No updates?

[Arran]

I can not understand why the developpers are concentrating on a retrograded Ubuntu base instead of a forward aiming Debian base without Ubuntu, aka LMDE. And furthermost with KDE, Cinnamon and XFCE.

[gosa]

Does it mean that the dev's had no time to prepare the UP4 and that they only start to work on it from now ?

How can you start working on something you don't have at your disposal?

As far as I understand it Gnome 3.2 just entered Debian testing (it's even mentioned in this thread) and since Gnome 3.2 is essential for Cinnamon to work, and with Cinnamon being one of the things that the devs want to include there's not really much more to do than to wait.

Maybe the more experienced users here can jump in and correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't the whole philosophy with these packs that each component in them should work with the rest of the updates without too many problems? That everything that gets pushed down to "Latest" is tested as much as possible?

If so - how can that be done if not all components are available? (In this case Gnome 3.2)

[hopimet]

How can you start working on something you don't have at your disposal?

As far as I understand it Gnome 3.2 just entered Debian testing...

Yes, Gnome 3.2 has just entered Debian testing, but it was already available in Mint 12, and Cinnamon too. So, I think it was possible to start working on it.

As Arran suggested, dev's could have spent time to prepare the LMDE UP4s instead of integrating KDE in Mint 12 as the LTS Mint 13 will be published in 3 to 4 months. At least the security updates for LMDE XFCE could have been released.

Some informations or clarifications about the development policy of LMDE would be welcome.

[Arran]

Well, this week I am going to test aptosid. If I am happy, then goodby Mint. I do think patience is a virtue, but complete and full information about the developments too. It is unbelievable to let thousands of users who look for a roling release wait for substantial information (not for excuses) for now over four month.

[zerozero]

At least the security updates for LMDE XFCE could have been released.

i saw this idea several times already: "why we, xfce users have to wait because of the problems with the gnome ed.?" and it all boils down to misinformation:
- although lmde-xfce is a separate ed, it uses exactly the same sources.list as the gnome ed.
- so, please tell me, how could Clem release an update specific for the xfce users?

[Kassad]

I, too, was a little confused about the issue. LMDE advertised as a "rolling" distro and after that somewhat held back by the update packs policy.

Well, if you are a "careful driver" then stick with the update packs.
But, if you are "adventurous" type then you might find helpful the following:

http://r3dux.org/2011/11/how-to-fix-lmde-repo-hell/

With this, I was able to get gnome-3.2 and install Cinnamon and had the rolling updates as well. If you have suicidal instincts then you can still vary your apt-sources further

[asymmetros]

At least the security updates for LMDE XFCE could have been released.

i saw this idea several times already: "why we, xfce users have to wait because of the problems with the gnome ed.?" and it all boils down to misinformation:
- although lmde-xfce is a separate ed, it uses exactly the same sources.list as the gnome ed.
- so, please tell me, how could Clem release an update specific for the xfce users?

Release an update pack with the following comments posted in the blog and shown in mintupdate:

this update pack is not recommended for gnome users cause of gnome 3.2, cinnamon, bla-bla-bla, you will end up with gnome 3.0, no mate, etc.. -so better skip it. But, Xfce users -go and grab it.

That will do it.

[hopimet]

- although lmde-xfce is a separate ed, it uses exactly the same sources.list as the gnome ed.
- so, please tell me, how could Clem release an update specific for the xfce users?

OK, you're right. But, again, I think that there is a lack of 'official' informations about the security and future updates of LMDE. I really worry about that because I love this distribution and I feel this is no more a priority for Clem. I hope I'm wrong.

[zerozero]

asymmetros, in an ideal world, maybe unfortunately in our real world it wouldn't work, think just about the amount of users that have no idea about what DE they are using (yes it's true, we see it in the forum too frequently- and those are the ones that come here and ask, now imagine the ones that just installed it and run it without even been registered here)

[hopimet]

Well, this week I am going to test aptosid. If I am happy, then goodby Mint.

I've been testing Arch for one month now and it is an excellent distribution.

[asymmetros]

And there is also aptosid's fork: http://siduction.org/

The first stable release came Dec. the 30th


@ zerozero - you 're right, it would be an "interesting complication" especially for users running gnome side by side with xfce.

So, the only, even more complicated solution (!), is the introduction of a third mint repo, for anxious lmde' ers, with frequent updates, deactivated by default. Of course, it won 't happen.

(I think it is obvious that i dislike gnome and xfce is my no1 choice)


ps: btw any idea why Clem abandoned the idea of producing an LMDE-based KDE edition? If the reason is gnome 3.2, is a there a choice for a LMDE KDE in the foreseen future?

[gavinhc]

So, the only, even more complicated solution (!), is the introduction of a third mint repo, for anxious lmde' ers, with frequent updates, deactivated by default. Of course, it won 't happen.

Wouldn't that be the Debain Testing repo? Which users are free to use in LMDE and Clem even endorsed as an alternative to waiting for the next update pack.

[marcus0263]

I like the update packs and stick with them, it brings a bit more stability to Debian Testing.

IMO the future of Mint is with Debian, Ubuntu has been going downhill for a long time and is only getting worse.

[KBD47]

ps: btw any idea why Clem abandoned the idea of producing an LMDE-based KDE edition? If the reason is gnome 3.2, is a there a choice for a LMDE KDE in the foreseen future?

I would liked to have seen it. My guess is the partnership with the Netrunner folks who also build on Ubuntu is one of the reasons why--seems like a smart move.
It is not that hard to take either the LMDE or LMDX release and install KDE onto it. I did it today just to see if I could manage it, and if I can do it anyone can.
http://s1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... reenshots/
KBD47

[ketoth]

IMO the future of Mint is with Debian, Ubuntu has been going downhill for a long time and is only getting worse.

+1.
Bringing the well-known Mint frontend everytime while Ubuntu's goal is tablet PCs, the devs will have hard times hacking through Ubuntu to build a working Mint. Modules have to be deactivated, functions, applets and so on, the list keeps getting longer. After a certain point it's nothing less than building toasters with dishwasher parts, that won't make sense.
Mint clearly would be simpler to build from Debian. But for that, hardware support, installation assistant and some other stuff needs to be simplified, improved. Dunno if it's more Mint's or Debian's job (or both).

Anyway we got good news, UP4 is on it's way 'gonna setup a VirtualBox to incoming to see if I can help testing. 'guess I'll restart from the ISO, my customizations probably won't live peacefully with UP4 on this PC.

[claudecat]

I'm not looking forward to UP4... perfectly happy with gnome 2. While I agree that LMDE is in many ways better than the 'buntu-based Mint, there are some disadvantages. Ever notice how much more polished and professional looking the fonts are in Mint/Ubuntu? And little things like the shut down/restart/logout dialog look much better too.

[asymmetros]

I don't need a logout menu. "Alt+Shift+F10" = "Shutdown" for my laptop.

[Monsta]

Hmm, I wonder how many more complaints about the lack of updates will appear in a few months after the current debian testing will be frozen

[ej64]

^ @Monsta: I was already wondering if nobody is aware of the freeze ... quoting myself (from previous page):

But one thing must be clear to you: it can't be rolling gently for testing itself. Testing will get a freeze in June in preparation of Debian Wheezy. Then the next updates apart from minor bugfixes will come in after Wheezy's release (perhaps Jan 2013). So, a gently rolling release is basically impossible with testing.

[KBD47]

I must admit the updates concern me. Twice now I have borked Debian installs by setting the repositories to Testing. My Debian Mint install was made unusable by running Testing updates set to the Testing repository, and I tried a dist update/upgrade on SalineOS Debian by pointing to Testing. I don't know if the third time will be a charm or the end of my experiment with Debian Testing
KBD47