Dual Boot Mint 10 (Julia) with LMDE

[Meteor]

I am currently running Julia and she is performing very nicely. However, she is also aging so I'm considering LMDE as I like the rolling release idea. I have been reading through a vast number of posts in this forum but am not able to find any information specifically about booting Julia and LMDE. I know it can be done. A majority of dual boot posts involve Mint and Windows which, it seems to me, to be a different procedure entirely.

I have an "experienced" notebook with a 100 GB hard drive. Julia was assigned about 60% of the space (and has made a tiny dent in it). The remaining 40% is "unallocated". No formatting, no assigned sda# (or whatever). GParted just shows it as being a dull grey area on it's diagram. How do I assign this roughly 40% of my hard drive to LMDE? Do I need to tell GParted somehow to use it for LMDE? Do I break it up into a "/", "/boot", "/home" partitions and tell LMDE to go there and nowhere else. If so, how do I tell LMDE to follow those instructions?

I'm sure there's a "how-to" somewhere in this forum but it has escaped me. I've searched using the terms "dual boot", "Julia", "Mint 10", "LMDE" in various combinations but end up with mainly windows dual boots. I'm sure it's somewhat similar but Linux and windows speak different languages, it seems. (I haven't used windows in more than 5 years now so it's ancient history to me...)

I would appreciate a pointer to where I should have looked or explicit instructions on how to have Julia join forces with LMDE on my PC ("refurbished" Gateway MX-something purchased in 2006 with XP. Linux installed within six months, Mint 12 months later (I forget who "she" was...) and the PC has been green since), one GB RAM, 100 GB HDD).

Thank you in advance for your forthcoming assistance. (If more info required, please ask.)

Meteor

[rob2uk]

The installation is pretty straightforward - just choose the 'install alongside...' option, it'll set everything else up automatically.

[Meteor]

The installation is pretty straightforward - just choose the 'install alongside...' option, it'll set everything else up automatically.

Thanks rob2uk. I hesitated in doing this as I'm aware that LMDE required everything be setup prior to installation. I'll give it a shot and see what happens...

Meteor

[lauren]

Hi Meteor!
Please attach a screenshot of GParted.
I would use one of the latest versions [0.8] - e.g. GParted live or PartedMagic (6.2 is out with GParted and other tools).
Important: I never use "alongside" - don't trust any automatism, because you don't know what happens and lose control.
The best idea is preparing partitions with Gparted at least one for "/" and one for "/home". And you must think about a
swap partition; if you have enough RAM (4 or more GB) and don't use "suspend to disk" you don't need a swap partiton
(my experiences on several notebooks, some with and some without swap).
lauren

Edit:
You could first run (supposing you have Gnome)

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sudo fdisk -l

lowercase "L"
and

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sudo parted -l print

and post the outputs, but we need to see the window of GParted, too.
KDE: first

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su -

then command without "sudo"

[lauren]

Hi Meteor!
After having read your original post:
1. I suppose you only have one partition for Julia and you have no problem to boot to Desktop.
Could you please post: 32 or 64 bit and Desktop: Gnome?
2. Julia Installation: Option? (You did not prepare partitions?)
3. Your RAM size is 1 GB, so if you want a swap partition, 1- 1.5 GB will be enough;
BTW: If you prepare partitions with GParted: choose Size in GB * 1024 ( 1.5 GB -> choose size 1536), analog for home,...
lauren

[lmintnewb]

I would say do it manually dood. Like Lauren said ... sometimes allowing software to make choices for ya is a bad idea. Can't hurt getting your hands dirty. Based on what folks have said about Mint's debian stuff. Any of them would be a good candidate imo to set up a separate /home partition for. As for exact sizing of the root partition > /. Not sure, could hold off until one of the lmde officials offer some insight. Would think 5-6gbs would be more than enough, shrugs.

Might also not be a bad idea to skip installing it's bootloader and just use the one you already have to boot it too or install it's bootloader to it's own partition instead of letting it take over the mbr of your drive. Hopefully Mint includes that option in their debian versions installers ? Only ever used Mint 10 myself. So kinda talking out of turn. Mainly just basing the advice above on limited experience with linux in general and what I've seen in this forum. If ya find out it doesn't get along with your hardware or whatever n you want to get rid of it. Not having to reinstall grub makes nixin the install a bit easier I'd think.

Would also say it can't hurt to get familiar with backing up your OS's now ... esp lmde, do it periodically as ya go along etc. Clonezilla, remasteredsys so forth ... Setting up a small recovery partition or however ya go about it. In case you run into the dreaded lmde update borkage ya see all the time mentioned on the forum. Then you can restore the not too outdated working backup you made and be prepared for happier lmde computing quickly. Backing things up is a good practice to get into no matter what it seems. Don't see how it could hurt someone and could save somebody a lot of time and grief in a pinch.

That's about all my newbish opinions I have to offer atm. Live long and prosper ... if the gawds deem ye worthy lad.

[lauren]

HI!
1. Seeley has written 2 howtos concerning LMDE installation:
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=63013/url
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=141&t=62603&p=360138#p360138/url
2. Boot loader: You can choose (verified)
a. no boot loader, b. MBR of all recognized hard disks (and USB flash), c. PBR (e.g. root partition);
in Meteor's case I would install Grub/LMDE in the root partition (or, if he creates an own boot partition, in the boot partition) of LMDE - the GRUB of Julia (in MBR, I suppose) will recognize LMDE by running

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sudo update-grub

But if you choose "no grub" during LMDE installation, it works too (I've tried that!).
lauren

[Meteor]

Thank you to lauren and lmintnewb for your replies. I'm surprised as it appeared this thread appeared to have faded off into the sunset.

I tried rob2uk's suggestion to "install alongside". However, I did not understand that choice. Since Julia occupied approx. 1/2 of my hard drive and the rest was "unallocated", I attempted to allocate that section with GParted from the LMDE LiveCD. I guess I pressed the wrong key. The entire drive became "unallocated"... I certainly learned something -- use GParted on a drive that is not allocated or can be entirely reformatted. Julia was reinstalled by herself using the entire drive and I left this message in abeyance.

Now that it is back to life:

lauren: "Take Screenshot" appears to be the "camera" function and GParted is not part of a full install. However, it will probably show that Julia is installed on the entire 100 GB disk with swap at 2 and some decimal point of space, / at 5 or 10 GB (don't recall how much) and the other 85 +/- GB is /home. Quick, simple and running nicely. I am running Gnome and looking at the Gnome LMDE. (Xfce and I are not comfortable together...) RAM is all of 1 GB -- it's an elderly notebook.

From the terminal, I got the following information:

Disk /dev/sda: 100.0 GB, 100030242816 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 12161 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00032826

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sda1 * 1 11813 94883840 83 Linux
/dev/sda2 11813 12162 2799617 5 Extended
/dev/sda5 11813 12162 2799616 82 Linux swap / Solaris

Disk /dev/sdc: 8036 MB, 8036285952 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 977 cylinders
Units = cylinders of 16065 * 512 = 8225280 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000

Device Boot Start End Blocks Id System
/dev/sdc1 1 976 7839698 b W95 FAT32

I would like to have both Julia and LMDE installed and be able to select with whom to work. Julia is 32 bit. I have worked with GParted a couple of times but there are gaps between those times. GParted is not an "everyday" programme for me. I have a fair idea of how it works (but it can obviously surprise me, too...).

lmintnewb: "dood"? Interesting, I'm in my sixties but I guess I can qualify for doodness now-a-daze. If a "bootloader" is something important, I'll look into it but again I don't recall having to make a choice about that. Although one should not "assume"... I did assume that GRUB would be assigned by the install programmes to provide me with a choice to boot either the lovely Julia or the up-and-coming LMDE before asking me to commit myself.

Backing up has been something I've done for years. However, the backups are my files. A single OS is usually "easy" to install so I haven't made a complete operating system with documents backup nor have I had a need. I agree, however, that it is an extremely good idea. I'm aware of Clonezilla but not of "remasteredsys". I'll Google it (from the Mint homepage...) and see what it is about.

I appreciate your assistance and await your further comments, instructions, advice.

Meteor
Canada, eh!

[Meteor]

lauren:

I had forgotten about seeley and his/her helpful info. We had an exchange of messages a decade or so back about something that concerned me. Thank you for bringing his/her name back. I will check out the links you provided.

Meteor

[lauren]

Hi Meteor!
If you have a live medium LMDE, you can test from that (after having booted to Desktop Gnome) - not from the distribution on hd, Julia - Gparted;

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gparted

or

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sudo gparted

or

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sudo su

followed by

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gparted

if not installed please install it - you will get a message how to install it ("apt-get...").
But, in that case, of course after reboot GParted is not available and must be installed again.
But a better way is downloading PartedMagic and burn an image - it contains the latest GParted and other tools.
In any case:
You can test GParted without loss of data, if you don't choose "apply" and - important at the end of the test - choose "undo all operations".
lauren

[lauren]

Hi Meteor!
What does your output show ("fdisk -l" as root):
You have one primary partition, /dev/sda1, ("/"?!) about 97% and one extended partition, /dev/sda2, about 3% containing only one logical partition, sda5, (swap!) - no own home partition.
Please post

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sudo parted -l print

to see the sizes and if partition table entries are in disk order (I suppose, yes).
In any case we need a screenshot1 (current situation) of Gparted, because I highly recommend to partition the hd with GParted before installing; later on, after partitioning, you can attach a screenshot2 and ask, if it is okay and afterwards start with the LMDE installation. If the partitioning is not okay, we can change it - no problem.
But Backup important data!
lauren

[Meteor]

Hi lauren. Thanks for your latest replies and I really appreciate your mentoring in this.

Here is the output from "parted -l":

Model: ATA HTS541010G9AT00 (scsi)
Disk /dev/sda: 100GB
Sector size (logical/physical): 512B/512B
Partition Table: msdos

Number Start End Size Type File system Flags
1 1049kB 97.2GB 97.2GB primary ext4 boot
2 97.2GB 100GB 2867MB extended
5 97.2GB 100GB 2867MB logical linux-swap(v1)

I've made a screen photo (my very first...) of GParted's "diagram" and tried to paste it here. Doing so, only shows the title of a file on my back-up drive which will not do you any good. Essentially, the photo shows a little bit of yellow at the beginning (left side) of the long rectangle and the rest is grey, presumably meaning nothing is there. I'm not aware of how one transfers an actual photo onto this message... If there's a way, please let me know and I'll add it into another message. (Sometimes I'm still a rookie but learning something new is a joy.)

When I installed Julia as she now runs, I did it the quick 'n' easy(?) way letting the LiveDVD do its thing. Hence, I have the file setup as shown above. I don't really care for this but I needed to be up and running quickly. I'm very aware that there's probably a lot of fiddling around to properly set up the hard drive for both Julia and LMDE. It may be easier to clean the hard drive, format it the right way with GParted with space for both Julia (or maybe even Katya so I get LibreOffice) and LMDE.

Have a good evening,
Meteor

[lauren]

Hi Meteor!
1. As I was assuming, the installation of Julia is not ideal:
you have a root partition ~97 GB and swap 3 GB and no home!
The best way would be partitioning with GParted and afterwards install Julia and LMDE. The LMDE installation has one plus:
You can do all steps, see an overview and quit without writing files to hd.
2. I repeat: In any case we need screenshots, so please try it again.
a. Take screenshot, save it, b, below of your POST A REPLY choose Upload attachment, c, browse to the folder containing the screenshot, open it , d, Add the file and place it online.
3.

...letting the LiveDVD do its thing

Please don't repeat that!
4. If necessary: save data, boot from live LMDE (because LMDE/GP 0.7 I suppose; Julia: GP 0.6), or better:
download PartedMagic, burn an image and boot from PM - it is an operating system, but has many useful tools and you can access all files and connect to the net - so you can partition, take screenshot, attach from that PM Desktop.
5. One possible partitioning:
rootJulia, homeJulia, swap, rootLMDE, homeLMDE.
I made many tests where to create swap - it makes no difference.
So I would create primary partitions for rootJulia, homeJulia and swap and an extended partition containing the logical partitions rootLMDE and homeLMDE.
Sizes: rootJulia 8 - 12 GB, rootLMDE 10 - 14 GB, swap 1.5 GB (if RAM is 1 GB), homes as you want each ~30 - 40 GB.
To see your RAM / swap:

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free

lauren

Edit:
http://partedmagic.com/doku.php?id=programs

[lauren]

Hi Meteor!
There is no quite certain way, because partitioning "has the potential to cause LOSS of DATA"
(See GParted Manual: http://gparted.sourceforge.net/display- ... ual&lang=C

PartedMagic contains GParted 0.8 - the best precondition for success.

Here are the steps with GP:
1. right click on /dev/sda5 (log. partition, swap) -> delete
2. right click on /dev/sda2 (EXTENDED, container for log. part.) -> delete
3. right click on /dev/sda1 (primary partition, root) -> delete
[On the bottom you will see "pending operations".]
4. Then you can "Undo last op.", "clear all op." or "apply".
After having applied, you only should see unallocated space ~ 100GB.
5. Click on it, choose Partition/ New
to first create your Julia root partition
- as primary, file system ext4, label rootJulia, new size e.g. 8192 MB
[supposing 8 GB -> 8 *1024 = 8192],
Add.
You then see: partition #1, 8.00 GiB and unallocated [ ~92 ].
6. Repeat, starting by a click in unallocated,...
lauren

[lauren]

Hi Meteor!
We have a little problem: Monday, June 20., is the last day I can be online for about 2 weeks.
So, if possible, we should try to partition your hd and install Julia befoe that calendar date.
lauren

[Meteor]

Good morning, lauren (it is 0830 here in Western Canada). I've just read your notice that you're gone for two weeks. This is OK by me. The current installation of Julia is working well and you've provided a considerable amount of information for me to review and study/work with while you're "off-line".

The next three days for me are busy. What I will do is review and assimilate all of your suggestions/instructions and see if I can make it work. Immediate thoughts will be to reinstall Julia with a /, /boot, /home partition and set up a / and /home for LMDE. I figure there's a way to tell LMDE to go to it's portion of the hard drive and to find the correct boot section -- I'll have to find it/read the multitude of threads in this forum -- and see what I come up with. Perhaps LMDE should be first in /boot. I'm guessing that has been discussed already...

It is not imperative for me to install LMDE immediately. I have no deadlines. LMDE is just preparation for the future with Linux Mint.

Enjoy your time away.

Meteor

[lauren]

Hi Meteor!

Enjoy your time away.

Thank you!
But some thoughts:
a) You don't need boot partitions
b) New installation:
b1, Mint1 (Julia or LMDE): boot loader Grub 1.9x should be installed into the MBR of your (first) hd
b2, LMDE has the option "no boot loader", Julia does not
b3, in any case, I would install the second Grub (1.9x, too) in the PBR (boot partition, if you prepare one or root partition, if not);
if installation fails, you can repeat the second installation with "no boot loader" (so: LMDE = Mint2!)
A

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sudo update-grub

in Mint1 will find your Mint2.
If you don't change boot loader device during second installation, your Grub in the MBR will be overwritten!
lauren