Mint users on Ubuntu forums

[mads]

Hi!

I have just been here for 6 months, but I have seen many Ubuntu users asking questions in this forum.
And I guess most of you already know the fact that some Ubuntu users even ask their questions in our
forums first. Because they know that here they receive help and are treated with respect.

However, the other way around is not the same. This is what a Mint user receive when asking a question in Ubuntu forums (see for yourself).

Hi .....

There's a Linux Mint forum to get help with your distro.
You'll find it here: http://forums.linuxmint.com/

regards
A.I. Dude
Ubuntu Forum Staff

To be honest, I am proud of our attitude towards "strangers". Lets continue with it.

[TBABill]

+1

I help users and read, learn and grow my own skills within both forums. It's nice when users get help wherever they can get it and bad attitudes just rub people the wrong way and turn them away sometimes.

[Robin]

Alot of us participate in both forums and enjoy both communities very much.

[donec]

As a member of the Ubuntu forum since 2008, I want to apologize to anyone reading this post for the response of Artificial Intelligence aka A.I. Dude of the Ubuntu Forum Staff. Not every one in that community would reply in that manner and if the thread was left open then there would have been other replies which may have helped. Please do not condemn the whole forum for one misguided member no matter what their status.

I went to the Ubuntu forum and looked up the referenced post and it has been closed. I happen to agree that it was an improper reply especially to an obviously new member of the forum. Since the thread was closed I sent the following PM to Artificial Intelligence aka A.I. Dude of the Ubuntu Forum Staff.

The Quoted post below sounds a lot like you, and as a member of the staff it implies the entire staff, have no interest in being any help to people using similar distros or derivative distros. They should just go home if they don't us Ubuntu.

Then closing the post after just 5 hours or so stopping any discussion is just plain rude.

I don't think the Ubuntu community is like that as I know as part of the community I am not like that. With that said I think you owe an apology to the entire Ubuntu community for making us look heartless and uncaring.

Hi Waidas

There's a Linux Mint forum to get help with your distro.
You'll find it here: http://forums.linuxmint.com/


regards
A.I. Dude
Ubuntu Forum Staff

Regards
Donec
Ubuntu Community Member

[mads]

Dear donec, thank you so much for your reply and for your PM to A.I. Dude.
The good thing is that the guy who was refused opened a new thread on Mint forums
[Solved] An error occurred while mounting /media/6092-594B
and solved his issue. So no big harm done anyway.
Thank you again for your reply.

[Habitual]

Yeah, the Mods/Staff there are strange.
That thread basically told him, "go ask LM forums" and closed the thread even though it was posted in "other_os".
I got a "Warning" once after expressing my opinion about a subject in a Cafe-style section of the board.
I used the word "idiots" in a post. You can image the context.

I go there when I am Uber-Bored for a dose of Humility.
I see a day when 1000s of users will be fed up and come here.

[lmintnewb]

More ubuntu users, more support over that way. Just saying, one experience doesn't define an entire forum or the support community behind a distro. Since installing mint ( after I tried and got rid of ubuntu 10.10 ). Have been jumping back and forth between the major forums for both distro's.

More than anything wasting time. But to me the linux community is the linux community. Doesn't matter which distro someone prefers. If they run Linux, then we're in the same boat. Had to be a lot of similar experiences that brings people to linux distro's and away from Corp proprietary software to begin with.

Just saying, have found the ubuntu people at the forum I go to very friendly. lol ... although I have promoted mint over their own distro several times there. Keep singing it's praises to them. They don't seem to mind overmuch. Esp considering Mint is based off of releases from the ubuntu developers.

Although I liked Mint better. People using it still have ties with the ubuntu community and the linux family regardless. Just a newb's pointless opinion.

[ThistleWeb]

Mint & Ubuntu are perfect examples of freedom in this context. If you switch to Linux from Windows or OSX, there's a very good chance your landing zone is going to be Ubuntu. After a while you may choose to go exploring the larger Debian family, or even further abroad to the RPM side or the more original distros like Arch or Pardus. The further away you go, the more you have to adjust your newly acquired skills. With Fedora, you don't look for Ubuntu PPAs and use .deb files, in Arch you don't use Synaptic or apt-get etc.

The Ubuntu based derivatives allow you to easily switch and carry ALL your newly acquired skills and knowledge. You can even be assured that all the bookmarks for tutorials, PPAs, tips & tricks are all 100% compatible with no alterations. There is nothing locking you in.

This must make some of the Ubuntu people, or more likely the Canonical people within Ubuntu a bit defensive in trying to stay unique, by painting other derivatives a bit dismissively. There are a lot of distros that really shouldn't exist, that they are little more than a change of default WM or DE, a different theme, and called a distro. Plenty of them are based on Ubuntu. I do understand some of the thinking here, but there are others which are genuine distros in their own rights, simply using another as a base. Mint is one of them.

I think a lot of people in the Ubuntu community have either written off everything based on Ubuntu as a respin, or they're scared of the good ones. They know Canonical have blundered through some unpopular decisions or unpopular in the way they've handled them. They know that people are looking at Unity very sceptically, and claim to want to leave Ubuntu if Unity becomes the Ubuntu default. They know people who are perfectly happy with Ubuntu / Linux / Gnome / Debian and don't like the path Ubuntu are going. They know that many of those people will seek to jump ship.

In general people don't like change, Bill Gates spotted that very early on, it's why Windows is so hard to shift. People disaffected with Canonical can easily jump to one of the Ubuntu derivatives who are not going the Unity route with no effort or adjustment. They know that after people feel compelled to leave, they've little chance of getting them back. They're desperate to keep people and take them to Unity. That can easily account for a defensive or touchy moderator thinking they were doing the right thing by clamping down on any dissent.

They are increasingly marketing Ubuntu as "Ubuntu" not "Linux" too, so people pointing out to new users, that Ubuntu is not unique, that there is an escape route if you don't want the Unity experience could almost be interpreted as a problem. Apple brands as "Mac", there is no "Mac based distro" there is only "Mac".

As much as it's just one over zealous moderator in question here, there is an air of dismissiveness in many Ubuntu areas about other distros. Check the Ubuntu centric podcasts for plenty of examples, where any news story about an Ubuntu derivative is invariably told with a grin and a giggle as if it's just some upstart little kid with delusions of grandeur and should be dismissed as a copycat of the glorious leader.

[lmintnewb]

^ That was incredibly informative and interesting overall.

For some reason I'm starting to really like Mr. thistle, lol. Though this line was a wee bit disturbing.

" They're desperate to keep people and take them to Unity" ... Sounds pretty ominous. I dun wanna go to unity ! Well not unless it's a good kind of unity. Which is one of the reasons I like the opensource communities ideology so much.

I'm always promoting Mint on the main ubuntu forum. They never shut me down ... Well haven't yet anyway. Kind of disturbing if they are trying to shift themselves away from linux. At least in my opinion anyway. Really admire the originators of linux. Starting with the guy who came out with gnu.

Seems like he seldom gets credit. Sheesh, dude's more or less the father of opensource software. Think it'd be really bad taste for ubuntu to try to distance itself from linux though. Kinda like biting the hand that made them possible. Even if they think it gives them some promotions advantage over linux stereotype of being hard geek only software.

Best thing ubuntu imo could do to promote themselves. IS MAKE GREAT SOFTWARE.

Sighs, just wasting more time and thought that was an interesting perspective from thistle. I'm sold on Mint ... though already feeling the itch to install and test drive some others. ... opensuse seems attractive for whatever reason.

(edit:) Just for the record. Finding it hard to see how that mod did anything overly rude. Why go to a ubuntu forum asking about mint. When mint has it's own support forums ? Can't figure out what that mod did that was so wrong. But that's just my take on the situation.

[mads]

For some reason I'm starting to really like Mr. thistle, lol.

Hi lmintnewb.
First, I agree with you about Mr. thistle. His post was really good to describe the current atmosphere in Ubuntu. I enjoyed reading it.

Just for the record. Finding it hard to see how that mod did anything overly rude. Why go to a ubuntu forum asking about mint. When mint has it's own support forums ? Can't figure out what that mod did that was so wrong. But that's just my take on the situation.

You are right, but there is a lot more behind the surface. This is a classic mother/daughter stuff. Lots of feelings involved.

[lmintnewb]

lol ... great, distro politics, sighs.

The bane of humanity ... religion and politics. Just what the opensource community needs to muck it up. I don't understand the politics or the psychology behind any conflict going on. Just interested in an OS that works and works well. Mint seems to be just that, so I'm happy.

That and possibly making some friends in the opensource world. Seems like some of the best and brightest migrate to linux. Will leave the politics and religion to the politicians and priests, lol.

[ThistleWeb]

lol ... great, distro politics, sighs.

Don't mention emacs, I think I may have let it slip once but I think I got away with it.

[ThistleWeb]

To clarify what I meant about Ubuntu wanting to take users to Unity I'll give an analogy; when Coca Cola decided to re-brand Coke with a new recipe, they wanted to keep all their existing customers and gain some new ones with an "all new and improved recipe". What happened went down in history as one of the worst corporate moves ever. The backlash they got forced them to change tracks. They could have abandoned the new Coke but they didn't, they simply made Original Coke as an alternative.

Canonical want to move to Unity, they are part way down that path, they have various milestones and plans all built around achieving that. They want to keep the users they have, but using Unity. Why? They plan on having Unity as the default on 11.04 but have Gnome as an alternate, then by 11.10 Gnome will no longer be an option unless I've misunderstood some posts I've read. They don't want people to leave Ubuntu, they want to encourage people to adopt Unity.

The other side of this is that if Ubuntu turn out to be the only ones using Unity, and they do get enough people using it, it's edging more towards lock-in, in terms of user familiarity. Right now, you can jump to any Gnome distro and a lot is the same. All of the Gnome UI skills you pick up in Mint can easily be used in Fedora, Debian, Mepis etc It looks like that will continue as various distros adopt Gnome 3, but Unity may well be a one distro DE. While there is no lock-in from file formats or applications, UI familiarity is another thing.

Linux is very good at freeing people from being chimps who learn to recognize symbols and press them. The variety of UI's, themes and distros we have means we are able to adapt to where the panels are if there are any, what the right click menu offers, different file managers, different web browsers etc. We can see the function of a thing rather than just the brand of a thing.

That's usually only for users who have an interest in being technically minded. Most computer users don't care about how it works, they just want to switch it on, check their email and get on Facebook etc. They don't want to have to learn computer skills, they don't like change, it's just a tool to be able to stay in touch with friends, or watch videos. Those who Ubuntu have enticed from Windows or OSX to Linux, may well be very comfy with Gnome, it's simple enough for them to use, they've already made the "new platform" migration with all the new skills required, why should they have to move to another new platform that may just add to the confusion? They don't, there are alternatives like Mint, hence the potential for a defensive / dismissive reaction.

[omegaman]

FWIW, I've perused the ubuntu forums but have not interacted over there. Mint is my first real Linux experiment (save for a flirt with Freespire dual boot a number of years ago). I did however install another OS, had a few issues and joined their forum, posted a question or two and got some helpful responses. But, I noticed they use a "dirty word filter" and replaced any mention of other OS with a catch phrase. I did a search and found they "don't discuss other OS"

I'm sorry, I find that extremely immature and immediately deleted my account. I have had (and still have) a few issues with Mint, mostly hardware related, but I have gotten incredible assistance from this community, and admire it's open and honest discussion of all things Linux.

I'm only playing around with it on this laptop which I plan to use as a teleprompter, some word proc, and web, but it has been a incredible learning experience so far.

Thanks!

[MALsPa]

The Ubuntu forums have been a good resource for me when it comes to finding out how to do certain things in Mint. In those cases, I'm not asking Mint-related questions at the Ubuntu forums, though; I'm simply searching the forums to find out how a particular problem was solved, and if it's a solution I can use in Mint. Most of the time, the Ubuntu solution has been something that I could use in Mint.

I'd search the Mint forums first, though. And, in any case, I try to search before posting a question. So I guess I really haven't run into the type of problem that the OP spoke about. If you have a Mint-specific question, it just makes more sense to come to the Mint forums, doesn't it?

[mads]

I'd search the Mint forums first, though. And, in any case, I try to search before posting a question. So I guess I really haven't run into the type of problem that the OP spoke about. If you have a Mint-specific question, it just makes more sense to come to the Mint forums, doesn't it?

Is this

Hi,
I have big problem. My linux mint while booting shows an error: An error occurred while mounting /media/6092-594B. There are two options : Press S to skip mounting or M for manual recovery. I have tried press S, but nothing happens.

a Mint-specific question?

I'll make it easy for you. No, it is not.

[MALsPa]

Is this

Hi,
I have big problem. My linux mint while booting shows an error: An error occurred while mounting /media/6092-594B. There are two options : Press S to skip mounting or M for manual recovery. I have tried press S, but nothing happens.

a Mint-specific question?

I'll make it easy for you. No, it is not.

It's probably not a Mint-specific problem, but since it happened in Linux Mint, why not ask the question at these forums instead of at the Ubuntu forums? I don't know, that's what I'd do; and if I asked the question at the Ubuntu forums, I wouldn't get upset if someone at the Ubuntu forums suggested asking at the Mint forums. But, hey, that's just me.

[mads]

It's probably not a Mint-specific problem, but since it happened in Linux Mint, why not ask the question at these forums instead of at the Ubuntu forums? I don't know, that's what I'd do.

First of all, hi MALsPa and thank you for your replies. Sorry, I forgot to say these in my previous post.

I see that you have been here since 2007, so you have certainly seen Ubuntu users asking their questions here in Mint forums.
Take this one for instance. In her opening post she doesn't mention Ubuntu, but in her subsequent post, she says "I use Ubuntu not Mint ...".
This is only one of many examples.

...and if I asked the question at the Ubuntu forums, I wouldn't get upset if someone at the Ubuntu forums suggested asking at the Mint forums. But, hey, that's just me.

Now, back to the same thread where that Ubuntu user asks her question in Mint forums.

Asking this question on behalf of my Dad.
He puts a music CD into his drive A and a blank disc into drive B...

I don't know if she would or wouldn't get upset if I suggested asking at the Ubuntu forums, but I know this:

Following the restart it worked.
Many thanks for your help - I have a very happy Dad now.

She is happy, her dad is happy. She feels proud of her self helping his dad, and his dad is happy to have a daughter who cares.
Should I, or anybody else, ruin all this simply because she is using Ubuntu. WHY?

[The-Wizard]

I do not see where there is a problem, once you take the clothes off it mint most editions are Ubuntu.
So from the technical base [in theory] any problems in mint should have occurred previously in Ubuntu, why not search out their forums.
Now let us reverse the current, why do we have members who are Ubuntu users, I don't think its an expertise or technical thing. I think it is down to Personality, having read both and asked questions on both [same hardware/software issue], all I got from the other forum was have you tried google [that's how I found my way there], and although it took a while, a kindly member made a few suggestions and nudged me in the right direction enabling me to partly cure the problem.
That's where I see the personality difference, both sites feel to have quite strong personalities BUT mint exudes friendship and comradeship the other the harshness of a technician,

Sorry if I ramble and hope you understand from whence I come.

wizard

[lmintnewb]

Thought that was a good clarification on the "take people to unity" thing Thistleweb. Got the basic idea you were getting at originally. But had to be a butthead over the situation. It did sound funny. Keeping people and taking them to unity. Sounds like summin the Borg would do, ya know ? lol.

Guess I havent had enough experience with the ubuntu forum. Ubuntu 10.10 was horrid, lol. Immediately overwrote it with Mint 10. So spend more time here. Have seen problems solved for users over on the ubuntu forum within a couple mins of posting though. At least the threads marked as resolved anyway. Shrugs ... hadn't noticed much of a difference in personality between either community's forum.

Oh well ... though do agree it makes more sense to ask about a Mint issue, on a linux mint forum. Rather than a ubuntu linux forum regardless. As if anyone cares, definitely agree that "google it", shouldn't be considered an appropriate answer to someone having a technical problem, lol.

But then what do I know, I'm only an opinionated linux newb.