Why do new people give up on Linux?

[FranzB]

I agree with Randomizer if it relates to free software and not to software developed by some large company that pays the programmers. But there is nothing wrong with having a second look at the program once it is finshed, either by the programmer himself or, even better, by another one, and polish it so that others can use it without too many problems. Articles, e.g. in scientific journals, are always reviewed or refereed by others in the same field before they are published and often changes are suggested, sometimes these are even required. It does not mean that the work is useless or bad; it is simply polished so that others can take advantage of the author's creativity.

And while I am at it, this thread "Why do people give up on Linux?" is all very interesting of course but it is, in my opinion, one step too far for finding the reasons why only 2% of the computers use a Linux OS. The question should be "Why don't people give Linux a try?" And then I have to point out again that for the majority of users "out there" the reasons are the flollowing.

1) There are too many Linux programs to chose from. All very nice and well but 90% of those "out there" haven't a clue to what the differences are and it requires a lot of work to chose one if that is possible at all form a distance. Just Linux Mint itself has all kinds of variants. The Linux community itself has to make choices of what programs to highlight for the general public and give some indication of what can be expected and for whom these are suitable. I would suggest to limit it to only 3 programs. Once people have crossed the line they are more inclined to try out
all possibilities available. Just don't bombard them at the start with an endless list of possibilities. Like it or not but most people will be turned off.

2) Buying a CD-R to install the program should be the first option presented to those "out there" who want to try it. I am pretty sure that most people would have problems burning their own CD and stay away from it. Look, if you are here browsing the forum you are already not part of those "out there" but you can still try to look inside their heads. The price of obtaining a CD is practically negligible. When you are done with producing your own CD you have earned something like 1 pound per hour.

3) Give people easy to follow instructions how to install the program. I don't see anything wrong with installing it alongside a Windows program and not partioning the hard disk. Leave the rest out; it only gives people doubts again. Give some instructions of how much space to allocate to Linux, depending on how much free space there is. How much as a minimum and how much as a maximum, all with a safety margin. Again, once people have been using the program they can always go to partioning the hard disk. So far this procedure has not given me any problems. Yes, I know....if....etc.etc. However, to try out a Linux program it is good enough.

4) From the beginning people should know that they can always uninstall the program again without too much work or antics. Give clear instructions right from the beginning.

5) (This is not only related to the subject here) Wouldn't it be better to give people instructions using flow charts? Along the lines of (old?) programming languages, viz. "if this, than go to....", "if not this, than go to....", etc. One picture is better than a thousand words you have to read again and again. One glance is all you need.

I am well aware of the fact that this does not cover everything or is without the need of improvements. I have read a few threads with all kinds of suggestions to promote Linux, like T-shirts etc.etc. Really? Let's get serious. It should be simple to start with Linux and get rid of it if not wanted any longer. That message should come across in whatever way possible. Sorry to say it but that is not the case at present.

[Kilz]

I have just read the last 2 pages of this post. For the most part each and every problem pointed out is not really a problem. What it is is expectations that the people have. To end that issue I recommend reading this page http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

[FranzB]

After having read the words given in the link by Kilz it looks that I did a lot of work to more or less invent the wheel again, except maybe for #5 of my last posting. The trouble, though, is that there is no date on that webpage, something that is done all too often and is very annoying. Things may have changed with the appearance of recent Linux editions.
As to the expectations of people: why are those present in the first place? Could it be a question of having obtained not so realistic cons and pros? Maybe.

[kmb42vt]

After having read the words given in the link by Kilz it looks that I did a lot of work to more or less invent the wheel again, except maybe for #5 of my last posting. The trouble, though, is that there is no date on that webpage, something that is done all too often and is very annoying. Things may have changed with the appearance of recent Linux editions.
As to the expectations of people: why are those present in the first place? Could it be a question of having obtained not so realistic cons and pros? Maybe.

I agree and they have come a long way. The "Linux is not Windows" article may still be a good read but the article itself is rather dated (I think it was published in either 2007 or 2008 since it still mentions "Linspire" as a viable Linux based OS (Linspire was launched in 2007 and discontinued in 2008). 3 to 4 years tends to be an a long time as far as computer technology/software is concerned and the most popular Linux distros have indeed come a long way since then.

[Kilz]

Linux is not windows is still very relevant. Because people coming to Linux, most of whom come from Windows, have expectations and experiences based on the previous operating system. I know I did. The versions may change, but the expectations dont. For example 3a in the article is a common expectation today because Windows users expect a specific level of service or polish because they are used to dealing not with a community, but a company. So we get rants and rages and "I'm going back" posts. Linke that is somehow hurting the open source application/distro. Cluebat, it isnt.
Windows users to this day install the latest and newest open source code, and then complain about how buggy it is. Its a different viewpoint based on the fact that they in the past paid for a product. Now since they have downloaded something that has similar functionality, they expect the same lack of bugs. But open source isnt done like that. Part of downloading and installing the newest code comes with the responsibility and the expectation that the person will find and report bugs and perhaps fix them themselves.
Those that think its dated are perhaps only fooling themselves or perhaps trying to find some way out of it applying to them. The names may have changed, but the issues remain. I think one of the prime culprits of fostering the idea that Linux = Windows is Ubuntu. They have all but outlawed telling new windows users that the problem isnt a problem, but that its to be expected.
I have no problem helping people. But sometimes the issue is pebkac and their expectations.

[Telecaster72]

The only other Linux system I've tried is Ubuntu 10.10, which was very slow too. I'll try installing another system today. Which one? I'd prefer something Ubuntu-based. Specs: ASUS W5000 Notebook. 492116 kB RAM
Any recommendations? Thanks

As mentioned before the Debian based versions is easier on your RAM and i think the XFCE version would be fast on your notebook, they require a little more tinkering though than the Ubuntu based ones when it comes to updates, proprietary graphic drivers and such. The plus side is that they are rolling releases wich means that you dont have to do a complete reinstall when a new version comes out like Ubuntu and regular Mint.
If you want to go the Ubuntu based way, why dont you give the LXDE version a whirl? It´s based on openbox window manager and should be lighting fast even on your computer. http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=1705
If you already have Mint or Ubuntu installed you can just install the LXDE or XFCE desktop environments through synaptic, then choose one of them instead of Gnome at the log in screen and that should save you some RAM as compared to running Gnome.

[lmintnewb]

Sure it's been said and said again.

One of the biggest reasons in my opinion. So many systems come preinstalled with winblows. Might not like him, but have to admit B gates and M$ ... know a thing or two about marketing. That being when someone gets used to something, they tend to stick with it.

Once someone gets used to M$ stuff + with it coming preinstalled on a majority of comps. It's just natural for people to stick to it. Learning anything else, even something that's a step up and FREE ... like linux. Takes them out of that routine and comfort zone. Bothering to learn even the minor differences in accomplishing common tasks with one of the linux GUI's is considered too much aggravation.

People are creatures of habit ... and the habit in over 90+ percent of the personal computing market is M$.

[FranzB]

I have to agree with Imintnewb (just above this posting).
I started out with a reply but somehow it was not loaded (how can I be in the "Post a reply" without having logged in?).
So I'll make it short the second time around. It may even be better to do that.
"Linux" has to make up its mind what it wants. Appealing to a small group of enthousiasts or to the general
public out there. You have to make a choice. Before an idea goes into production a lot of work has to be done.
And the one who had the idea should not get upset when it gets polished by other people. That's life, take it or leave it. It still remains his idea, however.

[lmintnewb]

THAT'S SO UNTRUE !!!

I've never told anyone that linux can do great landscaping in san fransico ! Though it probably can if someone knows what they're doing with it !!!


Kidding around, agree you have a point. I don't oversell linux, a newb myself. After checking out Mint though. Don't have any reservations about encouraging people to give it a try, shrugs. Next system I make for myself is going to be designed for linux from the ground up too.

lol ... there was a spammer post above mine. The mods mustve canned it, was wondering what Linux had to do with landscaping, shrugs.

[inktitan]

I have to agree with Imintnewb (just above this posting).
I started out with a reply but somehow it was not loaded (how can I be in the "Post a reply" without having logged in?).
So I'll make it short the second time around. It may even be better to do that.
"Linux" has to make up its mind what it wants. Appealing to a small group of enthousiasts or to the general
public out there. You have to make a choice. Before an idea goes into production a lot of work has to be done.
And the one who had the idea should not get upset when it gets polished by other people. That's life, take it or leave it. It still remains his idea, however.

Open Source leads to open opinions and this is why we have so many distros. Fedora, Ubuntu, Mint and others try to aim for larger markets well users as market implies monetary transaction. But Slackware distros like Salix Os aim for a small few enthusiasts. There exist many distros also because of language and culture. To say Linux needs to make up it mind on what it should be is like saying the world should make up its mind on what every individual should be. Linux was built to have many options and styles. If people want to have no options, no choices, no second opinion, no control they can use Mac OS. Linux is not about making money therefore it can not appeal to the majority. Linux is not about spending money to advertise. Quite the opposite actually. Most distros advertise to make money. Most people probably give up on Linux because they can not understand the philosophy. "This program doesn't work! so Linux doesn't work!" Most people do not want to use much of there brain when it come to using something. Notice how Apple is doing so well when they are not better than Windows. PCs are cheaper than Macs and can potentially get better than a Mac could ever dream but that requires brain power. And then other people do not want to here the truth about them being lazy. If you want everything to work all the time and at its best you have to research and work for it. That goes for more than OSs. You can dish out money to save yourself from labor but are likely to be ripped off. P.S,. Linux is a continent with many countries and many cultures in those countries. Why would you tell the continent to make up its mind? Is all of Europe uniform? Linux said "I will make computers work" and it has. How they work is up to the people. If the people do not want that they are free to move on. No strings, no commitment, no financial investment, no obligation. Its free to come and free to go. If the more than 300 distros and the choices there in are too much for people I wonder how they dress or buy a car or a home. Why would you want one uniform existence? I am sorry for singling you out it is just that I see this argument a lot and it is in this topic several times. You make good points if you were speaking to the board a profit seeking business. But Linux has been around for a Long time and will continue to be if it makes a decision or not.

[FranzB]

Reply to Inktitan.
All very well but then why start a thread "Why do new people give up on Linux?" ????
Who cares?

[inktitan]

Reply to Inktitan.
All very well but then why start a thread "Why do new people give up on Linux?" ????
Who cares?

Because people's opinions matter. The developers of Mint care. Personally i try to help spread the word and try to get people to stay. I have become greatly biased if a person leaves Linux for any reason aside from gaming i think they are wrong. But i do like to see those reasons stated even if i feel compeled to argue the point. I suppose it is more self serving than helpful. I am more likely to offend than enlighten. But you are right this forum is for complaints and suggestions.

[lmintnewb]

Not to encourage a flame war or nuttin. Actually like the OP's outlook. Not siding ... but who cares ? lol ... 30 pages of responses so far do. Oops 31pgs.

[AlbertP]

Topic used to have exactly 600 replies before yours. Oops, 602.

[inktitan]

Not to encourage a flame war or nuttin. Actually like the OP's outlook. Not siding ... but who cares ? lol ... 30 pages of responses so far do. Oops 31pgs.

I think he was being sarcastic. He was asking me why would they post the topic if nobody cares. I could be wrong on his intent but giving the context I kind of came off saying that this topic was pointless. Which was not my intent.

[lmintnewb]

lol ... oh I thought you were the OP. Agree with a bunch of stuff ya said anyway. No worries. I've been awake too long and am in desperate need of more caffeine.

[inktitan]

lol ... oh I thought you were the OP. Agree with a bunch of stuff ya said anyway. No worries. I've been awake too long and am in desperate need of more caffeine.

[kmb42vt]

lol ... oh I thought you were the OP. Agree with a bunch of stuff ya said anyway. No worries. I've been awake too long and am in desperate need of more caffeine.

Ah, a true geek,then. Either that or you're involved in technical support.

[AK Dave]

Because they're conditioned to be lazy.

[FranzB]

Just a question.
When I go to "Linux for newbies" the thread is not listed any longer. At least I cannot see it.
I can get in by gooooogling for "Why do new people ....etc.". Yeah yeah.... leave it to Mr.G. They must spy out the forum without interruption. Last entry Google gives was 10 hrs ago. George Orwell would not have thought of it.
I can get in too if i click on "View your posts".
What happened? Am I barred, banned, exiled or what?