Linux disappointed me

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Linux disappointed me

Postby letian on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:07 am

I was looking for a proper replacement of windows for a person who does not know much about PCs. So we have a netbook (hp pavilion dm1) and an ordinary user. The first distro I tried was Zorin under gnome DE. Windows alike environment with a good collection of software preinstalled. That one didn't work, since the internet connection became disabled at random times and only a reboot could help to restore it, buggy task panel, buggy traybar, omg. That was horrible.
Now I've decided to try Cinnamon Mint, taking into account that it's among the best out-of-the-box distros around. So what I can't understand is how does cinnamon considered to be stable, when it crashed like 5-7 times since I installed it yesterday? It simply reloads out of a sudden. Now that I've installed clementine, the only decent music player in linux world) The icons in the menu and on the taskbar for clementine disappeared,above that It stopped playing music files for no reason at all. You call it a good integration? I shall start raging but at some point one can't restrain himself anymore. Now when I was asked to install a user-friendly distribution it looks like they are falling apart to fulfill even the most basic tasks I just feel deep disappointment. I'm not blaming anyone I just feel like a complete idiot for telling ppl that linux on a desktop is a reality. Now after saying this I must add "if you know how to make it that way first". Another thing I can't understand is why there is no option for cascaded windows? I have not seen this in any linux distro. I can of course configure it, use a script at least and etc. But why it has not been implemented for so many years? I'm being constantly asked why is that not working, oh why is that ms office tables get screwed in libreoffice, why sound so horrible in vlc (don't know why some distors persist using this media player), why is that icon not shown, why everything is so unstable and loose?
I like linux and shall always use it, but at some point you should just accept the damn fact -- linux on a desktop is a myth and now when I think about that malwared windows I think it is the best "just working" system in the world for a person who just needs convenience.
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby fraxinus_63 on Thu Sep 13, 2012 5:48 am

Needless to say, I'm disappointed to hear about your experiences. Have you asked for support elsewhere in the forum for any of these specific issues with your Mint install?

Where I disagree with you is your statement that "Linux on a desktop is a myth". In my own family most people now use it and are delighted with it - however, I do tend to set it up for them, rather than leaving them to install it themselves. If you post specific issues in the Help section of this forum, along with appropriate hardware information, someone may well be able to help.
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby letian on Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:07 am

Yes, I know, that. That is why I can't understand how is my girlfriend keeps running into these, these small inconveniences for me and completely unacceptable for her. I can handle it, but what if there is noone around? What if a person simply does not know what to do with that icon that does not work or that internet connection that fails out of a sudden. I can fix this up myself, it is the fact that linux needs much more attention that disappoints me. She used to have windows and ask me some questions but there at least, this type of stuff was not a breaker for your work. That network issues with Zorin costed a day of work and some nerves. Pretty awesome after I convinced that linux is better now look like a complete idiot. It is futile to explain to not tech savvy people that linux architecture is more advanced and actually flexible than of windows. If linux wants to conquer the desktop it needs to convince ordinary users that it actually is working and does not require a support guy to fulfill basic tasks.

And btw, I feel like KDE should be stable enough to try. If that does not work, I shall install windows back and go cry in the corner :D
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby xenopeek on Thu Sep 13, 2012 6:46 am

Windows comes pre-installed on computers, so average users think Windows is easier than Linux. It's not. Try installing Windows on similar hardware and you can spend a good few days on finding working drivers for your hardware. It's not so much a question of making Linux easier, as it is of getting Linux pre-installed on computers. When it is all configured properly and set to only upgrade packages for security updates... But average users can mess up Linux just as much as Windows, and they won't be able to tell you what they did to create the mess :wink:
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby hugoleal85 on Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:11 am

Vincent Vermeulen wrote:Windows comes pre-installed on computers, so average users think Windows is easier than Linux. It's not. Try installing Windows on similar hardware and you can spend a good few days on finding working drivers for your hardware. It's not so much a question of making Linux easier, as it is of getting Linux pre-installed on computers. When it is all configured properly and set to only upgrade packages for security updates... But average users can mess up Linux just as much as Windows, and they won't be able to tell you what they did to create the mess :wink:



Perfect description.
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby letian on Thu Sep 13, 2012 10:28 am

Vincent Vermeulen wrote:Windows comes pre-installed on computers, so average users think Windows is easier than Linux. It's not. Try installing Windows on similar hardware and you can spend a good few days on finding working drivers for your hardware. It's not so much a question of making Linux easier, as it is of getting Linux pre-installed on computers. When it is all configured properly and set to only upgrade packages for security updates... But average users can mess up Linux just as much as Windows, and they won't be able to tell you what they did to create the mess :wink:

Yes, bundled with a laptop would be great. But how many vendors are actually doing it? hp? dell?
Well, I shall go with Mint KDE just because of ubuntu good compatibility with new laptops. Otherwise I guess SUSE would be a preferred KDE choice or Maegia, hmm Maegia didn't even boot on that laptop.
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby OldManHook on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:03 pm

Slow the R..Dude :)
Why Rant?...Need Help :?: Ask :idea:
Tell us about your Computer(HP Pavilion dm1?)...What kind of Connection... What kind of Crashes?..Many Netbooks Don't have Specs to Run Cinnamon(3D)
Also Keep in Mind Cinn. is New...Did you try Mate? Or maybe Linux Mint 9.
Have You used VLC?..It's the best(UnKnown) Media Player even on Windows..

Just My 2cents... It's Just An OS...So is Windows 7 Starter... So if Linux disappoint You :?: :(
"Be the change you want to see in the world"
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby letian on Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:49 am

OldManHook wrote:Slow the R..Dude :)
Why Rant?...Need Help :?: Ask :idea:
Tell us about your Computer(HP Pavilion dm1?)...What kind of Connection... What kind of Crashes?..Many Netbooks Don't have Specs to Run Cinnamon(3D)
Also Keep in Mind Cinn. is New...Did you try Mate? Or maybe Linux Mint 9.
Have You used VLC?..It's the best(UnKnown) Media Player even on Windows..

Just My 2cents... It's Just An OS...So is Windows 7 Starter... So if Linux disappoint You :?: :(


I don't need help with that, unless it is a hardware related problem. I'm disappointed by the lack of out-of-the-box stability and functionality. It is nowhere compared to windows. When I installed windows I did not have any problem for a year, the only problem was the lack of pdf viewer or office software. When I install linux, unpredictable things happen all the time. I just got tired of fixing the stuff that should not be broken in the first place.

You may think I'm a troll, but just today after I installed KDE Mint, I'm sitting in my office and getting a call saying that sound does not work and it is not "oh, your kmix was muted accidentally issue". So, what a sane person can think about linux? Hardware problem? Then why did cinnamon audio worked? Why did I have sound yesterday evening and after booting up today it disappeared? The patience of every person is limited, for 3 years of using linux I had so many issues I can't even count, but I liked it, cause that made me learn how things work. I liked cause I felt I was doing something good. My DE was a black prompt, I had scripts to do the job that interface does. But eventually one just gets tired, this is an endless circle and time comes when you just want the damn thing work without your attention. That's why I dropped arch and looked at ubuntu with its good support and out of the box functionality. I honestly thought that linux is capable at handling a complete newbie as my friend, but that is so not true even now.

There is a reason that one os took a 90% of the market share. Again, I'm sorry I have to write all this, I could just keep it to myself and stop the useless rant. But I feel that people should just know what they are going up to if they think that linux is just a free of charge alternative to windows.
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby xenopeek on Fri Sep 14, 2012 6:08 am

letian wrote:But I feel that people should just know what they are going up to if they think that linux is just a free of charge alternative to windows.

True, and is was never meant to be :D GNU/Linux was meant to be a free (as in speech) Unix for personal computers. Use whatever works best for you :wink:
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby DrHu on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:39 am

letian wrote:I like linux and shall always use it, but at some point you should just accept the damn fact -- linux on a desktop is a myth and now when I think about that malwared windows I think it is the best "just working" system in the world for a person who just needs convenience.

I don't think so


Every OS has problems issues or user complaints/misunderstanding of the OS or its methods/procedures
--that is lack of user attention or reading
http://www.techradar.com/news/software/ ... ved-655655
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/leopard-osx ... -1028.html
    Linux or Apple OSX just like windows OS has its own set of complaints/issues and forums that can address them!
--these all get fixed over time and with user questions and answers..

As for styles or features (ref: cascaded windows is a must ?); I could add double-click is a must, that is the windows way and it works and everyone likes it NOT!
--I of course much prefer single-click and always use that style no matter which vendor choice is presented..
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby Condorman on Fri Sep 14, 2012 3:20 pm

I understand frustrations when Linux distros, especially ones that come highly recommended, just don't work for you. It's a real pain, and it's sometimes hard even to not not take it personally. I'm really lucky in that Mint 13 and Cinnamon has been a largely flawless experience for me on my desktop, no crashes nor nothing, and I'm going to put it on the laptop soon too. It's too darn good.

But when you find it inexplicably doesn't work for you, and you've tried everything, it's best not to fight the tide and just shop around. Perhaps take a look at KDE in its various guises. Try other distros outside of the Debian based range perhaps? Because I don't care what anyone says, Linux on the desktop is not a myth. It works, and I've been happy with it for years. :)
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby jamvaru on Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:05 pm

this is a sort of generic waaah! thread; for people who are tired of fighting the fight
for example, getting a decent webcam software to work; i just bought a newer webcam; works good now, but I've not seen good video capture software yet

there are issues that AVERAGE computer users want addressed but DEVELOPERS don't care about, like useing webcam, apparently

I am not a newb, which means I actually WANT to learn linux... I think that is the break, the graduation point beyond newb... when do you decide you want to learn and master the linux OS? so, I have 8 partitions dedicated to linux testing; one purpose is to find a distro that I can offer to my friends and family as a christmas present; I WILL be giving SOMEthing linux on a DVD this year as a generic Xmas present ... join me on facebook @ Linux Mint Christmas DVD Project (yes, it will be MATE, likely, or maybe cinnamon next)

I've noticed that Ultimate Edition Linux 3.4 is really awesome for being fully functional and full of features. It has so much stuff going on you just wont miss cascade (which I haven't used for years, even in windows... I just minimize all/show desktop, alt-tab); UE is based on Ubuntu, which brings me to my main point

the linux community needs to be more cohesive to be successful against windows

Ubuntu became #1 because of some crazy guy who threw alot of money at it... It remains so because of the large number of people interested in it, and the crazy guy .... Mint benefits from its success, along with a number of others. Mint is better because of Debian, and Ubuntu, and all the people who work on Mint. The more we come together under a single banner, the better off linux will be.

Im actually about to delete my cinnamon install and go back to MATE, for good. MATE will be my default DE for a while. I will continue to test other versions, etc. I am very happy with MINT and MATE has the features I like. The rest, the audio, etc. tweaking, is stuff you accept as the price of free software. People buy Apple products because 'they just work'. Windows is not known for 'just working', but the opposite, actually. The only problem you have with linux is that you have to do it manually, rather than everything being automatic install and configuration.

The only problem you have with linux is that you have to do it manually, rather than everything being automatic install and configuration.

Now, for your specific problems, you need to find a distro that is geared towards your hardware, like eeebook, or something, whatever that is. What works on my A8 box might not be good for an older laptop.

I recommend trying Linux Mint 9, KDE (for windows similarity) ... then install whatever you need to make it work. That is how we do it in windows, too. You go with XP or 7 or VIsta and then you tweak it till it works.

So, what are your exact problems again? A numbered list would be helpful.

;]

i love to rant, too
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby axel668 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:44 pm

Try Mint 13 XFCE, it's rock solid and stable. Really. No kidding. 100% Money back guarantee.
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Linux disappointed me

Postby animaguy on Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:05 pm

I agree with axel668.

Linux Mint with the xfce desktop is awesome.

Very light weight and low maintenance and fast.
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby homerscousin on Tue Sep 18, 2012 5:26 pm

Wow! a rant and rave kinda thread. I've wanted to do this for some time. Can I? Kinda my thoughts on Linux. I installed Linux Mint 13 Cinnamon the last week of May. Almost 4 months ago. My first ever Linux. It worked ok. I tried to install the Nvidia drivers for my gt 220. Tried 5 times. 5 times I ended up at a black screen. 5 times with a different method. Nothing I typed at terminal helped. 5 times I reinstalled Mint. Installed annother distro, U.E. 3.4. Didn't try to install the Nvidia drivers. Had Firefox open one day just reading news articles, went to the kitchen for food, came back after a few minutes and the system is frozen- cpu pegged at 100%. Hit reset immediately. The next day my graphics card is dead. Coincedence? You tell me. The point is I was frustrated at Linux to the point of yanking hair out, and not from my head. It's 4 months later, I've tested 4 different distros, I built a new ivy bridge system and now run Mint 13 KDE. Right now, today, it runs perfect. There are some minor little things, but I understand what is going on and can avoid them. I have spent an ungodly number of hours searching the internet for answers that just don't exist, or at least not in one place. This is my biggest complaint about Linux. The info available on the internet. It ain't the same as Windows, or Mac, I guess. It doesn't seem to be as user friendly. You really need to develop a knowledge base before a lot of this stuff starts making sense. As a new Linux user I find it has taken me a lot of time and reading to get even one step above beginner. I see a lot of 'code: select all' without an explanation of what is really going on. People don't take the time to type a thoughtful explanation. With Windows you can almost always find a great web page with lots of screen shots on proper procedure. Yes, Linux does take time to become remotely proficient at, but I think it could be much more successful if we all were better teachers.

I would love to get to the level where I could compile my own distro with only the programs and features I require. Maybe next year.
i5 3570k, ASRock z77 Extreme 4, 8 Gb Ripjaws 1600, Antec 430w psu, HVR 1600 tv tuner, custom case- marble top, oak face. Carver & DCM Time Window sound system. Mint 14 KDE.
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby jamvaru on Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:53 pm

yeah

you can compile your own distro with aptoncd, i believe, or some other tool

I think the issue is that there is no incentive for linux people to cater to the windows/newbie market. Windows 'gurus' make lots of money on windiots who are willing to shuck out the ruples for whatever, like going to a bad mechanic for your car service. They figure, oh, you get ripped off wherever you go.
But, that is why you find stuff online written for newbies/idiots, because the windows gurus are used to talking to people who have no clue. Linux users/gurus just don't really get the questions, or have to field them as much, so they aren't self-trained to write web pages that break things down to the super-simple level. I decided to finally give up on windows recently, so I am facing this steep learning curve mountain too. The learning curve in windows is like a kiddie park winding up a smooth hill to a pleasant meadow at the top where all the windows gurus encourage each other with smiles and backslaps. LOL

But, this is the issue that is keeping Linux from the greater desktop market. Linux gurus simply do not KNOW how to teach windows newbs. The nature of linux is that you do it yourself. There are several nice forums like this one with lots of how-to's and stuff, but it is all very complicated, because Linux itself is built by gurus for gurus, so there really are NO easy gui step by step methods for ANYthing. But that is changing, slowly. Take the 'software manager' for example, pioneered by Ubuntu, I believe. It is a really easy way to install or uninstall whatever software is available. And, you can add repos really easily, after a short tutorial, of course.

There is no MONETARY incentive for Linux to become Desktop Dominant. So, people will spend their time fiddling with LMDE instead... lol, tweaking their repos and apt sources lists, etc... breaking and unbreaking their systems, basically becoming gurus themselves... or they will go back to windows, or probably get a MAC.

The simple answer to Linux Desktop Success is speaking to the most basic level of understanding.

Take your terminal gibberish, make a gui for it, and post some screenshots of the proper steps, for whatever you are trying to get people to do to make their system work. Instead of apt-get update, or whatever... say, well, IDK, lol... synaptic, install all updates? you get the idea..

whenever you have a solution that works in terminal, find some way to make it work as a gui

that will do it!

and then make a help program that is a fluid gui that takes you through the fix you need

can you make linux MORE user friendly than Windows or Mac?
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby I do Mint on Wed Sep 19, 2012 3:50 am

Well I have a little idea where he is talking about but then years ago.
Starting with Red Hat to figure out what was Linux and how it worked. A colleague was nuts about Suse and was playing around with it in the office.
I bought Linux for Dummies to at least get an idea how I even had to install RH on my PC.
But all that searching and tweaking always gave me the feeling of victory when something finally worked, I never had it with Windows since there was nothing to tweak or search.
So now after years I am here again playing around with Mint, but this is all a whole different cookie, it's all in a gui, hell it even boots up graphical!
In the RH time I always had to boot into my gui with start x before I could even get out of a terminal :)
So yes I do like it, even not all is working out of the box it is giving me pleasure to find a proper solution. There are lots of topics on this and other forums to help you out and yes not all distro's work fine on all kind of hardware.
That's how I came here since the mentioned best linux distro Pinguy OS gave me a lot of problems due to my NVIDIA videocard.
Is that the fault of Pinguy OS? No it is just the fact I have hardware which is not well supported, no problem since there are a huge number of distro's that do work.
So if you don't like it just stop with it, maybe in some years you come back (like me) to see things changed a lot and make your life a lot easier.
Until that time, good luck!

Greetz,

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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby jamvaru on Wed Sep 19, 2012 4:18 am

I think we are at a point where we can do both, meaning the windows newbie type that I am no longer.
The newb user can comfortably float back and forth. There is enough flash and glitter in linux these days that it is attractive.
We are getting there.
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby Wolfen69 on Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:47 pm

letian wrote:
I'm disappointed by the lack of out-of-the-box stability and functionality.

On YOUR computer. Linux has been nothing but rock solid for me and everyone I've installed it for. I switched to linux because I had nothing but problems with windows. It can go both ways ya know.

I've done 100's of installs of windows and linux, and by far, windows always gives me more grief. Btw, 2 vendors that preinstall linux are www.system76.com and http://zareason.com/shop/home.php Invest in a linux laptop like you did with windows, (or mac) and you'll be happy. Otherwise stay with windows and stop complaining.
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Re: Linux disappointed me

Postby jamvaru on Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:08 am

yes, if you don't buy a pre-installed model you will be frustrated by having to configure everything yourself; and possibly something might not work right, being of unknown origin (cheap junk, perhaps)

for example, i had a webcam from a salvation army i picked up for 2 bucks; it worked fine, but linux didn't like it; so I got a logitech c310; it is doing fine after I got the qc drivers installed; took a bit of work and research, but i figured it out

the only reason anybody wants to see Linux succeed on the desktop is because we enjoy using it; so only people who already use linux really want to use linux

a laptop with linux pre-configured to run WoW might actually sell (or CoD, or whatever... Halo or something)

and put some cool video game design on the case
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