Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby AlbertP on Thu Jun 14, 2012 6:34 am

It should have been faster, yes, if Imagination Technologies (company behind PowerVR) were Linux-friendly... At least I think that Intel does not support it well, because that company doesn't want the driver code to become open-source.

I would also rather have chosen a newer CPU for the mini computer I have built, but because I wanted to run Linux I've taken the D425 (single-core version of the D525).
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby minties on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:21 am

catalin-ch wrote:
AlbertP wrote:
What if you plug in a full size or half size video card from a known manufacturer? Then you can bypass the onboard graphics and solve the issue correct? Option two would be to pick up a board from another manufacturer which would have the CPU I want but a different GPU. Issue is that the only N2800 boards I've seen so far are from Intel.


The benefit of an Atom is CPU + GPU at low power requirements(and maybe low price). If you get an Atom + discrete GPU, then the benefit of lower power requirement(and maybe low price) are gone.

I don't know if there are any linux driver problems with AMD's Zacate APUs or not. If not, then I recommend that you get the E-350. It's CPU performance is almost identical with the Atom, but it's GPU is an HD 6310, which slaughters the GMA 3650. Of course the TDP is much higher at 18W. Or you can wait for Intel to release linux drivers for the GMA 3600, which I think is a matter of when, not if.

Personally, I love the N2600. 3.5W is a pittance, and my netbook does exactly what I bought it for, namely email, browsing, youtube and coding. Sometimes a bit of wordprocessing, spreadsheeting and photo editing. The N2600 does all of these things fine. I don't have any need for GPU acceleration, and battery life is excellent at about 7 hours. I have a desktop with more grunt for anything else that needs more muscle.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby AlbertP on Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:24 am

AMD has always had some Linux problems in its driver but after all on Mint 13 it's better than PowerVR.

minties wrote:Or you can wait for Intel to release linux drivers for the GMA 3600, which I think is a matter of when, not if.

I do not believe Intel will ever release an open-source driver for the PowerVR graphics.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby catalin-ch on Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:34 am

minties wrote:I don't know if there are any linux driver problems with AMD's Zacate APUs or not. If not, then I recommend that you get the E-350. It's CPU performance is almost identical with the Atom, but it's GPU is an HD 6310, which slaughters the GMA 3650. Of course the TDP is much higher at 18W. Or you can wait for Intel to release linux drivers for the GMA 3600, which I think is a matter of when, not if.


I'm not sure where you get your information from but all the tests I've seen show the other way round, Atom 2700 being king of the low power market atm. For example this

http://www.tlbhd.com/intel-atom-d2700-a ... ons-12025/

which is the first result that pops up when you google intel atom vs amd zacate.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby AlbertP on Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:38 am

Both Intels in this comparison have a discrete graphics card, the D2700 system has an ATI one and the D525 system has an Nvidia one. It does not compare the GMA 3150/3650 graphics.

Only the Zacate system in the comparison uses its integrated graphics. That is why it appears to be slower.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby catalin-ch on Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:43 am

AlbertP wrote:It should have been faster, yes, if Imagination Technologies (company behind PowerVR) were Linux-friendly... At least I think that Intel does not support it well, because that company doesn't want the driver code to become open-source.

I would also rather have chosen a newer CPU for the mini computer I have built, but because I wanted to run Linux I've taken the D425 (single-core version of the D525).


That's too bad, after all they are the people sourcing the graphics for Apple's iPad so they must be doing something right.

In my case, I would rather stick with the newer hardware and if it's well supported under Windows then I might go with Windows 7 64 bit for this project until the Linux drivers are sorted out.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby AlbertP on Thu Jun 14, 2012 10:46 am

I think the Linux drivers will never be sorted and never become as good as GMA 3150 is supported now. Intel has already decided to get rid of PowerVR graphics in 2013's Atoms.

And PowerVR graphics only works in 32-bit Windows. They don't even have 64-bit drivers for a lot of PowerVR based computers. 64-bit Windows may be fixed soon, or maybe it's already fixed and my info is outdated, but I think Linux won't. Writing an open-source driver would mean that concurrents can look how the hardware works, and PowerVR does not seem to like that.
Asrock for example is warning its customers on the website that 32-bit Windows has to be used in the specs of D2700 (etc.) based motherboards.

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... px=MTA1NDU
http://www.guru3d.com/news/intel-valley ... p-in-2013/
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby catalin-ch on Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:28 am

32 bit Windows then, it won't make any difference for my project, just that 64 sounds cooler ;) And for the sake of the discussion, the Atom 2800 processor does have 64 bit support according to Intel's website, it just depends if the motherboards manufacturers implement 64 bit on their products or not. As for Intel's own 2800 based board, the datasheet says it's certified with Windows 7 without specifying if 64 or 32 bit.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby AlbertP on Thu Jun 14, 2012 11:59 am

Yes, the CPU has 64-bit, but its integrated graphics does not have 64-bit drivers. So if you use a board that uses the integrated graphics of the Atom, you should use 32-bit, and if you use a dedicated graphics card (with 64-bit driver), 64 is fine.
On the Atom D525 you can just run 64-bit no matter what graphics you use, integrated or a dedicated GPU.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby mastablasta on Fri Jun 15, 2012 4:23 am

i was told and also after osme reasearch that it might be cheaper and better to simply use one of the HP micro servers.
for example Neo N35L or N40L
http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quic ... 16_na.HTML

According to specs: Graphics 128MB shared supporting 1920x1200 @ 60Hz

now as i see it is missing HDMI (and has only VGA port) however it also has 2 PCI-e slots. and mostly they come with 250 GB drive installed. it has room for 4 drives and as i saw on interned the CD drive can also be modified to use additioanll 4 (?) smaller sized HDD

it fully supports Linux OS (as indicated n the webstite). i was told that it is really very quiet and has low power consumption. this was confirmed by seing a couple of videos where users measure power consumption.

i plan to buy one myself hen i have enough money. though i will use it likely only as data backup & storage server.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby catalin-ch on Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:56 am

mastablasta wrote:i was told and also after osme reasearch that it might be cheaper and better to simply use one of the HP micro servers.
for example Neo N35L or N40L
http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/quic ... 16_na.HTML

According to specs: Graphics 128MB shared supporting 1920x1200 @ 60Hz

now as i see it is missing HDMI (and has only VGA port) however it also has 2 PCI-e slots. and mostly they come with 250 GB drive installed. it has room for 4 drives and as i saw on interned the CD drive can also be modified to use additioanll 4 (?) smaller sized HDD

it fully supports Linux OS (as indicated n the webstite). i was told that it is really very quiet and has low power consumption. this was confirmed by seing a couple of videos where users measure power consumption.

i plan to buy one myself hen i have enough money. though i will use it likely only as data backup & storage server.


If you read the reviews they say you need a graphics card to do anything video with it. At 300 price range, no video, no sound, not upgradeable, you can do better with your money. At that price point you can have a either powerful 3 core AMD setup or a low power setup for about 100 less
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby mastablasta on Mon Jun 18, 2012 6:31 am

where i live i can't get anythign more into that price range. well appart of Atom based computer which owuld cost about the same. and is actually also not really upgradable.

believe components here can be added via PCI if needed.

Which AMD 3core option would fit the 300 EUR budget?

chepaest one i could find here was fusion for 59 and some board for 40 EUR (with NVIDIA GeForce 7025 integrated). box is about 30 EUR and then we have PSU which to get a quiet one would cost probably at least 50 EUR if not more and then there is RAM and disk. well maybe it would fit into this and the CPU would be far superior but i imagine it would also use more energy.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby AlbertP on Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:02 am

How is this related to Intel Atom? The HP server you mentioned isn't even Intel based. I think a moderator needs to split the topic.

You cannot use those Nvidia 7025 boards with Fusion: they have socket AM3 (which are used by the Sempron/Athlon/Phenom series) while Fusions use socket FM1. You can however use Asrock H61M motherboard and Intel Pentium G620 (or cheaper Celeron G530) CPU: that's also a cheap combination. And you have integrated Intel graphics that way, which works very well with Linux. GeForce 7025 is outdated - modern Intel graphics is more efficient and maybe even a lot faster.

This HP server is also somewhat outdated, modern computers need less power to do the same (or the same amount of power to do more). Its CPU is probably a 45nm or 65nm one, while the Intels I mentioned are from a 32nm production process. The smaller size of the transistors makes it need less power.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby catalin-ch on Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:57 am

mastablasta wrote:where i live i can't get anythign more into that price range. well appart of Atom based computer which owuld cost about the same. and is actually also not really upgradable. .


Where do you live? Regardless of where you live, you can order online, that being the cheapest option. Example from here:

Motherboard with AMD AM3 socket and onboard ATI adeon 3000 graphics: 39 EUR
http://www.internet.ch/product_info.php ... anguage=en

AMD Athlon II X3 3x 3.2GHz CPU with AM3 socket: 65 EUR
http://www.internet.ch/product_info.php ... anguage=en

This is just an example, total cost 105 EUR with the remaining 200 you have plenty for RAM, Box etc or to buy better motherboard/CPU.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby AlbertP on Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:30 am

AMD dropped support for Radeon HD 3000 hardware, in Mint 14 it probably won't have a proprietary driver anymore. That way I'd rather choose Intel. Here in The Netherlands I can get a Celeron G530 for less than €40 and an Asrock H61M motherboard for around €50.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby catalin-ch on Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:51 am

So I guess after heated debate the options are:

Older Atom D525 with Linux
Newer Atom 2700/2800 with Windows 32-bit only
Wait until next year's Atom models come out

or

AMD or Intel high power high wattage CPUs with/without discreet graphics

Did I miss something?
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby AlbertP on Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:53 am

Right, except that AMD also has low power hardware: the Brazos series.
That's for example what the mintBox uses, which is passively cooled: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2055

Asrock has the E350M1 (dual-core) and E35LM1 (single core) boards. The E350M1 also has a version with USB3. The E35LM1 lacks HDMI and DVI and has less USB ports.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby catalin-ch on Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:59 am

AlbertP wrote:Right, except that AMD also has low power hardware: the Brazos series.
That's for example what the mintBox uses, which is passively cooled: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2055

Asrock has the E350M1 (dual-core) and E35LM1 (single core) boards. The E350M1 also has a version with USB3. The E35LM1 lacks HDMI and DVI and has less USB ports.


Except that low power for AMD is 25W vs Intel 6.5W and that AMD doesn't have 32nm technology in its low power range from what I'm aware, this is why I left it out.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby AlbertP on Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:22 am

The TDP is 18W for the E series, not 25W. And indeed, it's 40nm. The new Brazos 2.0 which was launched a few weeks ago (E2 series) is 40nm with 18W TDP as well. AMD at the moment does not yet use 32nm for the low power hardware.

There are Fusion CPU's with lower power usage, such as the C, Z and G series (the mintBox uses G-Series CPU). But those are rare on desktop motherboards.
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Re: Itel Atom CPU/motheboard and Linux

Postby catalin-ch on Tue Jun 19, 2012 11:11 am

AlbertP wrote:The TDP is 18W for the E series, not 25W. And indeed, it's 40nm. The new Brazos 2.0 which was launched a few weeks ago (E2 series) is 40nm with 18W TDP as well. AMD at the moment does not yet use 32nm for the low power hardware.

There are Fusion CPU's with lower power usage, such as the C, Z and G series (the mintBox uses G-Series CPU). But those are rare on desktop motherboards.


Wikipedia lists 35W for E2. Where do you get your data from?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AM ... #E2_Series

Also 35W listed on AMD website:
http://products.amd.com/en-us/NotebookA ... 2&f5=&f6=&
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