bamm wrote:Let's say you configure Gnome3 for a friend you are converting to Linux. What if he creates a new user? What if he recommends it to his friends? Do they need to have you to reconfigure it to make it usable?
When Mint attempted to include Gnome3 in Lisa, they had to create their own extensions. Zorin also created its own set of extensions. SolusOS is still in Squeeze but when they migrate to Wheezy Ikey has said that it will have a heavily modified Gnome3. These distros wanted people to have a good experience on first try.
Think Firefox. Firefox has a good extension system, but has good defaults too. That is the beauty of open source. Now let's say I release a browser that has no URL bar or no support for bookmarks, because I don't believe in them anymore. Then lots of third party coders scramble to create extensions that restore these functionality. It is a sign that my product is bad by design. To rely on third parties to provide important things is irresponsible, and it's the ugly side of open source when people say "you want it, you code it yourself!" because it gives an excuse to do things badly.
Gnome made a lot of bad decisions which they won't even admit. Did you add a panel, or a maximize/minimize button? You had to add 10-15 extensions because the Gnome team believes that those features should not be there. Fortunately, Mint is a distro that cares about giving people good defaults.
Good Points bamm... No, I wouldn't really recommend a default install of Gnome3/Gnome-Shell to a new user ( I definitely agree with you there).. I also agree that out of the box, it definitely needs some help to be really usable and Gnome DID make some bad decisions.
I myself don't mind having to do a 'little work' to have my install to my liking (I've had to do that to every install I've ever done over the years, whether it was SLS, Slackware, RedHat/Fedora/CentOS, PCLinuxOS, Arch, vanilla Debian, etc.., .....). I'm even totally fine with Mint having their default be Cinnamon/Mate if that's what the majority wants.....but the one thing I would really like is an easy path to remove it and change to Gnome Shell (if that's the DE I want). Gnome is a major DE and the path right now is a pain and somewhat kludgy feeling: remove MDM, install GDM, install gnome shell and any of the standard gnome apps, remove mate, remove cinnamon and remove any of their particular apps, other cleanup work, etc, etc..). With an easy path to move from the default install to a major DE available, I imagine a lot of the gripes with the current install would probably go away.
Many thanks for our civil disagreement! I'm really not trying bash any particular DE or anyone's preference for any of them, I'd just like a clean path to move from the default install to Gnome-Shell without feeling like I'm having to jump through a bunch of hoops to get it done. Make sense?