LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Discuss non-support related topics related to LMDE.
Forum rules
Before you post please read this

LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby widget on Mon Oct 10, 2011 3:06 am

I made the time tonight, being excited about LMDE, to actually take time to fire up the Live Session and attempt to install it.

Can't be done.

Oh the Live Session is great. Every thing works great, looks pretty good too.

My test platform is set up with 2 HDDs in an external enclosure. One is bootable an the other not. Actually they both are if set up in a raid configuration but I will not do that, tried it, won't have a thing to do with it. Therefore / goes on one, along with a storage partition for some files I use with all install and /home goes on the other.

This installer, unless I was just too groggy to see it, is incapable of handling that. It also appears to give no option for mount points other than / and /home.

I am truly bummed over this. I was really looking forward to playing with this OS a lot. What I played with on the Live Session actually had me fooling around for a longer time than I had allocated for the entire session including install. It was just too much FUN to stop. Then the lame installer has to be aborted as it will not do the job that can be done with every other installer I have used excepting the one for MS and they may be able to do it by now.

My real hope here is to have some one really jump my case and point out my lack of reading or observational skills while pointing out my total misunderstanding of the functionality of this installer.

I am whipped, certainly possible that I am even dumber than usual. I sure hope so.
Dell XPS 420 Core2 Quad Q 6600, audigy5.1, Radeon HD 6450 - currently 4 320Gb HDD, Debian Squeeze for secure use, Debian testing for daily use, Debian Sid for fun.
widget
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 2:49 am
Location: S.E. Montana

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby terdon on Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:17 am

Hi,
here I am pointing out your "lack of reading or observational skills" while pointing out your "total misunderstanding of the functionality of this installer" :)

I am afraid I don't remember the details but there is either an advanced tab, or you right click and select edit or preferences or something like that. I have installed lmde on several machines now, all of which have multiple and different hdd setups. There is no reason you should not be able to set up your system as you like. Have another go and look around, you should be able to find the options.

You can type mount points in even if they are not there as options. I have my windows partition mounted at /winblows for example. Definitely not one of the prepackaged mount points.
Last edited by terdon on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
terdon
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:52 pm
Location: Marseille

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby DrakeMint on Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:37 pm

Hi All,

i'm relative new to LMDE, works great for me, did some tweaking en all works as i wan't.
But, probably due to lack of knowledge, i ran into the same problem with the installer.
Taking the way terdon pointed to, i allready tried that approach, but without any succes for that matter.
When i make a separate partition, which hasn't a default choice by the installer and then chosen by hand,
lets say for "/usr" or any other for that matter, the instalation goes straight on, but at some point it freezes.

So, what is it i'doing false? To make it clear upfront, the size of any partition i made is 5GB, so this can't
be the problem, i guess.

Thx for any help.
DrakeMint
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:21 pm

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby widget on Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:29 pm

terdon wrote:Hi,
here I am pointing out your "lack of reading or observational skills" while pointing out your "total misunderstanding of the functionality of this installer" :)

I am afraid I don't remember the details but there is either an advanced tab, or you right click and select edit or preferences or something like that. I have installed lmde on several machines now, all of which have multiple and different hdd setups. There is no reason you should not be able to set up your system as you like. Have another go and look around, you should be able to find the options.

You can type mount points in even if they are not there as options. I have my windows partition mounted at /winblows for example. Definately not one of the prepackaged mount points.

Well, I will certainly have another look at it. I would really like to take it for a test run.

There are a number of things I have heard about Mint in general an LMDE in particular that just really interest me.

One is that it is supposed to be noob friendly. I am pretty much stuck with PCLOS to recommend to them anymore and would really like something in the Debian branch of Linux as I really do not like dealing with RPMs and the associated package managers.

I think it is in my DVD Rom still (been busy) and I have to get over on that external anyway tonight so I will ignore the Live Session this time and concentrate on the installer.
Dell XPS 420 Core2 Quad Q 6600, audigy5.1, Radeon HD 6450 - currently 4 320Gb HDD, Debian Squeeze for secure use, Debian testing for daily use, Debian Sid for fun.
widget
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 2:49 am
Location: S.E. Montana

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby proxima_centauri on Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:05 pm

widget wrote:There are a number of things I have heard about Mint in general an LMDE in particular that just really interest me. One is that it is supposed to be noob friendly.


I suggest you read the release announcemnt

Cons:
  • Although it’s using Romeo for unstable packages, LMDE continuously changes as it receives updates and new software. Compared to a frozen version of Linux Mint which changes very little once it’s publicly released, it’s not as stable. Things are likely to break more often but fixes can also come quicker. For this reason, LMDE requires a deeper knowledge and experience with Linux, dpkg and APT.
  • Debian is a less user-friendly/desktop-ready base than Ubuntu. Expect some rough edges.
User avatar
proxima_centauri
Level 11
Level 11
 
Posts: 3976
Joined: Tue Dec 25, 2007 3:24 pm
Location: NB, Canada

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby widget on Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:25 pm

terdon wrote:Hi,
here I am pointing out your "lack of reading or observational skills" while pointing out your "total misunderstanding of the functionality of this installer" :)

I am afraid I don't remember the details but there is either an advanced tab, or you right click and select edit or preferences or something like that. I have installed lmde on several machines now, all of which have multiple and different hdd setups. There is no reason you should not be able to set up your system as you like. Have another go and look around, you should be able to find the options.

You can type mount points in even if they are not there as options. I have my windows partition mounted at /winblows for example. Definately not one of the prepackaged mount points.

There is no way I can see to install on more than one drive.

On 4 320Gb drives, I can allot all of 12Gb to LMDE if I use 2 drives. All other space is used or planned to be used.
Dell XPS 420 Core2 Quad Q 6600, audigy5.1, Radeon HD 6450 - currently 4 320Gb HDD, Debian Squeeze for secure use, Debian testing for daily use, Debian Sid for fun.
widget
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 2:49 am
Location: S.E. Montana

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby terdon on Tue Oct 18, 2011 7:53 am

Right, now I feel like a proper idiot. I just spent a fair amount of time setting up a step by step tutorial with images and everything based on an install on my laptop. My laptop which has one disk. So, I cheerfully added things like "I only have one disk but this is where the other would appear blah blah" to my tutorial. It then occurred to me to check, so I set up VirtualBox with two drives and guess what? There seems to be no way of setting mount points for partitions in 2 different physical drives during the installation process. That is silly. I have installed various versions of various Linuxes over the years and have never seen this before.

I hadn't noticed because on my desktop box, where I have many disks, I actually have / and /home on the same physical disk. I then set up other mount points manually after the install process. So, it would appear that the OP was quite right and my self satisfied first post was completely off :oops:

In any case, you can still get the setup you want. Just chose one of the disks for / and let the installation finish. Then you login, mount the other disk somewhere and copy your $HOME directory to the other disk. You then delete your actual $HOME directory and edit /etc/fstab to set the other drive to be mounted at /home (let me know if you need help with that). Then logout and log back in and everything should be properly set up.

So, you can still do it but not during the install process. Weird...
Last edited by terdon on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
terdon
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:52 pm
Location: Marseille

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby Arran on Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:17 am

widget wrote:There are a number of things I have heard about ...


That's the way to learn lying. When I «hear» things about something, I try it out and make my own opinion. (That is why I am now testing LMDE.) And more than not the rumours are dissolved in air. Having been set up by mischieving idiots and spread further by thoughtless people.
Best greetings from Scotlands nicest Holiday Isle
Image
OS: Mint12 KDE, Graphic: Nvidia I4800-GS, Monitor: HP LP2065, «Broadband» Ø 50kib/sec!!!
User avatar
Arran
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 205
Joined: Sat Jul 30, 2011 4:24 am

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby DrakeMint on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:46 am

Well then, Arran?

The way you likely represent the Linux front, i asume you'll have the solution for the problem?
If not so, you could't at least have some credit towards newbies? People "do, asume" things,
on basis from what they "hear."
Mostly without any harmfull meaning, like me while i'm new to LMDE, that's at least my opinion.

If you've got the solution, i'd apreciate it! Thx upfront.
Last edited by DrakeMint on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
DrakeMint
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:21 pm

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby terdon on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:53 am

DrakeMint wrote:Well then, Arran?

The way you likely represent the Linux front, i asume you'll have the solution for the problem?
If not so, you could't at least have some credit towards newbies? People "do, asume" things.
Mostly without any harmfull meaning, like me while i'm new to LMDE, that's at least my opinion.

If you've got the solution, i'd apreciate it! Thx upfront.


In any case, what proxima said was right. Of all the distros I've tried Mint is by far the most user-friendly. This is not the case for LMDE. Personally, I prefer LMDE but then, I am no longer a newbie. So, for best newbie support go for the main edition of Mint.

And if we are to continue this discussion, lets open a new thread.
User avatar
terdon
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Tue Jan 13, 2009 2:52 pm
Location: Marseille

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby DrakeMint on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:57 am

And if we are to continue this discussion, lets open a new thread.


That would't be the best to it.
Like i said, i'm a newbie to, searched a litle, and found a similar discussion,.
Although related to Raid during install, it has the same problem.

http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=189&t=80627

Should't we start a new thread or coninue towards the other one?

thx.
DrakeMint
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 3
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:21 pm

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby widget on Tue Oct 18, 2011 11:00 pm

I do not have time to fool with post install changing the way the thing is installed. Too busy.

I could install on 2 partitions on the HDD I use for root and then cut/paste the /home partition to the other HDD. This takes time.

I am not a noob either. I use Debian testing as my every day OS, Squeeze set up as a secure business OS and Sid for fun. I started having a Debian install on here in 08 an am pretty familiar with it. I was a noob then and as far as I could see then, and now, the only real advantage Ubuntu had over Debian for being user friendly was the repo system and font rendering.

The font rendering is pretty much a non issue any more and the Debian repo system is better than it was in the Lenny era.

LMDE interests me because I have heard that there is a different auto upgrade system. I am not a fan of auto upgrade systems but many folks are. Why noobs, who have probably had their MS install screwed by auto updates would want one is beyond me but they seem to. So that is my first and main interest.

There are a number of things, obviously borrowed from Ubuntu and modified for LMDE, that may well be great. I do not know.

I do know that the building of an installer based on Ubuntu tools does not seem to be that great a deal for a Debian based OS. Of course the Ubuntu installer is rapidly going down hill anyway.

How come there is no "Alt install" disk for LMDE? That should be fairly easy to have, Nice text based installer based on the Debian installer like Ubuntu uses. It may not be particularly user friendly but I had no trouble using it to install Lenny 3 whole weeks after my first experience with Linux.

It does allow you to install on as many drives as you want, well limited to the number of mount points available in the installer (not sure of the number but it is more than 7 - just picturing it in my mind - jump me if I am wrong). If you have the drive you could use one for each mount point. Not just sure why you would want to but you could. I can certainly see why someone would want to have a /boot partition on the main drive even if no other partition would be there. Easiest way to make sure you have no boot problems with different OS' on different drives.

This is a major concern of noobs. Many want to try Linux out and want it on a different drive than their main OS. While this should be no problem usually there are some funny bios out there and some strange mixes of drives that make the boot process a pain to diagnose and get corrected.

Setting a /boot (make it huge like 1Gb) on the main drive fixes it pretty easily.

But it has to be done with a gui tool so that noobs don't get run off by having to do things like editing the fstab. Copying sections of you / to /boot is going to break a lot of paths. Look at how much you have to be careful with just trying to go from a / only set up to a / and /home setup. Permissions are all screwed up, something that no noob wants to deal with.

The installer NEEDS to be able to do this for them. After a few months or a year they may look back and laugh at there timidity in trying more complex solutions. But only if they get the thing installed and working with their other OS easily, or relatively easily.

This installer will not do that. That bothers me because that is the first thing that anyone using any OS (that they install themselves) runs into. The installer is the first impression. Not eye candy, not splash screens, not even slide shows during the installation. It is the installer itself and how it works that is important to any OS trying to be user friendly.
Dell XPS 420 Core2 Quad Q 6600, audigy5.1, Radeon HD 6450 - currently 4 320Gb HDD, Debian Squeeze for secure use, Debian testing for daily use, Debian Sid for fun.
widget
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 2:49 am
Location: S.E. Montana

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby rhy7s on Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:58 am

widget wrote:...Therefore / goes on one, along with a storage partition for some files I use with all install and /home goes on the other.

This installer, unless I was just too groggy to see it, is incapable of handling that...

I haven't done an install from the current spin, but on the previous one I installed LMDE to an Eee 901 using the first SSD as / and the second as /home so I also would have thought it was still possible.
rhy7s
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu May 20, 2010 10:04 pm

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby widget on Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:25 pm

rhy7s wrote:
widget wrote:...Therefore / goes on one, along with a storage partition for some files I use with all install and /home goes on the other.

This installer, unless I was just too groggy to see it, is incapable of handling that...

I haven't done an install from the current spin, but on the previous one I installed LMDE to an Eee 901 using the first SSD as / and the second as /home so I also would have thought it was still possible.

That is certainly good to hear, maybe this is just a short term problem.
Dell XPS 420 Core2 Quad Q 6600, audigy5.1, Radeon HD 6450 - currently 4 320Gb HDD, Debian Squeeze for secure use, Debian testing for daily use, Debian Sid for fun.
widget
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 2:49 am
Location: S.E. Montana

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby mikebravo on Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:38 pm

LMDE201109 Bitter Disapointment! I can add my voice to the chorus of complaints. I have an older desktop with two 80 gig hard drives. Planned to put / on one and /home on the other. No way from the installer. Would have been equally happy to do raid 0 or 1. (Ubuntu in raid 0 was pretty snappy but did not survive an update) This is bloody unbelieveable. I am afraid that LMDE is going to be the red headed stepchild of Mint.
EDIT12-21-2011 I hear PearOS Linux is going to do a Debian edition 'one of these days'. Might be worth a look if it happens.
Last edited by mikebravo on Wed Dec 21, 2011 10:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
mikebravo
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 12
Joined: Sat May 28, 2011 10:07 pm

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby widget on Sat Dec 17, 2011 3:12 pm

mikebravo wrote:LMDE201109 Bitter Disapointment! I can add my voice to the chorus of complaints. I have an older desktop with two 80 gig hard drives. Planned to put / on one and /home on the other. No way from the installer. Would have been equally happy to do raid 0 or 1. (Ubuntu in raid 0 was pretty snappy but could not survive an update) No way from the installer. This is bloody unbelieveable. I am afraid that LMDE is going to be the red headed stepchild of Mint.

I find this pretty strange. I ran Ubuntu for years and its installer, which seems to be getting worse all the time, has always allowed for multi drive installation. Also, from Ubuntu days, quite familiar with the Debian installer used on their alt install disk which has no trouble with multi drive installation.

Use Debian now and have a lot of installs on various drives, some installed all on one drive some on two. Certainly no harder to install on 2 than on 1.

I did, by the way, install LMDE. All on one drive. Looks like a lot of work has been done on it. I can see how it would appeal to a lot of folks. Can't say it does to me though. Too restrictive.

It would, however, have more appeal if folks could actually install it as they would like.
Dell XPS 420 Core2 Quad Q 6600, audigy5.1, Radeon HD 6450 - currently 4 320Gb HDD, Debian Squeeze for secure use, Debian testing for daily use, Debian Sid for fun.
widget
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 2:49 am
Location: S.E. Montana

Re: LMDE installer just not up to it at all.

Postby widget on Fri May 11, 2012 8:23 pm

Well I am pretty bummed about this but I think that LMDE is coming off my box soon. I have a couple more things to test out on my 64 bit install before that happens though.

I really think this would be the perfect distro for a noob from what I have seen on my 64 bit install so far.

Can't say I really like the package management system for myself. I have no trouble keeping Debian testing running just fine. This system, however seems about as idiot proof as any package management system could be. Just what a noob needs.

The installer, though, is a real disappointment. The lack of sensible features like installing on more than one drive or installing easily on more than 2 partitions I can live without.

I did install the new release 32 bit version though. This was entertaining. Was amazed that it actually booted and appeared to run fine.

User name was Manly Mint (man). Path to man's user directory in a 2 partition install from a md5sum correct image and disk quality checked DVD was;
/var/cache/apt/man

Sorry, this will not do at all for a noob.

I am deeply bummed as I really wanted to recommend this to one person this weekend. Still do want to. Won't though. Really need an installer that you can depend on if recommended to noobs.

I will be downloading and trying this distro regularly. I am sure that this will eventually by straightened out. The rest of the thing is just too good to have this type of thing continue. When the installer is up to my minimum standards it will be back on here in a flash.
Dell XPS 420 Core2 Quad Q 6600, audigy5.1, Radeon HD 6450 - currently 4 320Gb HDD, Debian Squeeze for secure use, Debian testing for daily use, Debian Sid for fun.
widget
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 167
Joined: Thu May 14, 2009 2:49 am
Location: S.E. Montana

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 

Return to Open Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests