Linux Mint 12, and beyond?

[zerozero]

this one, linuxviolin

[linuxviolin]

this one, linuxviolin

Yes, absolutely.

[tdockery97]

Exactly why I switched to KDE. A nice long, calm period with no major redesigns of the DE.

[ThistleWeb]

Exactly why I switched to KDE. A nice long, calm period with no major redesigns of the DE.

ROFL

[craig10x]

tdockery97...KDE is what i might end up on (though in my case it would have to be the Kubuntu version since i don't use debian on mint)....
that is...unless Clem can "perform a miracle" with Mint 12 main edition

[craig10x]

By the way...i was just doing a bit of research on gnome 3 "fallback mode" and it appears it is a lot more configurable then you might think...check out this link to just one (of many videos) about it...seems to me from what i am seeing, using fallback with gnome tweaks, i'd imagine then Clem shouldn't have much problem at all re-creating the traditional "mint" desktop" (one panel on bottom with mint menu) that he has always had!....I don't feel quite so pessimistic about this anymore...

and yes...top panel can be moved to the bottom as well! (though he doesn't show that in video but i see the top/bottom "orientation tab" is in the panel preferences

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyd5kiGPmbE

[KBD47]

Thankfully we have plenty of choices and are not stuck with a desktop we can't stand. On the positive side I do like: KDE, XFCE, LXDE, Gnome 2, and I can tolerate Unity. Actually the only one I absolutely can't stand is Gnome 3.
KBD47

[xenopeek]

If it comes to it, we can always go back to just booting into the console There is still a vibrant offering of console web browsers, RSS readers, chat clients, music players, and what not.

Or, speaking for myself, change is good and keeps your brain young, so just go with something else for a while if you fear the GNOME

[ElderSnake]

By the way...i was just doing a bit of research on gnome 3 "fallback mode" and it appears it is a lot more configurable then you might think...check out this link to just one (of many videos) about it...seems to me from what i am seeing, using fallback with gnome tweaks, i'd imagine then Clem shouldn't have much problem at all re-creating the traditional "mint" desktop" (one panel on bottom with mint menu) that he has always had!....I don't feel quite so pessimistic about this anymore...

and yes...top panel can be moved to the bottom as well! (though he doesn't show that in video but i see the top/bottom "orientation tab" is in the panel preferences

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cyd5kiGPmbE

Haha, that's my video

Sorry I forgot to show the top/bottom orientation but hopefully everyone can see there's a bit to work with. It needs a fair bit of work but I think the fallback mode could be made to be very usable and satisfactory to the Gnome 2/Mint experience. I do wish the panels weren't so large and blocky but I'm sure that can edited in the code somewhere. I have faith in the Mint guys

[craig10x]

Hi Eldersnake!
I'm so glad you had posted that video on you tube (it's very good by the way)...so i can show the "doubting thomases" here that it can be done fairly easily which also should mean that Clem shouldn't have too much of a problem having both the gnome 3 base without unity or shell and the traditional (and great) classic MINT desktop

And yes indeed, regarding putting the panel on the bottom, that is easy also...and in fact i saw a picture of someone's desktop where he used the fallback mode and he did exactly that...

[linuxviolin]

I don't buy the "fallback" mode, sorry. And it is not done for lasting, at one time it will be probably removed... So It's not something to take as basis for the future, not in time.

[ElderSnake]

Hi Eldersnake!
I'm so glad you had posted that video on you tube (it's very good by the way)...so i can show the "doubting thomases" here that it can be done fairly easily which also should mean that Clem shouldn't have too much of a problem having both the gnome 3 base without unity or shell and the traditional (and great) classic MINT desktop

And yes indeed, regarding putting the panel on the bottom, that is easy also...and in fact i saw a picture of someone's desktop where he used the fallback mode and he did exactly that...

Thanks craig10x

I don't suppose there are any screenshots of clem's progress so far or anything somewhere? I'd be very interested to know how things are fairing with Gnome 3 in Mint. I'm sure with the right customizations (both code and the panel's built in features) fallback mode could be utilized very well (Or I'm hoping anyway).

There aren't so many applets... but until the old applets are ported to Gnome 3 it will remain that way. Still, the same old very basic panel applets are there.

[craig10x]

ElderSnake...linuxviolin is our "resident pessimist"

Actually, it is the Gnome 3 development team that put the fallback mode in there..and it IS supposed to be a permanent option...which they will in fact, improve upon but looks like it is working pretty good even right now...

Clem is currently working on "finalizing" the LMDE re-spin iso which will be released in the next week or two... and he will start working On MInt 12 (ubuntu based version) as soon as the Ubuntu 11.10 is released in mid October...generally he releases the final version of the new Mint roughly 30 days after the Ubuntu release...So, that's when he will be exploring the options...perhaps even before that

Also, there are other ubuntu based distros, like Zorin, which i am sure will be working on the "fallback mode" also...their layout wouldn't work with unity or gnome shell either...of course (since it has 1 panel on bottom and windows 7 style menu (actually the good ol' gnomenu set to that particular look)...

[ElderSnake]

Ahhh, cheers for the info

I haven't used Mint all that much compared to other distros so I'm not terribly familiar with how things work with Mint(regarding development) but I do really like the distro, so I keep an eye on every release and I am VERY interested to see what they do with the Fallback mode, should they use it.

[craig10x]

Anytime ElderSnake...glad to be of help...and anyway, your video gave me "hope"
I really don't want to have to be forced to go kde as i am really a gnome person "at heart" so i sure hope Clem can put the mint desktop customization to the "gnome 3 fallback mode" for Mint 12...That way, mint can move on into gnome 3 (like it ultimately must) but still retain it's minty goodness

[tdockery97]

I just completed an experiment installing and setting up Gnome 3 on Mint 11. It was interesting, but now I have fallen in love with KDE, so I'll stick with my LMDE KDE. I personally feel it is much more intuitive and easy to use than Gnome 3.

[fk2blow]

Hey guys, first time mint user here - been using ubuntu since 8.04 not actually going back .

The first thing that came to my mind(actually the first post is similar) was the two panels thing. Why should a user that has already a limitid space(with the "new" trend for laptops having the 1366x768 resolution the fun is doubled) should bare the bottom or the top panel when he actually need is more workspace?!?! The solution is simple - simply remove a panel(in my case the botttom one) and put all the active windows on the top one.

The second thing that truly annoys me is the applets. In windows there are some things that are made just right(yes, they are) and the fact that some linux users(developers, designers, w/e) are being so desperate and masochistic about those comparisons made me come back to windows a couple of times(i read a post one time when an "old skool" linux dev didn't want to develope/create a feature just because windows already had it - very very wrong i thought). I just want the minimum ability to customize WHAT SHOULD BE DISPLAYED in the panel - it seems i cannot to that atm(or i haven't searched enough?!?!)

The third thing is gnome 3 and ATI(yes, ATI makes me wanna sell my 1 yr laptop in order to get another one with nVidia). They released it, everyone goes mad about it, etc. but NOONE tests it on a ATI card?!?!?! confused?! There are tons and tons of forum posts one every major distribution trying to solve this compatibility thing - theres not even one good solution for all those problems(panel flickering, rainbow colors, gpu overheating, etc)


The conclusion is this:
- stick to debian or maintain mint(i must admit that i don't fully understand how these things are going but... i really like mint 11 - the stability, default packages, etc)
- DON'T be masochistic - not everyone wants to spend 3 hours to install a f***ing ATI driver(just for the sake of the example - i have more important things to do, really)
- make mint even cleaner.

ps - not a native En speaker here so don't throw rocks at me
ps2 - i really really love linux and mint - the points mentioned above are some of my frustrations from the last few years swith ubuntu

Regards,
Dragos

[craig10x]

Dragos...for the kind of stability that Mint main edition has, i think Clem will HAVE to stay with the ubuntu based version...debian testing i believe will never give the same stability, reliability and polish, that it has...

Sure, he could put it on debian stable, but it would have older packages and wouldn't be rolling anyway and would required a new install every 2 years anyway...
One could just use a long term version of ubuntu based mint for that (like Mint 13 will be, the next ubuntu long term release)...

Clem will continue to do his best with LMDE but somehow i just don't see it ever getting to the point where it is 100% on par with Mint Main Edition...
I guess i am starting to sound like linuxviolin now

[linuxviolin]

ElderSnake...linuxviolin is our "resident pessimist"

Actually, it is the Gnome 3 development team that put the fallback mode in there..and it IS supposed to be a permanent option

No, but if you say so... I'll try to find again the link to the page where I had read this. Unfortunately, I had not kept it and now I know no more where it was but if I ever find it again I'll post it. That said, of course The GNOME Team can change its mind and choose now or later to keep this mode, (e.g. under pressure of users, if they ever listen them , or distros, although...) even if their first intention was, after a moment for the transition, to remove it in future releases... So, we'll see.

The first thing that came to my mind(actually the first post is similar) was the two panels thing. Why should a user that has already a limitid space(with the "new" trend for laptops having the 1366x768 resolution the fun is doubled) should bare the bottom or the top panel when he actually need is more workspace?!?! The solution is simple - simply remove a panel(in my case the botttom one) and put all the active windows on the top one.

I don't completely agree with that, as I already said. For me, the default GNOME 2 setup with two panels is the better setup BUT as you said and here I can agree, with the stupid ""new" trend" for screens two panels may not be optimal, unfortunately. Personally, with my Full HD 1920x1080 screen, I have no problem with two thin panels.

i think Clem will HAVE to stay with the ubuntu based version...

Probably, or go to another (better?) base maybe...

[ElderSnake]

I'd personally love to see Mint go with Debian base full time, they could concentrate their efforts more fully and Debian, obviously, is a damn fine base Distro

But, they'll just need to port over some of the particularly useful user friendly tools, like jockey-GTK (the Additional Drivers program) and such. I've got nothing against the Ubuntu base of course.