Mint versus Fedora

[MALsPa]

The only "Fedora-vs-Mint" issue that matters to me is that Fedora doesn't offer LTS (Long Term Support) editions.

Yeah, Fedora's 12-13 month support cycle could be a big drawback for some people.

[zerozero]

just for the record, fedora has a rolling branch (rawhide), but if the regular fedora branch is already (by some) considered unstable, rawhide is volatile, it can break on you (did on me several times, until i gave up) for no apparent reason.
It's a non-point release, but it's no option

[linuxviolin]

The only "Fedora-vs-Mint" issue that matters to me is that Fedora doesn't offer LTS (Long Term Support) editions.

Yeah, Fedora's 12-13 month support cycle could be a big drawback for some people.

Well, this is not a "drawback". It's Fedora and Fedora is not for newbie. For Fedora it's a "feature" and a "necessity" probably...

if the regular fedora branch is already (by some) considered unstable, rawhide is volatile, it can break on you (did on me several times, until i gave up) for no apparent reason.

Well, there are reasons, sorry. And the last versions of Fedora are not so unstable and the problems, at least in recent times and maybe/normally in the future (see their new "charter" to make the distro more stable and maybe a little less bleeding edge) are/seem/could be less frequent.

I don't see why there is in this forum a topic Fedora vs. Mint. They are two different distros, with two different views and targets and they have not at all the same goals... And it's rpm instead deb.

there is no denying that Fedora is one of the most innovative distributions available today. Its contributions to the Linux kernel, glibc and GCC are well-known and its more recent integration of SELinux functionality, Xen virtualisation technologies and other enterprise-level features are much appreciated among the company's customers. On a negative side, Fedora still lacks a clear desktop-oriented strategy that would make the product easier to use for those beyond the "Linux hobbyist" target.

Pros: Highly innovative; outstanding security features; large number of supported packages; strict adherence to the Free Software philosophy
Cons: Fedora's priorities tend to lean towards enterprise features, rather than desktop usability

(DistroWatch in Top Ten Distributions - An overview of today's top distributions)

About the Nvidia driver, it runs quite well. I have Nvidia cards in all my computers and never had problems with Nvidia drivers in Fedora, at least in recent times. But you must blacklist Nouveau. About the MS Fonts, you can install them by hand, it's quite easy. I guess I have also seen a rpm for them. Unfortunately, I have forgotten where, so I have no more its address, I'm sorry. If I can remember I'll post it here. But the install by hand is really not difficult. (You have no real need for a rpm, neither for created one. You can just install them like you install any fonts in the system)

For the record, I have one "test" computer which had until recently Fedora 15 32 bit since Alpha and another one also with F15 64 bit, both being the XFCE Spin (I also tried the KDE Spin), with no problems. Even before, my "test" computer had F14 updated from F13 with preupgrade, so no need for reinstall, without problems.

[zerozero]

linuxviolin,

I don't see why there is in this forum a topic Fedora vs. Mint. They are two different distros, with two different views and targets and they have not at all the same goals... And it's rpm instead deb.

because we can maybe in other places this looks a bit strange, but here we have no problem talking (comparing, even promoting) other distros;

And the last versions of Fedora are not so unstable

as i said, or at least tried , if i stay away from rawhide, fedora runs very well: my F15 install, after a few issues around march/april (beta stage) is solid (and even then most of the problems were the gtk2/gtk3 transition and not really fedora's related)

[Forkjulle]

So, with all these great comments, does anyone have an idea - a guess, even - what the next Mint might look like (with Gnome 3)?

[linuxviolin]

I don't see why there is in this forum a topic Fedora vs. Mint. They are two different distros, with two different views and targets and they have not at all the same goals... And it's rpm instead deb.

because we can maybe in other places this looks a bit strange, but here we have no problem talking (comparing, even promoting) other distros;

Of course we can, and fortunately! But if you re-read my post I didn't say we couldn't but just the "versus" was not appropriate because Mint and Fedora can't be really compared as their goals are not the same, like their targets, their views etc. That's all. But of course and fortunately there is no problem for a discuss about any distro... and even about Windows!

as i said, or at least tried , if i stay away from rawhide, fedora runs very well: my F15 install, after a few issues around march/april (beta stage) is solid (and even then most of the problems were the gtk2/gtk3 transition and not really fedora's related)

Rawhide unstable? Well, is it not a pleonasm and more and less normal? About F15, as I said I also had it, the XFCE Spin (I'll never use the main edition because GNOME 3), on my test PC since Alpha with no real blocking problems. (Now this computer has Mageia Cauldron) But I don't like very much the KDE Spin. It is quite buggy and worse than Mageia, even Cauldron is much better. Mageia KDE is far less buggy than Fedora KDE... and relatively light, at the contrary of Fedora KDE. And as I already said elsewhere, yum is still a gazillion times slower than urpmi (also valid for the GUI tools), despite the fact that they’re both managing RPMs.

But I don't say Fedora is a bad distro. Proof, I always have it on my main desktop (XFCE Spin 64 bit)... for now because probably I can wipe out the disk for Mageia KDE soon.

[zerozero]

(I'll never use the main edition because GNOME 3)

really no need to say it knowing you a bit

But I don't like very much the KDE Spin. It is quite buggy and worse than Mageia,

me neither, was exactly the KDE spin that broke on me a couple times (ok, i was all the time pushing it to rawhide, but...);
and besides, what i found more disturbing (at the time i was already running chakra - a gtk-free distro) was the amount of gtk and gnome libs bundled in the system! (gnome-icon-theme < really? in a KDE distro? why?) so when it crashed second time, i decided was time to look somewhere else;

Mageia? haven't boot it in a long time, sure have to

[mads]

Found a very interesting link where 'valentt' (the guy behind Fusion Linux) starts a thread with the title 'Fuduntu and Fusion Linux'
on the Fuduntu forums. It is unbelievable how he humiliates himself trying to get some help from 'fewt' (the guy behind Fuduntu).
Later on when he continues to insist, some other Fuduntu users give him some good uppercuts until he is knocked out.
http://www.fuduntu.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=298

[linuxviolin]

me neither, was exactly the KDE spin that broke on me a couple times (ok, i was all the time pushing it to rawhide, but...);

I had problems even although I didn't "pushing it to Rawhide". And it is relatively heavy. My test computer, an "a little old although quite decent" computer, was barely responsible sometimes when Mageia almost flies on it.

About gnome-icon-theme, I also have it in Mageia, but I don't remember if it was there after the install or perhaps because I use some GNOME apps. As the majority of people, I use a desktop with its apps but also with apps from another desktop... So, you need GNOME packages.

About Chakra, it can be good but a little dumb the people of Chakra: « Chakra is by default a GTk free distribution... » This is just, err, well... dumb? It's my opinion, you may not agree of course.

Mageia? haven't boot it in a long time, sure have to

Well, you can... but nothing forces you to!

mads, I always prefer use "the original" rather a remix, specially one like Fusion or Fuduntu...

[zerozero]

mads, interesting topic that, about the cooperation (or the lack of) between distros

linuxviolin, i'm a big fan of chakra (sorry we have to disagree here ) their KDE implementation is unique, being gtk-free is an advantage if:

Code: Select all

Bundle System

Chakra's success is proof that a system built on KDE/Qt-only software works. However, there are some key applications that users may need that are left out of the Chakra Repositories. The goal of The Bundle System is to “fill in these little needs.”

Instead of bloating a sleek operating system with Gnome and GTK dependencies that rarely get used, our Bundles (or here) allow programs like Firefox, Chromium, LibreOffice, and The Gimp to run in Chakra from completely self-contained packages.

        Community Driven - The best GTK apps are chosen and built by the Chakra Community as well as the lead development team.

        Self-Contained - Bundles are auto-mountable file systems and include all the necessary files needed to run the application.

        User-Friendly - User configuration files are stored within the bundle assuring a clean Home directory.

        Fast - Optimized builds allow bundles to run cleanly at native or near-native speeds.

We are committed to KDE. We love it and it works very well. It is unfortunate that some great applications don't meet our requirements but we are happy to make them available as bundles or through the CCR. If there is an application you would like to see included, feel free to let us know. Sometimes apps only need minimal tweaking to fit within our system so be sure to let the developers know there is an interest in a KDE-friendly version and offer your help if you can.

and bundles work already pretty good now;

apart from that, chakra moved away from arch, is now a fork, and no more compatible because:

Code: Select all

Half-Rolling Release Model

From the beginning, Chakra was based upon the concept of a "Half-Rolling Release Model,” a rolling release, with a stable core.

What this means is that Chakra's core packages (graphics, sound, etc.) are only upgraded after the latest versions have been thoroughly vetted as part of our continuous testing cycle, before being moved to the stable repositories. There is no set time-frame for release cycles thereby avoiding certain short-cuts and feature lag. Instead, core updates will be rolled out continuously as they are ready and new Live CD builds will be updated appropriately, often around key KDE releases. Applications and components not related to the core system are continuously updated and generally available immediately upon their release.

For the end-user this provides at least a three-fold benefit:

        One Install - You will only have to install the system once and all future upgrades will be fully available through the repositories.
        The Latest Software - As your favorite programs mature and advance, you will always have access to the latest version. Chakra is often one of the first to add the new updates to its repositories[5].
        Advanced and Stable Core - Unlike a full rolling-release, core system components are able to be tested more thoroughly while retaining a quick development cycle.



and this works very well to: i follow the testing repos (there's also stable) and apart from minor issues, it's been a smooth experience

[linuxviolin]

Yes, I know all of this but I stay on my opinion. But if you are happy with Chakra, well, good for you.

[randomizer]

linuxviolin, i'm a big fan of chakra (sorry we have to disagree here ) their KDE implementation is unique, being gtk-free is an advantage if:

I don't get it. Build a GTK-free system only to add GTK applications anyway? What difference does that make from having the system libs installed? They don't take up that much space...

[zerozero]

randomizer: you don't add gtk to the system, you don't need to if you don't want.
the only gtk dep everybody needs (well we have other options, but it's not the same) it's flash, and the main browsers (ff, chrome, chromium) have flash bundled on it, so it's not in the system, it's contained in a kind of iso-like pkg; the same happens with same of the most popular apps: LO, Gimp
http://chakra-project.org/packages/inde ... x86_64*.cb

you have to look at chakra as a showcase, a prove that you can build a system only QT-based (and for the rest they implemented the bundles idea - very innovative) and it works;
of course if you want gtk, you can find it in the ccr (equivalent of aur)

[MALsPa]

The only "Fedora-vs-Mint" issue that matters to me is that Fedora doesn't offer LTS (Long Term Support) editions.

Yeah, Fedora's 12-13 month support cycle could be a big drawback for some people.

Well, this is not a "drawback". It's Fedora and Fedora is not for newbie. For Fedora it's a "feature" and a "necessity" probably...

Well, like I said, "for some people." I'm fine with it, but I can see why Robin wouldn't want to mess with it.

The "Why did (or would) you leave Fedora?" thread a the Fedora forums offers quite a bit of insight about Fedora, pro and con. It's a long thread, but it might be good reading for anyone who's considering Fedora:

http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=265526

[linuxviolin]

Well, like I said, "for some people." I'm fine with it, but I can see why Robin wouldn't want to mess with it.

I didn't say Robin and/or you were wrong but just it's not a "drawback" as such. It's their choice, way, politic or other as you want, like or prefer. When you use, or think using, Fedora you know, must know, this. Then you choose to install and use it or not. But it's not the only to make that. Look at Frugalware for instance. When the new release is out, i.e. every 6 months, they completely stop working and updating the previous release(s), so you are *forced* to upgrade every 6 months! At least with Fedora you have some time and even not really forced to upgrade to every release...

[randomizer]

so it's not in the system, it's contained in a kind of iso-like pkg; the same happens with same of the most popular apps: LO, Gimp

But that's the point, you're still using GTK applications, so it's not really a purely Qt-based environment. The only difference is that the GTK libraries aren't installed system-wide. If you want to run a pure Qt system, you need to dump LO, FF and GIMP.

[KBD47]

Tried Fedora 15 and hated it, lousy interface, crashed at least 3 times on me. Mint on the same computer, perfect. If you really want to try a Fedora based distro that is nice: Fuduntu. It seemed stable and user friendly, but still not as nice as Mint IMO.

[linuxviolin]

If you want to run a pure Qt system

But who would want this? Everybody or almost uses apps from anywhere, GNOME, KDE... in any desktop. They install and use the apps they like, they need, are the best for them etc And this is good, right? Just maybe if you have some "old" computer and with low-RAM you can concerned with don't mix the desktops. But this is just a quite little part of people, a minority, I guess.

[zerozero]

randomizer, we are going way off-topic here but at least i don't see a problem with it

- in a way those libs are not in the system, that's the "mystery" of the bundles, they are not installed;
- right now, there's only 2 gtk deps you can't avoid: flash and nvidia-settings (they managed to pkg LO stripped of all gtk); flash as is bundled in the browsers, is contained and maybe one day we can dump it (ok this is already dreaming ) and as for nvidia-settings i saw a beta written in QT, but Phil Miller hasn't update it lately

[MALsPa]

Well, like I said, "for some people." I'm fine with it, but I can see why Robin wouldn't want to mess with it.

I didn't say Robin and/or you were wrong but just it's not a "drawback" as such. It's their choice, way, politic or other as you want, like or prefer. When you use, or think using, Fedora you know, must know, this. Then you choose to install and use it or not. But it's not the only to make that. Look at Frugalware for instance. When the new release is out, i.e. every 6 months, they completely stop working and updating the previous release(s), so you are *forced* to upgrade every 6 months! At least with Fedora you have some time and even not really forced to upgrade to every release...

Wow, linuxviolin. As I said, it "could be a big drawback for some people." Obviously, Fedora's support cycle would be a reason some people would choose not to use the distro. Don't get too hung up on that word ("drawback"); read it within the context of the entire sentence.