Mint 13 LTS ideas?

[w2ibc]

I wonder if this will be possible in the upcoming LTS.

having a separate gnome3 and mate versions

LM13 - Gnome
LM13 -Mate

that away those who wish to use mate only can grab that iso without having to deal with gnome3

[proxima_centauri]

Given that thusfar, the LTS is predicated on the Ubuntu repositories, I don't know if MATE will be a logical possibility for the LTS status.
EDIT: In case anyone reads this, my statement above is outdated and now incorrect.

[w2ibc]

it would be nice if it can be done. even if those who want mate have to wait a bit of extra time.

[eightup1]

Cinnamon is going to be our Saviour ... im using it now , it has a long way to go but I'm loving it

[sunewbie]

why is XFCE ignored?

Not against MATE / Gnome 3 with Gnome shell, but surely would like Mint LISA with gnome 3 and MATE released as dev / preview release, not suitable for new windows converts / end users. Invite users to install and give feedback, probably a new sub forum / or atleast a thread relaasing all issues in those releases. New users simply download the latest version available and they search for documentation when in emergency (typical end user approach).

It is good to adapt new technologies, but if you are focusing on end users and windows converts, then, i feel, even update packs / service packs (e.g. Ubuntu 10.04.1, 10.04.2, 10.04.3) of LTS versions should be updated with latest softwares and corporates and end users should be encouraged to use LTS.

The challenge is to convert / attract windows users and not frustrated windows users. People should use Linux as it is better than windows.

Distrowatch or any other online method like facebook like, twitter follows, +1s are far from accurate. I tried Ubuntu as my first Linux and after gnome3 and Unity saga, and their anti - slogans , I went to distro watch for the first time after 1 1/2 year (ya I am an end user) and checked some other distros first being mint. Downlaoded a few ISOs. Since most people install Ubuntu as first Linux Distros, they will never visit Ubuntu on distrowatch, except they come from google.

So not closely following online tools is my idea for Mint 13. popularity is different from actual users.

Best is registration / activation key, that gives devs accurate hardware and distro states. I hope people do not mind sending these stats when they are using it for free. Just like Clem did it when he pushed opera into repos before releasing Mint 12. or maybe he must be already collecting data, while issuing critical updates.

To sum up:

1) XFCE as default DE (can offer meta packs of pure gnome 3 / gnome 3 with cinnamon / MATE (tweaked for mint) with a script that only loads defauilts apps of DE being logged into, unless user specify an app to be available in all DE e.g. k3b should be avalable in all DE, but thunar should be available only if you log in to XFCE.

2) Release gnome 3 / gnome 3 with cinnamon / MATE as developer or preview release and later upgrade it to stable version. No need to follow self sweared / imposed rule to issue new version every 6 months.

3) Collect authentic data like hardware, software used and DE immediately after installation (Clem may be already doing it)

4) Keep track of stats from online resources like distrowatch, facebook, twitter, friendfeed, google +, etc, but not give too much importance to stats based on them.

Just my 2 cents.

[craig10x]

XFCE is much more basic then gnome and requires lots of tweaking to bring it up to the same level...it's really designed as a lighter weight de for older computers that are light on resources...For a newbie, Cinnamon DE as the default (which it will be in Mint 13) is the easiest to work with and doesn't really require "tweaking" to use out of the box...and it is also very attractive looking...which certainly should attract converts to linux and mint...

[sunewbie]

XFCE is much more basic then gnome and requires lots of tweaking to bring it up to the same level...it's really designed as a lighter weight de for older computers that are light on resources...For a newbie, Cinnamon DE as the default (which it will be in Mint 13) is the easiest to work with and doesn't really require "tweaking" to use out of the box...and it is also very attractive looking...which certainly should attract converts to linux and mint...

Hi craig10x,

I have not used cinnamon, but even though it is good, is gnome 3 stable and ready for use, if yes, then it is the obvious choice.

I do not explore much and do not want to go under-the-hood. I tried LIVE DVDs of both LMDE gnome and XFCE (installed XFCE in virtualbox) and could not make out the difference between them. Maybe Clem must have done all that tweaking that you are saying.

I am aware that XFCE is less feature rich, but if Clem can tweak XFCE for us, then it stands a good chance. It is definitely. The way things are moving today, it looks like it should be gnome3 + cinnamon as obvious choice, but I think an XFCE version should be a good option.

I personally do not tweak system too much, just change wallpapers and use home PC for lighter work like surfing net, listening music, burning DVDs (not too frequent), creating docs, etc.

Some basic things like creating desktop shortcuts (launchers), and change wallpaper all through simple GUI can be done easily in XFCE. I am not an advanced user so cannot comment more.

I remember Clem pushed XFCE in LMDE as full-fledged system which has similar apps like libreoffice that are found in gnome.

[craig10x]

good points...sunewbie...yes that is true Clem (or whoever specifically worked on it) always did do a lot of tweaks and adding stuff to XFCE on mint...
as far as Gnome 3 itself...at this point it is pretty stable and getting better all the time...i suspect that by the time ubuntu 12/04 (followed by Mint 13) comes out...it should be pretty solid by that point...and it does bring to the table many technological advantages...so ultimately, Cinnamon as the main mint desktop should be quite nice, especially once it has all the features, themes and easy configuring in it

even though it doesn't have it all yet...it is so nice and comfortable to work with (not to mention very stable) that i am already using it as my main session on Mint 12...in fact, since i started using it, i haven't logged into any of the other sessions available to me on it...

[Hawkeye_52]

Let me try to make the choices even more complicated. Probably my greatest skill .

First, Linux Mint has developed into a sophisticated distribution with two district personalities; the first is based upon Ubuntu, the second is based upon Debian. The issue of LTS is only applicable to the Ubuntu 'side of the house', since LMDE is a rolling release. I will probably get hammered on this one, but I believe that LMDE is as much a work in progress as Gnome 3; IMHO, it just isn't as user friendly as the Ubuntu-based offerings.

Focusing on the Ubuntu-based offerings, as I mentioned in another thread in this section of the forum, I believe Linux Mint 13 would benefit from having separate 'spins', dedicated to a specific desktop environment. In line with this thinking, there should be:

1> Linux Mint Gnome 3 Shell
2> Linux Mint Cinnamon
3> Linux Mint MATE

Each of these should be offered as a separate download, and be tailored for the applications and libraries that enhance their unique spin. I know this will make more administrative effort for Clem and the Linux Mint devs, but I believe it is the right way to go.

If I haven't stirred up enough controversy so far, I also believe that Linux Mint abandoned the Ubuntu-based XFCE when it shouldn't have. A Linux Mint XFCE that is Ubuntu-based would blow away any other XFCE distribution that users are looking at as a safe harbour from the loss of Gnome 2. Plus, LMDE XFCE just does not have enough 'bells and whistles' to attract the average, non-technical, user who just wants a good computing experience. Therefore, in addition to the 3 spins above, I would add:

Linux Mint XFCE (Ubuntu-based)

Flack jacket on -- ready for criticism (gently please ).

Hawkeye

[sunewbie]

@Hawkeye you have hit the bulls eye

No you are not making things complicated.

LMDE is not for end users (as on today IMO)

XFCE should not have been abandoned. Many users including one of OMG Ubuntu author has downloaded Ubuntu 11.10 and installed XFCE.

If there was a poll, then things would be more interesting.

[Hawkeye_52]

@Hawkeye you have hit the bulls eye

No you are not making things complicated.

LMDE is not for end users (as on today IMO)

XFCE should not have been abandoned. Many users including one of OMG Ubuntu author has downloaded Ubuntu 11.10 and installed XFCE.

If there was a poll, then things would be more interesting.

Sunewbie,

Thanks for the feedback. It's nice to know that at least one other person is on the same wavelength as me.

Now if only Clem was looking over our shoulder(s) ...

Hawkeye

[sunewbie]

Now if only Clem was looking over our shoulder(s) ...

Hawkeye

Maybe if someone posted a poll on XFCE section, and it gets good response, then Clem may have a look at it

[kijin]

1> Linux Mint Gnome 3 Shell
2> Linux Mint Cinnamon
3> Linux Mint MATE

I don't think Gnome Shell and Cinnamon need to be a separate spin. They share an enormous amount of apps and common libraries, namely the entirety of GNOME 3 modulo the shell. If Cinnamon becomes the default, anyone who wants Gnome Shell can just "apt-get install gnome-shell". It will be a relatively small download.

MATE, on the other hand, might not quite belong on the default install, depending on whether it can meet the requirements of LTS. I've always had a bad feeling about MATE. With all due respect to the maintainers, MATE seems to be destined to a long twilight that will be increasingly difficult to maintain.

Meanwhile, I'm glad to find that other people are seriously considering XFCE. If I had to choose between MATE and XFCE, I'd choose XFCE. XFCE has come a long way since a couple of years ago (just try Xubuntu 11.10 if curious), and its conservative philosophy might be even more suitable than MATE for those who are looking for a traditional desktop with long-term support. I run a heavily tweaked Xubuntu 11.10 with Compiz on one of my virtual boxes, and most of the time it's indistinguishable from GNOME 2. In fact, some parts feel even more configurable than GNOME 2 ever was, thanks to XFCE's emphasis on making everything configurable via the GUI. XFCE may be based on a slightly older technology, but its philosophy might end up being more compatible with what many users have come to expect from Mint. All the technical and visual gimmicks in the world can't save a DE if the underlying philosophy conflicts with users' expectations about how a computer should behave. Oh, and Linus Torvalds uses XFCE.

However, since most GNOME apps will be transitioning to GTK+ 3.x and XFCE is still stuck with GTK+ 2.x, incompatibilities could arise in the coming years. In Xubuntu 11.10, some GNOME apps are already beginning to ignore XFCE theme settings. the Xubuntu team had to port their default theme to GTK+ 3.x in order to ensure visual consistency. I really hope that the XFCE team manages the transition gracefully without succumbing to the temptation to rewrite everything, as both GNOME 3 and KDE 4 did.

[sunewbie]

@kijin

While i agree with you that MATE should be offered as a separate spin. It's too early to have a separate spin.

Regarding XFCE, If my memory is not failing me, than devs are not keen to immediately port to Gtk3. They will begin at the end of this year.

I hope that they will move with time and XFCE desktop will live long (and remain popular too). It has a dedicated user base and is also good for end users how do not tweak much.

i have created vote in XFCE section

viewtopic.php?f=110&t=91262

Since there are some users who are dedicated to community and do not log in often, I have also posted it in community

http://community.linuxmint.com/idea/view/2227

[KBD47]

I've actually been playing around with Ubuntu 10.4 LTS recently and what I want to see is the next LTS of whatever stripe be as rock solid as Ubuntu 10.4 and Mint 9. It is a bit scary to me that 10.4 LTS is easier and more configurable than many desktops that have come out in the last 6 months. I say stick to the KISS principle for the LTS releases. I would like to see MATE in Mint 13 be at least as stable and reliable as Gnome was in 10.4 and I'd like to see Cinnamon at least with the ability to configure as much and as easy as 10.4
Man it feel like I'm looking back to the good old days just hoping the new versions will be as good and with little hope that they will be better. Something wrong with that picture.
KBD47

[bdantas]

I wonder if this will be possible in the upcoming LTS.

having a separate gnome3 and mate versions

LM13 - Gnome
LM13 -Mate

that away those who wish to use mate only can grab that iso without having to deal with gnome3

+1
I'd love to use MATE exclusively on Mint 13 LTS and not sully my machine with anything related to Gnome3.

[craig10x]

I'd like to have cinnamon exclusively on my mint 13 LTS and not sully my machine with mate

[bdantas]

Touché! "Different strokes for different folks"

[sunewbie]

Well, I made a poll and forgot to post a link here. Some of you may already have visited the thread.

viewtopic.php?f=110&t=91262&start=40

[w2ibc]

well when I made this thread cinnamon wasnt around yet (I dont think)

over the past 2 weeks I played with xubuntu 11.10 (XFCE ubuntu for those who dont know) XFCE is very nice. but as someone said it would take some work to get it up to a gnome 2. which could be done.

I finally got LM12 to install on this tower. here are my thoughts on 12.

gnome3 itself sucks. i hate it.
cinnamon is totally workable (at least for me) only a couple things annoy me. but I can use it.
i havent played with mate yet...

come LM13 I think 1st should be LM13-gnome which uses cinnamon as default. then maybe a LM-13-mate LM-13-XFCE ect ect.

since 13 will be LTS might as well make a spin for each DE