Do I actually need Java in Linux Mint?

[mark1mint]

This may sound really dumb,but I see quite a lot of java-related stuff in Mint,frankly I can't even begin to understand what every package actually is between icedtea,jre,cacao :all I'd want to know is if all this stuff is actually needed for an average user and if/how can be removed-I don't remember having all that java-related stuff in Ubuntu Lucid,and never had the need to install it,that is,unless I'm obviously overlooking something here.
You may find this request odd,but I really don't mind having stuff installed that I don't need/use and I'm not actually sure what is supposed to do.

[DrHu]

For some applications YES
--example being jedit (java based editor), there are also quite a few java based programs available, it is cross-platform after all..

Pick the application you want to remove and see what else (other application or library is also being removed), for example you can't easily remove mono or its runtime, since banshee or tomboy (Gnome note taker) uses those parts as the development language or support function.

[Brian49]

mark1mint - I don't think you've made it quite clear whether you are thinking of removing Java, period, or whether you are just concerned about the various ancillary packages.

It's possible to get along perfectly well without any trace of Java on your system; that's what I do. It's a matter of finding suitable alternatives to any Java-based applications that come installed by default, and also accepting that some websites you visit in your browser (not many, in my experience) will have reduced functionality.

[mark1mint]

mark1mint - I don't think you've made it quite clear whether you are thinking of removing Java, period, or whether you are just concerned about the various ancillary packages.

Because that's not even clear to me : probably both...

It's possible to get along perfectly well without any trace of Java on your system; that's what I do. It's a matter of finding suitable alternatives to any Java-based applications that come installed by default, and also accepting that some websites you visit in your browser (not many, in my experience) will have reduced functionality.

That's probably what I would like to do as well-I'm not concerned one bit about websites as I use NoScript already and usually restrict them from unleashing their javascript content,and if some website doesn't work properly,I'll do without.I've had a quick look at the packages in Ubuntu Lucid,and compared to Mint there's no trace at all of jre and icedtea and little evidence of java

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dpkg --list |grep -i java
ii  libjs-jquery                            1.3.3-2ubuntu1                                    JavaScript library for dynamic web applications
ii  plasma-scriptengine-javascript          4:4.4.5-0ubuntu1.1                                javascript script engine for Plasma

and yet everything I need works,so far at least.

[Brian49]

Please be aware that Java isn't the same thing as javascript. Many websites use javascript for routine background tasks, and removing Java from your system won't have any effect on those. Java is mainly used in interactive applications embedded in certain web pages, such as broadband speed-test applications (some, not all).

[axel668]

generally speaking no, except if you want to use Java apps.
and LibreOffice has Java dependencies, too.
just try to uninstall it (Software Manager or Synaptic), if you still have programs depending on it the system will complain

[mark1mint]

Well I'm now having a go at it,and (as expected,should I say...) this is proving to be a bit of a conundrum:for instance,if I simulate removing openjdk-6-jre-lib with apt-get remove -s ,then I get this message

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The following extra packages will be installed:
  gcj-4.7-base gcj-4.7-jre gcj-4.7-jre-headless gcj-4.7-jre-lib gcj-jre gcj-jre-headless libgcj-common libgcj13
  libgcj13-awt


by the looks of it,it's almost like java can't be eradicated from LMDE.
But,I don't need it,at least as far as I can understand:I'm (relatively) used to Ubuntu,and I've never had a Java control panel there,neither I've ever needed it

In short,how do I do this ?

It's possible to get along perfectly well without any trace of Java on your system

[Monsta]

That just means there are some packages in your system that require Java. For example, libreoffice-base depends on whatever implementation of Java runtime you have:

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default-jre | gcj-jre | java-gcj-compat | openjdk-6-jre | sun-java5-jre | sun-java6-jre | java5-runtime | jre

So, you try to uninstall one runtime, the systems tries to throw in another so there won't be any dependency errors.

[mark1mint]

I understand this (maybe ...) ,however I still can't figure why I have to have an OpenJDK Java 6 Policy Tool in my applications menu if I don't even know what it actually does,because I have never used nor needed it-after pruning what I could between icedtea and cacao packages,I still have

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openjdk-6-jre:amd64                           6b24-1.11.3-2                   OpenJDK Java runtime, using Hotspot JIT
ii  openjdk-6-jre-headless:amd64                  6b24-1.11.3-2                   OpenJDK Java runtime, using Hotspot JIT (headless)
ii  openjdk-6-jre-lib                             6b24-1.11.3-2                   OpenJDK Java runtime (architecture independent libraries)

are they needed for LibreOffice? How come that for comparison in Ubuntu Lucid with the OpenOffice suite installed there's so few java-related packages installed? One thing I've noticed is that the OO help isn't installed and that would require a java runtime,but is this possibly the only reason to have openjdk-6-jre installed in Mint Debian ?
This is not just to be annoying,I just don't like to have stuff on my computer which I'm not clear about what it does and if I really need to have,more so considering the bad reputation that java has as far as security implications go.

[DrHu]

I don't think Java has a bad security reputation any more than an OS does
--but simply loading locally in order to provide some system or component or menu support should really be that much of a problem, and there are Java controls available, usually installed as part of the Java runtime in order to manage security settings or prevent updates or stop Internet connections..

Just like Adobe reader has similar functions that can be turned off..

[Monsta]

I still can't figure why I have to have an OpenJDK Java 6 Policy Tool in my applications menu if I don't even know what it actually does.

Well... because the distro has been made by someone else, not by you?

more on what parts of Libreoffice need Java, and what to remove - please read and follow the links there.

I just don't like to have stuff on my computer which I'm not clear about what it does

Does it apply to the whole software selection, or just what's visible in the menu?

[mark1mint]

I still can't figure why I have to have an OpenJDK Java 6 Policy Tool in my applications menu if I don't even know what it actually does.

Well... because the distro has been made by someone else, not by you?

Very much so,I suppose

more on what parts of Libreoffice need Java, and what to remove - please read and follow the links there.

That's exactly what I was thinking about,so thank you very much.

I just don't like to have stuff on my computer which I'm not clear about what it does

Does it apply to the whole software selection, or just what's visible in the menu?

Let's restrict this to the menu,for the time being.

[mark1mint]

So,following the directions in the suggested link http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=111226&start=20#p632438 I've unchecked "Use a Java runtime environment" in LibreOffice and then tried again to remove java from LMDE,unfortunately this is still getting me nowhere,as shown below :

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apt-get -s remove openjdk-6-jre:amd64  openjdk-6-jre-headless:amd64 openjdk-6-jre-lib
(...)
The following extra packages will be installed:
  gcj-4.7-base gcj-4.7-jre gcj-4.7-jre-headless gcj-4.7-jre-lib gcj-jre
  gcj-jre-headless libgcj-common libgcj13 libgcj13-awt
Suggested packages:
  fastjar gcj-4.7-jdk gcj-jdk libgcj13-dbg
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  ca-certificates-java openjdk-6-jre openjdk-6-jre-headless openjdk-6-jre-lib
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  gcj-4.7-base gcj-4.7-jre gcj-4.7-jre-headless gcj-4.7-jre-lib gcj-jre
  gcj-jre-headless libgcj-common libgcj13 libgcj13-awt
0 upgraded, 9 newly installed, 4 to remove and 0 not upgraded.


what am I doing wrong ? I take something else is relying on java other than LibreOffice,apparently?
Since I totally share the concern expressed at the beginning of the post http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=111226&start=20#p632317,is there a way to get rid of java for good,without breaking other programs?

[Monsta]

I've unchecked "Use a Java runtime environment" in LibreOffice and then tried again to remove java from LMDE

Maybe you've skipped the middle step: remove libreoffice-base and other packages that depend on Java?

[mark1mint]

Yes,I did skip this:upon trying,if I simulate removing libreoffice-base,the entire libreoffice package will be removed too-maybe this is the actual way to do it,remove the libreoffice suite and then try to install,say,only writer and calc paying attention to skip the recommended packages ?

[Monsta]

if I simulate removing libreoffice-base,the entire libreoffice package will be removed too

But that's just a metapackage!
Look at its description:

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 This metapackage installs all components of libreoffice:
 * libreoffice-writer: Word processor
 * libreoffice-calc: Spreadsheet
 * libreoffice-impress: Presentation
 * libreoffice-draw: Drawing
 * libreoffice-base: Database
 * libreoffice-math: Equation editor
 * libreoffice-filter-mobiledev: Mobile Devices filters

If you remove it, these components will remain untouched.

[mark1mint]

I have a lot to learn,apparently...thanks.