combined speed + functionality due to nostalgia.
E. Potential
Everytime I want to progress as a power user, I can because the OS is already very powerful on it's own and I can't say the same for Windows. Everytime I have a mild desire to touch the commandline, it gives no incentive to do so. It's like the difference between Firefox and Opera. The former forces me to either look too deeply and learn basic programming or scripting or forces me to settle with it's extension system. The latter from time to time gives me an incentive to progress to that advanced stage on my own because it gives me the opportunity to tweak some files under ctrl F12 advanced and sometimes there are things that can only be looked at in the profile and then because it's features comes out of the box, it's all within a certain area and organized in a much more consistent way. The result is that I have a customized context menu on Opera and a cluttered one on Firefox and I see the same thing happening with Linux from my brief time with Mint. The more it gets me familiar with the terminal for doing some commands that require sudo, the more I detach myself from the clutches of my GUI upbringing and the more I learn about a feature, the more it improves my productivity at a gradual pace that doesn't suddenly require a slap in the face like a virus breaking down my entire OS for me to start paying attention.
F. Options
As more and more simplified manners of installation are made to the beginner, the more each distribution gets a mini-prepackaged fork under it that's personalized for a certain task. This means as the more popular the Desktop Linux OS gets, the more options there are for ignorant users like me. Distro developers help shorten that line of difficulty too and technology is progressing fast.
Wubi, pen drives, X boxes. Sure they require learning for now too but I'm still keeping my hopes up that eventually Linux will close the gap and really become the hardware friendly OS for all types of things not just for hobbyists.
B. Idiot friendly - If I mess up, I still have the live cd.
C. Install friendly - I don't know how to install Win Xp and got lazy and decided to install Mint instead. Because there's no viruses, there's no extra step to check everything first before having a network connection which means learning is as fast or as slow as I want it to be. An added bonus is that Firefox is removeable though unfortunately until people start supporting Opera more, there's no better main browser alternative.
D. Elegant
Most quality distributions have great artwork prepackaged. Themes are easy to change and many already come prepackaged. A search bar on the start menu. Process Explorer available by default. Tomboy Notes immediately made present (though I'm glad I caught the days of Cassandra when it still had a welcome message after installation) In addition, the choice part allows separation of lightweight vs. memory consuming unlike Xp which even under Classic can still feel slow and it still does not fully replicate 98SE which is the OS I first used and felt most comfortably combined speed + functionality due to nostalgia.
E. Potential
Everytime I want to progress as a power user, I can because the OS is already very powerful on it's own and I can't say the same for Windows. Everytime I have a mild desire to touch the commandline, it gives no incentive to do so. It's like the difference between Firefox and Opera. The former forces me to either look too deeply and learn basic programming or scripting or forces me to settle with it's extension system. The latter from time to time gives me an incentive to progress to that advanced stage on my own because it gives me the opportunity to tweak some files under ctrl F12 advanced and sometimes there are things that can only be looked at in the profile and then because it's features comes out of the box, it's all within a certain area and organized in a much more consistent way. The result is that I have a customized context menu on Opera and a cluttered one on Firefox and I see the same thing happening with Linux from my brief time with Mint. The more it gets me familiar with the terminal for doing some commands that require sudo, the more I detach myself from the clutches of my GUI upbringing and the more I learn about a feature, the more it improves my productivity at a gradual pace that doesn't suddenly require a slap in the face like a virus breaking down my entire OS for me to start paying attention.
F. Options
As more and more simplified manners of installation are made to the beginner, the more each distribution gets a mini-prepackaged fork under it that's personalized for a certain task. This means as the more popular the Desktop Linux OS gets, the more options there are for ignorant users like me. Distro developers help shorten that line of difficulty too and technology is progressing fast.
Wubi, pen drives, X boxes. Sure they require learning for now too but I'm still keeping my hopes up that eventually Linux will close the gap and really become the hardware friendly OS for all types of things not just for hobbyists.
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belovedmonster
- Level 5
- Posts: 639
- Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 12:34 pm
Re: Why use linux?
This thread makes me think of this strange phenomena I've noticed relating to Mac OSX. Bear with me it will relate to Linux eventually
When ever you go to somewhere like Digg and see people posting anti-Mac comments they very often include comments like "Macs are only for people who are too stupid to use a regular computer".
I've always found this a bizarre opinion to have, because surely to go out of your way to be a Mac owner shows you are have above average knowledge of computers. I mean, the people who can barely work their email and are complete computer noobs have never even heard of a Mac. To purposefully go out and buy a niche computer with a niche operating system and to use that on a daily basis despite the problems that brings suggests that you have a certain level of confidence in using technology does it not?
How I would relate this back to Linux is to say that similar to the MacOSX thing but probably even more so; the people who try Linux are technologically minded people who know far more than the average person on the street about computers.
So my point would be, if someone is complaining that Linux is too hard or does stuff in a dumb way then Linux just must have a problem. These aren't lazy people or stupid people who dont know any better, they are techies . No one is lazy if they have gone out of their way to download and use Linux! No, these are people who have expectations that arent being met by Linux.
OK, I'm sure you get the odd daft person who moans over something because its not Windows, but in general you gotta realise that these complaints are valid.
When ever you go to somewhere like Digg and see people posting anti-Mac comments they very often include comments like "Macs are only for people who are too stupid to use a regular computer".
I've always found this a bizarre opinion to have, because surely to go out of your way to be a Mac owner shows you are have above average knowledge of computers. I mean, the people who can barely work their email and are complete computer noobs have never even heard of a Mac. To purposefully go out and buy a niche computer with a niche operating system and to use that on a daily basis despite the problems that brings suggests that you have a certain level of confidence in using technology does it not?
How I would relate this back to Linux is to say that similar to the MacOSX thing but probably even more so; the people who try Linux are technologically minded people who know far more than the average person on the street about computers.
So my point would be, if someone is complaining that Linux is too hard or does stuff in a dumb way then Linux just must have a problem. These aren't lazy people or stupid people who dont know any better, they are techies . No one is lazy if they have gone out of their way to download and use Linux! No, these are people who have expectations that arent being met by Linux.
OK, I'm sure you get the odd daft person who moans over something because its not Windows, but in general you gotta realise that these complaints are valid.