Why Mint 12 Will Rock The Linux World

[MALsPa]

Waoo guys... MALsPA, craig10x, I guess you just lost your mind...

By the way, i don't think either i or malspa have lost our minds...

Maybe not you, craig10x... but I've been trying to find my lost mind for years!

[craig10x]

malspa

By the way, there is a poster (named wolfen69) over at the ubuntu forums, and in the tag info he includes on his replies there is a link that says:
gnome2 preservation society and when you click on the link, this is what you get: http://www.jadedalt.com/wp-content/gallery/post-images/bang-head-here.jpg That is for linuxviolin...he he he
And also for "guy" who posts frequently to the mint 12 announcement blogs...

[MALsPa]

Yeah, I had a nice chuckle at wolfen69's sig!

[MALsPa]

Folks here will like this post by "assen" at the Fedora forums:

And I dare say, MATE rocks If you want to see the good ol' Gnome 2 reincarnated, then try Mint 12 with MATE session (install from DVD or download it after installing from CD).

Any volunteers to help build MATE for Fedora?

[wolverine_tech]

By the way, there is a poster (named wolfen69) over at the ubuntu forums, and in the tag info he includes on his replies there is a link that says:
gnome2 preservation society and when you click on the link, this is what you get: http://www.jadedalt.com/wp-content/gall ... d-here.jpg

Still laughing

While I'm probably agnostic* towards distros and desktop environment, that link cracked me up...

Also,

linuxviolin wrote:
Waoo guys... MALsPA, craig10x, I guess you just lost your mind...

If so, then I must be certified, bonafide, stark, raving mad 'coz I like GNOME 2, Shell, Unity, KDE, XFCE, even Openbox

*not sure how long I can stay agnostic, given how awesome Mint is turning out to be. LM 12's a keeper.

[linuxviolin]

I think everybody will have understood it was a little joke but however, I can never understand people who like such crap as GNOME 3 and Unity...

[MALsPa]

I think everybody will have understood it was a little joke but however, I can never understand people who like such crap as GNOME 3 and Unity...

Yes, I think it was understood that it was a joke.

As far as those things being "crap," well, one man's trash is another man's treasure, as the saying goes.

[wolverine_tech]

I understand (& I'm sure others too) that it was a joke. But your comment was spot on, 'coz I remember getting rid of Fedora 15 after about 10 minutes of struggling with the G-Shell interface. Ditto with Ubuntu 11.04.

Later I tried Ubuntu 11.10 (beta) & could stumble my way around & thought "Hmm ... wasn't G-Shell similar to Unity?" Tried G-Shell again on OpenSUSE & actually started to like it. That's when I told myself that I was probably losing my marbles

And to be frank, I cannot see the design philosophy behind G-Shell & Unity or how they apply on a desktop... (I'd be grateful if someone can convincingly explain the rationale behind the disappearing global menus and overlay scroll bars in Unity ) Having G-Shell & Unity tweaked with extensions to make it more usable seems like a step backwards.... Hopefully the devs know better & these interfaces might turn into awesome UIs like KDE did.

Fingers crossed...

Until then, we can keep banging our heads as directed: http://www.jadedalt.com/wp-content/gall ... d-here.jpg

[MALsPa]

And to be frank, I cannot see the design philosophy behind G-Shell & Unity or how they apply on a desktop... (I'd be grateful if someone can convincingly explain the rationale behind the disappearing glonal menus and overlay scroll bars in Unity )

I don't know if I'd want to try to "explain the rationale" or try to make you see the design philosophy. About the only thing I can say is that I've been using both GNOME Shell (in Fedora 16) and Unity (in 11.04) on the desktop here and I don't feel that I'm having any problems getting work done. "Workflow" is definitely not an issue, at least not here. I like what I'm seeing so far, and I don't think I'll miss GNOME 2 at all. I still have GNOME 2 installed here on a couple of distros and when I log into them it feels like taking a step backwards.

But I understand that not everyone is going to feel the same way that I do. I think GNOME 3 will continue to move forward and the devs will continue to improve it so that more and more people will like using it, but I don't think we'll ever reach a point where everyone likes GNOME 3.

Of course, not everyone liked GNOME 2, either.

[ilovelinux]

...

I also really quite like and enjoy Gnome 3, the main issue that is keeping me from using it is the AMD/ATI catalyst drivers...they are still lacking some compatibility with Gnome 3. I am hoping when 11.12 drivers come out, there will be a lot more compatibility with Gnome 3. AMD has made a lot of progress between 11.9 and 11.11, removing the rainbows and pretty much all of the graphical corruptions, but there are still some corruptions there (I was seeing corruption of various windows within LM12 such as Systems Settings).

Open source radeon drivers work flawlessly with Gnome 3 though, but it leaves me unable to watch HD videos or play games.

[wolverine_tech]

... I don't feel that I'm having any problems getting work done. "Workflow" is definitely not an issue, at least not here. I like what I'm seeing so far, and I don't think I'll miss GNOME 2 at all. I still have GNOME 2 installed here on a couple of distros and when I log into them it feels like taking a step backwards...

Totally agree, after using Unity & Gnome Shell for a while, workflow & 'getting work done' has not been a problem. And when I go back to my Debian Squeeze box, it does feel a little 'outdated' (wow, can't believe I really said that!)... That being said, some of Unity's design changes (left window buttons, disappearing global menus...) seem, at first, change for the sake of change. I'm sure the Unity devs have a long term plan where these things fit... would be nice if they discussed/shared that long-term vision with the users...

Well, right now Mint 12 just fills me with indescribable rapturous joy ... All is well

[MALsPa]

Sometimes I wonder if some of those "change for the sake of change" things are just attention-grabbers for Ubuntu. They do keep people talking!

For example, moving the window buttons to the left side generated so much controversy! But maybe it wasn't really such a big deal. Not only did it turn out to be easy to change, but I've noticed that I go back and forth between Ubuntu (with the buttons on the left) and other distros without any problem adjusting to where those buttons are.

I think Ubuntu has an interest in keeping their distro "different." Seems like that's how it's been all along. "Different" doesn't always mean "better," but I get the feeling they understand and accept that.

[harvi]

First time Ive seen Unity I said it is epic fail. Today is fail for me too because I didnt like it.
I dont know why, but I prefer more customization options, not just wallpaper change. Unity have still many bugs. Its a young desktop enviroment so we must be patient but it isnt the best one for me.

Gnome 3 is better solution for me, and I started to like it. I have no problem with Gnome 3 or 2. No problems with XFCE or LXDE. Everyone will pick up the solution which is best for him.

[wolverine_tech]

Quite possible. But Ubuntu is a major (the biggest?) player in the Linux arena. Perhaps Ubuntu is the best hope for making Linux go mainstream. Then why does it need futile attention grabbing gimmicks? I sincerely hope that Unity succeeds and Ubuntu makes a dent in the desktop market - for sake of Linux. Still, for all the flak Ubuntu has taken, I'm sure the 12.04 release will be stellar. (At least I hope for their sake that it is.)

While I am rambling on the topic, if Mark Shuttleworth or any Ubuntu devs / managers are reading this: What's with the awful names? Hardy Heron? Poll and accept the most user supported name... C'mon! Even I can come up with better names! Hungry Hippo, Harrumphing Horse... don't get me started

But I like Ubuntu nonetheless, even if it's not my distro of choice...

[ilovelinux]

...

Just because Ubuntu is the most widely used distro out there, doesn't make it a good choice to push Linux mainstream. I personally see Linux Mint pushing Linux mainstream, mainly due in part of the fact that the Mint team actually listens to it's user base.

And with the recent rapid decline of Ubuntu userbase, both novice and expert, and the rapid skyrocketing incline of Mint users...you can see where this is going.

[exploder]

In my opinion bugs are hurting Ubuntu more than Unity. Unity is not that bad and in some ways it is kinda cool. Unity looks pretty decent and the idea behind it is reasonable but it will not run on my hardware without freezing up. Unity works in Virtualbox fine and it's not half bad. I am all for Ubuntu doing their own thing but if they really want to be successful they need more focus on fixing the bugs.

[wolverine_tech]

[quote="ilovelinux"]

I agree. I meant Ubuntu (or any corporate Linux enterprise) is in a better position to take Linux to the next level, given the resources at their disposal (financial, infrastructural and developer base). But despite all that, they may squander the opportunity if they make such drastic decisions. Mint on the other hand, has the fundamentals right, and users are drawn to it without any ad campaigns or active efforts to actually seek out new users. Sign of a great product...

[wolverine_tech]

Yes. I've actually come to like Unity too. But those bugs never seem to get sorted out before the final release. Perhaps an OpenSUSE-like 8 month release cycle would be a better idea.

I've said this before: As a user, I highly respect a release-when-ready policy e.g., Mint / PCLinuxOS... wish PCLOS allowed discussions about other distros on their forum (which is awesome, BTW, if you haven't checked it out) ... brilliant ideas can come from these inter-distro discussions (if flame wars are nipped in the bud).

[KBD47]

I really like Ubuntu, mainly because of Lubuntu and Xubuntu, which I suspect have only been helped by the flak main Ubuntu has taken over Unity. For me Mint is simply the most user friendly Linux. I can install it fairly easily and quickly, tweak it a bit, maybe add 2 or 3 more applications, and it is ready to go. Main Ubuntu I have to remove those horrible overlay scroll bars, move the minimize/maximize/close buttons to the right side, and I'm still stuck with hidden menus and that awful dock glued to the left side of the screen. For me it is a no-brainer, especially for Linux newbies. I know some people Like Unity and that whole mess, and I'm glad they do for the sake of everything that depends upon Ubuntu. But I can't even see Unity being useful on either phones or tablets. I can imagine Gnome 3 on a tablet, but I suspect that Unity dock would be just as irritable to me on a tablet or phone.
KBD47

[wolverine_tech]

The global menus, overlay scrollbars and the Launcher on the left in Unity can be 'tamed' using these tips:

http://askubuntu.com/questions/29553/ho ... 2903#62903
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/03/disable- ... buntu.html
http://www.webupd8.org/2011/04/how-to-d ... rs-in.html

(BTW, http://www.webupd8.org has some awesome tips to tweak unity and G-shell).

Still, I completely understand why someone would chose Mint... after tweaking Debian for a while now, the tinkerer in me gets tired sometimes & that's when Mint comes to the rescue. That's where Mint 12 really shines... I can get work done with very little tweaking - and the tweaking itself takes < 5-10 minutes.

Clem & Mint's dev team really seem to 'get it'.