Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby KBD47 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 5:56 pm

Intelamd, at this point Wheezy is in freeze, only getting bug fixes. It will be the new Stable around the beginning of next year. Ideally you should be able to follow the latest LMDE spins into the upcoming Debian Stable if what you are wanting is Debian Stable LMDE. That would be the least painful route IMO.
Current Debian Stable is supported until about Feb 2014, so it isn't out of date or anything. I have taken old LMDE spins released within months of Squeeze and turned them into Debian Stable, but I did not try to keep the mintiness. You might want to experiment a bit. apt-pinning is not something I'm an expert at, but my guess is that if you can pin the Mint tweaks and set the repos to Squeeze it might be worth trying. You will have lots of updates on an old spin. No one wants to discourage you, just point out some of the challenges :-)
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby zerozero on Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:12 pm

i think is time to say a few words here:
these how-to had:

1) a time
a- when lmde was still tracking directly testing;
b- when the UP were still young and people looked at then reluctantly;
c- some respins of lmde were in sync with squeeze (then testing) so it was easy to setup a lmde-stable at the time;

2) a purpose:
a- when gnome2 was dropped this was an easy way to keep it around;

a lot of things changed:
- we are almost in the end of the wheezy cycle and this lmde-stable we all talk about here refers to squeeze;
- mint changed development from gnome to mate and cinnamon and this impacts directly the compatibility of the mint repo in this setup;

furthermore when i see users asking for this linux mint debian stable my question is always:
- are you having troubles with the default lmde setup? what kind of issues?
- or are you looking for the mythic gnome2? if so have you tried mate? what is missing in mate that you had in gnome2?
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby KBD47 on Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:33 pm

zerozero, I know that I have pretty much lost interest in Squeeze now that we are so close to the new Stable Wheezy. Squeeze is starting to look very long in the tooth at this point. I think there may be interest in using the new Stable Wheezy repos once it becomes Stable next year. I think the main interest at that point might be to get updates from Wheezy's repos. Someone might simply want an easy to install Debian Wheezy. There may be other reasons. But I agree with you that it's better to look forward than look back at this point.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby jjnascar on Sat Sep 01, 2012 6:55 pm

Whoever is out there contributing, creating, and developing LMDE, I want to do a shout-out THANK YOU.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby KBD47 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 2:55 pm

Just a note about my latest experiment:
Took the unofficial KDE LMDE and after install I changed the Latest sources to Wheezy, leaving the Mint repository connected. It would not update because of a lock in the apt list, so I used Kwrite as root to remove it. I ran update/upgrade, took about an hour to get everything up to speed with Wheezy. Everything stayed intact after the reboot except the splash which changed to Debian's splash. The theme and wallpaper were Mint's. I'm not recommending this, it's just an experiment I ran, but I think this should be good to follow right into the new Debian Stable. Nice thing about LMDE is you have lots of options :-)
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby jamvaru on Sat Sep 15, 2012 4:32 pm

KBD47 wrote:Just a note about my latest experiment:
Took the unofficial KDE LMDE and after install I changed the Latest sources to Wheezy, leaving the Mint repository connected. It would not update because of a lock in the apt list, so I used Kwrite as root to remove it. I ran update/upgrade, took about an hour to get everything up to speed with Wheezy. Everything stayed intact after the reboot except the splash which changed to Debian's splash. The theme and wallpaper were Mint's. I'm not recommending this, it's just an experiment I ran, but I think this should be good to follow right into the new Debian Stable. Nice thing about LMDE is you have lots of options :-)


could you explain the Kwrite thing? what did you remove?
would you mind posting your sources list?
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby KBD47 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 6:10 pm

Note that with my experiment, dist-upgrade will break it, making it completely unusable. After changing sources and running update/upgrade it was in pretty good shape, but then I ran dist-upgrade and killed it :(
I changed the sources from Mint's Latest to straight Wheezy, then tried to do update but there is a lock on the apt list, so I used kwrite as root to go through var down to apt and list and deleted the lock file, then everything would update. But it concerns me that dist-upgrade broke the setup. I saw when it was removing kdm that I was probably in trouble. In the past I would take say a LMDE Xfce spin, install the KDE-Standard desktop, install KDM, then login to the KDE desktop, change sources and run all my updates/upgrades from that default KDE install and pretty much have a pure Debian system afterward. I've still got working installs like that. This experiment was to see if I could convert it as is without harming the default Mint KDE setup, that is the trouble trying to get back to purer Debian with the Mint tweaks and repos, it is hard to preserve the Mint settings :( Since this experiment broke under a dist-upgrade I can't recommend anyone try it. Earlier in this thread I list some successful experiments with getting back to pure Debian, and onto Wheezy to ride into the next Stable, but I'm calling this attempt with the unofficial KDE LMDE a fail :(
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby cwwgateway on Sat Sep 15, 2012 7:55 pm

I don't know if you did this or not, but you have to delete the contents of the /etc/apt/preferences file to update to wheezy/testing.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby KBD47 on Sat Sep 15, 2012 9:41 pm

cwwgateway wrote:I don't know if you did this or not, but you have to delete the contents of the /etc/apt/preferences file to update to wheezy/testing.


I hashed out # the Latest sources, and deleted the lock that kept it from updating. It actually might have been fine if I had not run dist-upgrade. I'm used to doing that on my other Wheezy installs. Perhaps just doing regular upgrades and it would have been fine.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby KBD47 on Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:49 pm

Its been a few months since I tried this and I wanted to see if it would still work. I took the 201204 Xfce LMDE and wanted to turn it into a pure Wheezy, going into new Stable installation. It is getting a bit harder, and I'm sure the next LMDE spins and/or those released right after the new Debian Stable come out will work much better.
This is my experiment, it worked for me, it's not a how-to, I don't want you to bork your computer on my account. Just FYI:
Using 201204 Xfce the first thing I did after installing it was to install lightdm because I knew mdm would get removed no matter what once I started updating and I did not want to be left without a login manager. I also decided to install gnome-session-fallback in case Xfce got broken so I'd still have a desktop gui. Changed sources to the following:
#deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import
#deb http://mirror.rts-informatique.fr/linux ... ian/latest testing main contrib non-free
#deb http://mirror.rts-informatique.fr/linux ... t/security testing/updates main contrib non-free
#deb http://mirror.rts-informatique.fr/linux ... multimedia testing main non-free

deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free

deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free

deb http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates main contrib non-free

deb-src http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates main contrib non-free

deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org wheezy main non-free

As you see I just hashed out the old sources. Sources can be changed by using the root terminal: sudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list
and then save.

Now comes the PITA part. There are very many updates from the 201204 spin to the current Wheezy. I went to bed last night with it still doing updates, I'd estimate 2 hours or so updating having run:
sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade
in the terminal. The script stopped once or twice, I hit the q key to get it running again. I think I said y (yes) to everything it asked. It will also ask where you want grub installed if at all from the terminal.
Once done, still showed a couple hundred updates on the update manager. Update manager wanted to remove about half my desktop so I went back to the terminal, used: aptitude upgrade to see if it could fix some of the problems. It fixed some of them. Update manager still showed about 40 updates, and the desire remove parts of my operating system, so I went into synaptic and completely removed some of the problem packages, I think I removed pidgin, vlc, evince, and had to remove gnome fallback as well. After this I could run update manager and all was well. Then I went back to synaptic and reinstalled gnome-fallback and a few other things.
That was it, now I have Debian Wheezy and surprisingly it didn't completely mess up my Xfce desktop:
http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... 3821PM.png
And here is Gnome Classic with LMDE:
http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh5 ... 30PM-2.png
It was a bit of a pain, but it should be good right into the new Stable. And as mentioned, this ought to work much better with the upcoming spins of LMDE.
I'm not an expert at this, I'm sure there are folks here who could do a better job of it, and perhaps even retain more Mintiness. My goal was to get back into the Wheezy pool with direct updates to be ready for new Stable. I just wanted to prove it can be done with LMDE.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby cwwgateway on Sun Sep 16, 2012 6:11 pm

I don't know which way's better, but here is the way I do it (and I do it fairly often):
Change sources.list to (I keep the packages.linuxmint.com repo):
deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import incoming
deb http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free
deb-src http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ wheezy main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
deb-src http://security.debian.org wheezy/updates main contrib non-free
deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org wheezy main non-free
Delete /etc/apt/preferences - this is very important (I believe, although I'm not sure, that this is the reason why apt wants to remove most of your OS)
Log out, press ctrl+alt+f1, login as root (You can upgrade any way you want, this is just how I do it), type init 3, apt-get update, and apt-get dist-upgrade
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby KBD47 on Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:27 pm

Thanks cwwgateway.
That ect/apt/source list could be why upgrading causes me grief. Will keep that in mind for the future.
Thanks again!

Edit/Update: I went ahead and deleted that preference file just to see what would happen. There is a nagging window that now pops up every time Synaptic loads or installs software complaing about the missing preference file. In the past, when I suspected the apt-pinning was giving me issues I would just make sure the numbers were the same, in other words not giving prefernce to Mint over Debian using this to get into the file and edit it:
gksu gedit /etc/apt/preferences
I probably should have checked the apt-pinning before the update on my latest experiment, and maybe someone with more experience than myself can chime in, but shouldn't the apt-pinning numbers be even if one want to run straight Debian? And Mint get priority if one wants to keep the Mint repo? Also higher number gets the priority, right?
My thinking was that since I was disabling the Mint repo that apt-pinning shouldn't matter. But it would matter if keeping the repo, then wouldn't you need that apt-pinning?
Anyway, I got rid of the nagging window by copying the preference file from another Debian install.
I'm actually impressed that I still have a nice LMDE Xfce working desktop after all the messing around I've done :-)
Thanks.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby cwwgateway on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:17 am

Apt automatically (or at least it should) assigns everything the same number if there is no preferences file. If you keep the mint repo, you still have to delete the preferences file (or you could change all the values to 700) because the mint repo will cause problems when updating if it has a higher preference. I have no idea why synaptic is complaining :( . And yes, a higher number = a higher priority.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby Monsta on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:36 am

Pinning can be tricky... sometimes you have to read not only man apt_preferences (pin priorities are explained there) but also an unofficial but quite helpful pinning errata.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby KBD47 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:56 pm

Thanks cwwgateway & monsta!
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby zerozero on Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:27 pm

proper debian doesn't have preference file (same as ubuntu btw and lmde-kde :wink: )
Code: Select all
zerozero@debian:/etc/apt$ ls
apt.conf.d        preferences.d  sources.list~   trustdb.gpg  trusted.gpg~
listchanges.conf  sources.list   sources.list.d  trusted.gpg  trusted.gpg.d
zerozero@debian:/etc/apt$

Code: Select all
zerozero@deb-kde /etc/apt $ ls
apt.conf.d     preferences.d  sources.list.d     trustdb.gpg  trusted.gpg~
apt-file.conf  sources.list   sources.list.save  trusted.gpg  trusted.gpg.d
zerozero@deb-kde /etc/apt $


in the early days of lmde i too thought that leveling the preferences file in lmde to 700 would solve all the issues but this and this taught me differently

on the other hand most (if not all) of the problems caused by mint's pin priority are/were related with the patched libcairo and fontconfig but from UP5 those lib are upstream;

there's though one issue remaining if we decide to use the default preference file outside the default repos:
- one of the rules says
Code: Select all
Package: *
Pin: release o=Debian
Pin-Priority: 500
this will overwrite this :shock: meaning that if we add backports or experimental (that never should update automatically and should be used with caution) they will update all our system in the next dist-upgrade.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby KBD47 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:12 pm

Wow, that's not good. Looks like cwwgateway had it right on deleting the preferences altogether as they seem to cause issues every which way. Glad to hear LMDE KDE is free of it. I think I'll give it a try again after the next update pack is out.
Thanks zerozero!
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby zerozero on Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:49 pm

kbd, i guess everytime i speak about lmde's preference file i also mention that it works as it should if we stay within the default repos (didn't do it properly in the last post so doing it now :P )
it's only a problem when we leave latest/incoming.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby KBD47 on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:13 pm

Right, but I'm always tweaking things and trying either Testing or Sid or Stable lol!

zerozero wrote:kbd, i guess everytime i speak about lmde's preference file i also mention that it works as it should if we stay within the default repos (didn't do it properly in the last post so doing it now :P )
it's only a problem when we leave latest/incoming.
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Re: Linux Mint Debian Stable (For Those Running This Setup)

Postby jamvaru on Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:33 pm

just had to wonder, pardon if this question is too newbie ;]

what if you take a deb 6 install and delete all repos except for the minty one? (incoming i think?) [that is, ADD mint]
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