Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

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Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby canadianwriterman on Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:02 am

As you likely are aware, there have been a truckload of issues with the new Ubuntu 12.10 for users with Nvidia graphics cards and it seems Intel HD graphics as well. I hope that Mint 14 resolves these issues before release in November. I'm using Mint 13 Maya and I have Intel HD4000 graphics and I'm nervous about upgrading to Mint 14 for fear of booting to a black screen.
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby OldManHook on Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:27 pm

canadianwriterman wrote:As you likely are aware, there have been a truckload of issues with the new Ubuntu 12.10 for users with Nvidia graphics cards and it seems Intel HD graphics as well. I hope that Mint 14 resolves these issues before release in November. I'm using Mint 13 Maya and I have Intel HD4000 graphics and I'm nervous about upgrading to Mint 14 for fear of booting to a black screen.



Why do you need to to upgrade :?: Mint 13 is an LTS :idea: You can wait for the issues to be Fixed :idea:
Check out the Fix on Unixmen....Google is... :)
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby cwwgateway on Mon Oct 22, 2012 3:56 pm

I feel bad now because I haven't heard about these problems. Do you have any more info on what graphics cards they affect or an article talking about it? I have an unhealthy need to run the latest release somewhere, and I have both Intel and Nvidia graphics cards (look in my signature).
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby canadianwriterman on Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:28 pm

OldManHook:

Like cwwgateway, Yes, I can always stick with Maya, but like cwwgateway, I am an upgrade addict. I thought the Unixmen fix was only for Nvidia issues. Maybe I'm wrong?

cwwgateway:

Checking the Ubuntu forums, it looks like the majority of problems are with any Nvidia card. However, there also seem to be similar issues with HD series Intel graphics.
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby canadianwriterman on Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:37 pm

Just to clarify (and also to add more grahics cards to the problem), the fix from Unixmen refers to AMD Radeon cards:

AMD Radeon HD 4000 Series
AMD Radeon HD 3000 Series
AMD Radeon HD 2000 Series
AMD Radeon HD Series AGP
AMD Mobility Radeon HD 4000 Series
AMD Mobility Radeon HD 3000 Series
AMD Mobility Radeon HD 2000 Series

I am not familiar with these cards, although it is odd that the cards are numbered the same as Intel HD cards.
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby exploder on Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:52 pm

The ATI discrete graphics works perfectly on my HP DV6 laptop with 12.10. In 12.04 and Mint 13 one of the cores on the laptop's quad core processor was constantly maxed out, it just did not work right. I have read that the experimental drivers are fixing issues with NVidea users. I installed 12.10 on an older HP desktop with on-board Intel graphics over the weekend and it worked alright, I have 12.04 installed on 3 systems with NVidea graphics and plan to leave those computers alone rather than going with a release with a shorter length of support.

As I understand things, Clem is planning on putting the new version of Cinnamon and the Software Center in the Mint 13 repos. To me it makes more sense to stay with the LTS release, update Cinnamon and the Software Center, then grab any newer packages you might want from the ppa repos. It's a different story if you are having problems with Mint 13 or Ubuntu 12.04. In the case of my HP laptop there was not much choice for me but to try the newer release because the laptop was getting too hot with one core maxed out all the time.

There are work arounds and solutions on the Ubuntu forums for many of the issues people are having with various graphics cards. Many have chosen to stay with the LTS or they have re-installed it. A lot of the complaints are about Unity being slower and this should not be the case with Cinnamon. If you want to run the new Mint release when it comes out, it would be best to check out weather your graphics card will work or if you need to use any work arounds on the Ubuntu forum because there are solutions there. I plan on running Mint 14 on my laptop because I am pretty certain my ATI graphics will work and the system should be a lot more responsive with Cinnamon.
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby cwwgateway on Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:57 pm

I know I should stick with the LTS, and I want too, but I have no ability to stay with a distro when there's a newer version (unless the newer version has regressions). I honestly have no idea why I can't - maybe I just can't have outdated software. Anyway, for those people who are using Mint/Ubuntu on a production machine that you want to be stable, use the LTS release like exploder said. Ubuntu and Mark Shuttleworth seem to be viewing the normal releases more as a means to an end rather than a good, polished release in and of themselves. If you read Shuttleworth's blog posts, he talks a lot about how feature/issue xyz isn't great now, but it will be fixed/refined/polished by the time the next LTS release is. Mint doesn't think that way, but Ubuntu is the base and it is thinking of the standard releases more as stable-ish development releases. I was especially thinking about this because I saw that Pear Linux 6 has been released based not on Ubuntu 12.10, but on Ubuntu 12.04.1.Bhodi does this also - 1.0 on 10.04, 1.1 on 10.04.1, 1.2 on 10.04.2, 1.3 on 10.04.3, 1.4 on 10.04.4, and 2.0 on 12.04. A little while ago I wouldn't have really considered this, but now it makes a lot of sense. PinguyOS, while it also has other releases, promotes its LTS release fairly heavily.
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby canadianwriterman on Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:08 am

I've read through all the "fixes" for Radeon and Nvidia graphics cards issues on Ubuntu 12.10 and am not happy with the awkward, bandaid solutions. I find it bizarre that 12.10 detected my graphics in Live DVD mode and during the installation, but failed on reboot into the installed environment. I'm not technical enough to understand how that happens, but it's weird. But, the biggest thing that bothers me is that 12.10 was released with such a huge bug that affects so many of its users. Did the developers not test using systems with Nvidia, Radeon and Intel HD X000 cards?

Anyway, Ubuntu has lost its luster for me. I've been a big fan of Ubuntu since 2005 and have used it daily. I was in love with the Ubuntu concept and the product of their efforts. But lately, it feels like Ubuntu has lost its heart. 12.10 doesn't work well on low power machines (although other 'buntus do), the Amazon issue, the revenue ripoff with Banshee a couple of years back, word that some high-profile project work will be done behind closed doors, Unity interface (although some have gotten used to it)... well, the list is endless and seems to be growing.

When Cinnamon came out, I really liked it and have alternated using Mint and Ubuntu ever since. Frankly, I'm ready to abandon Ubuntu and move to Mint full time. The Mint thinking is not the same as Ubuntu's. Things aren't done to "shock and awe" me, they are done to please me. I like that.
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby xenopeek on Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:45 am

If you are concerned about hardware compatibility, do as a lot of us do and install the next Linux Mint version alongside your current Linux Mint version. I always have at least two Linux Mint versions installed to my system (aside from having all current versions and editions installed in VirtualBox), so that if the new version is giving me problems I can fall back to the older version. Then either try to resolve the issue from there, or at least be able to continue to use my system :)

The team is currently working on the new Device Driver Manager program for Linux Mint, which is to replace Jockey. DDM should make detecting graphics cards and installing new drivers much less of a hassle. Schoelje, known for building the excellent unofficial LMDE KDE edition (see here: viewtopic.php?f=61&t=113571), is primarily working on that. See this topic for some impressions: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=113559. It isn't ready in time to be included in Linux Mint 14, but the Linux Mint team has this issue in scope and is working on it.
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby zerozero on Tue Oct 23, 2012 12:37 pm

i believe we are talking about several unrelated issues here:

- nvidia:
i found a couple bug reports filled against quantal
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... ug/1068341
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+sour ... ug/1068488
they don't seem relevant to nadia though because as far as i remember (note that i don't usually run the ubuntu-based editions of mint) image and headers are installed in mint.

- amd/ati
the cards canadianwriterman lists a few posts above are not supported anymore by amd
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=a ... acy2&num=1
i recall reading about a legacy driver (in fact it is present in debian http://packages.qa.debian.org/f/fglrx-l ... river.html >> have no idea if ubuntu already backported it or not)
anyway for those cards the safest bet is the open-source driver but that can be troublesome if you are upgrading from a previous release where the close-source driver was supported and you end up without X.

- intel
the new HD3000/HD4000 still have some kernel-related issues (but Vincent knows alot more about this than me :D )
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby Mozenrath on Fri Nov 02, 2012 10:30 am

I've never had a graphics card works as well in Mint as it did in Windows. Haven't tried ATI, but ever Nvidia or Intel card I've used has had some weird issue.

Usually it's vsync issues. With multipule monitors, there's always some form of tearing. Even with a single screen, there's always a sort of "choppiness" in every compositor that I try. This is not a problem I get when using a proprietary OS.
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby cwwgateway on Fri Nov 02, 2012 4:29 pm

Mozenrath wrote:I've never had a graphics card works as well in Mint as it did in Windows. Haven't tried ATI, but ever Nvidia or Intel card I've used has had some weird issue.

Usually it's vsync issues. With multipule monitors, there's always some form of tearing. Even with a single screen, there's always a sort of "choppiness" in every compositor that I try. This is not a problem I get when using a proprietary OS.

That's probably mostly driver issues. It is interesting though - my laptop runs cooler (not necessarily due to graphics cards) and has about equal performance to Windows, although I don't play games. I don't experience any problems or choppiness (besides in virtual box, but I blame virtual box for that). I'm interested in the multiple monitors because I got a second monitor for my laptop yesterday, and I have to wait for tomorrow or Monday to get the cable. I haven't heard too many good things about Linux's multi-monitor support, so I'm a little bit wary.
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby igor83 on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:12 am

cwwgateway wrote:I know I should stick with the LTS, and I want too, but I have no ability to stay with a distro when there's a newer version (unless the newer version has regressions). I honestly have no idea why I can't - maybe I just can't have outdated software. Anyway, for those people who are using Mint/Ubuntu on a production machine that you want to be stable, use the LTS release like exploder said. Ubuntu and Mark Shuttleworth seem to be viewing the normal releases more as a means to an end rather than a good, polished release in and of themselves. If you read Shuttleworth's blog posts, he talks a lot about how feature/issue xyz isn't great now, but it will be fixed/refined/polished by the time the next LTS release is. Mint doesn't think that way, but Ubuntu is the base and it is thinking of the standard releases more as stable-ish development releases. I was especially thinking about this because I saw that Pear Linux 6 has been released based not on Ubuntu 12.10, but on Ubuntu 12.04.1.Bhodi does this also - 1.0 on 10.04, 1.1 on 10.04.1, 1.2 on 10.04.2, 1.3 on 10.04.3, 1.4 on 10.04.4, and 2.0 on 12.04. A little while ago I wouldn't have really considered this, but now it makes a lot of sense. PinguyOS, while it also has other releases, promotes its LTS release fairly heavily.


I've got "upgraditis" too but am keeping it in check unless I see a really compelling reason to upgrade for my little htpc. I'm thinking the next LTS will be my ticket about two years down the road. Don't know whether I'll stick with Mate or move on to Cinammon or even KDE, but since I'm getting used to Mate, it does seem likely I'll stick with her. From what I gather they are all good, just different flavors. I stuck with Windows XP for about six years and before that Windows 2000 for another six years, so I'm pretty loyal where desktops are concerned, once I get used to one and learn my way around it.
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby Mozenrath on Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:37 pm

cwwgateway wrote:
Mozenrath wrote:I've never had a graphics card works as well in Mint as it did in Windows. Haven't tried ATI, but ever Nvidia or Intel card I've used has had some weird issue.

Usually it's vsync issues. With multipule monitors, there's always some form of tearing. Even with a single screen, there's always a sort of "choppiness" in every compositor that I try. This is not a problem I get when using a proprietary OS.

That's probably mostly driver issues. It is interesting though - my laptop runs cooler (not necessarily due to graphics cards) and has about equal performance to Windows, although I don't play games. I don't experience any problems or choppiness (besides in virtual box, but I blame virtual box for that). I'm interested in the multiple monitors because I got a second monitor for my laptop yesterday, and I have to wait for tomorrow or Monday to get the cable. I haven't heard too many good things about Linux's multi-monitor support, so I'm a little bit wary.


Multiple monitors is a pain in Linux, relative to other OSes of course. In Windows 7, it's pretty much a matter of hooking up both monitors and you might have to enable the other one, but otherwise it doesn't take a lot of configuration and it works perfectly. Depending on your graphics card, having multiple monitors might be a little tough to get configured but it's possible. Just avoid using monitors that are different in any way; stick to two of the exact same monitor. I say this because I've discovered that no matter what I do, if I have two different monitors then either one or the other will experience tearing to some degree. Windows and OS X have NO PROBLEM having two different monitors and never have problems with tearing, but tearing and vsync issues have always plagued my Linux experience. I've even tried two monitors that were the same size but different models/manufacturers, and yet at least one of them still had some weird tearing/choppiness. So your best bet is to use identical monitors and use Twinview. Twinview is kinda primitive, but it will get the job done so long as you have identical monitors. Xinerama is a POS and creates a mess for anyone who wants a multiple monitor experience similar to that in Windows or OS X.

I think the Linux world needs to get its act together and create a method for multiple monitors that can create two different refresh rates for two monitors, instead of being constrained to one refresh rate like in Twinview. Xinerama works around that by having multiple x sessions, but for reasons I won't delve into right now, it's just not worth using IMO.
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby Donovan on Sun Dec 02, 2012 3:52 pm

Mozenrath wrote:
cwwgateway wrote:
Mozenrath wrote:I've never had a graphics card works as well in Mint as it did in Windows. Haven't tried ATI, but ever Nvidia or Intel card I've used has had some weird issue.

Usually it's vsync issues. With multipule monitors, there's always some form of tearing. Even with a single screen, there's always a sort of "choppiness" in every compositor that I try. This is not a problem I get when using a proprietary OS.

That's probably mostly driver issues. It is interesting though - my laptop runs cooler (not necessarily due to graphics cards) and has about equal performance to Windows, although I don't play games. I don't experience any problems or choppiness (besides in virtual box, but I blame virtual box for that). I'm interested in the multiple monitors because I got a second monitor for my laptop yesterday, and I have to wait for tomorrow or Monday to get the cable. I haven't heard too many good things about Linux's multi-monitor support, so I'm a little bit wary.


Multiple monitors is a pain in Linux, relative to other OSes of course. In Windows 7, it's pretty much a matter of hooking up both monitors and you might have to enable the other one, but otherwise it doesn't take a lot of configuration and it works perfectly. Depending on your graphics card, having multiple monitors might be a little tough to get configured but it's possible. Just avoid using monitors that are different in any way; stick to two of the exact same monitor. I say this because I've discovered that no matter what I do, if I have two different monitors then either one or the other will experience tearing to some degree. Windows and OS X have NO PROBLEM having two different monitors and never have problems with tearing, but tearing and vsync issues have always plagued my Linux experience. I've even tried two monitors that were the same size but different models/manufacturers, and yet at least one of them still had some weird tearing/choppiness. So your best bet is to use identical monitors and use Twinview. Twinview is kinda primitive, but it will get the job done so long as you have identical monitors. Xinerama is a POS and creates a mess for anyone who wants a multiple monitor experience similar to that in Windows or OS X.

I think the Linux world needs to get its act together and create a method for multiple monitors that can create two different refresh rates for two monitors, instead of being constrained to one refresh rate like in Twinview. Xinerama works around that by having multiple x sessions, but for reasons I won't delve into right now, it's just not worth using IMO.


Talking about multiple monitor, linux and pain... Lost another day trying to solve something I finally start to understand cannot be solved. That's to get two different monitors (with different resolution) to work together, as in extended desktop. Along the day I encountered so many different problems I can't but laugh here anymore.. Like the one that I can actually get the two monitors to work, but only for that one session, after restarting I'm either back at the mirror setting with wrong resolutions (as if no changes were saved) or I end up having a black screen on my primary monitor when logging in. When that happens I see the login screen on my second screen but the first one remain black with an interesting mouse cursor of an black "x" with white edges...
And by saying I see the login screen on my other screen means just that: I SEE that screen but I can't actually write anything there. I then proceed to terminal by pressing ctrl, alt + f1 and login from there (at this point my primary screen works again). After loggin in I try to get back to gui with ctrl, alt + f7, which result the whole machine freezing and saying "checking battry state". What the hell is a battery state?

Unplugging my primary monitor and restarting solves the logging in problem, as now my second screen functions. Once I'm in Mint I can again plug in my second monitor and adjust the settings so that I get the right resolution (I get it to work through normal display settings, that catalyst thing doesn't work as it needs to restart machine in order to change anything and when I restart I get a black screen, no login etc...). That's one way of using computer, but luckily I can think quite some few better ways (booting straight to Windows or using my mac to start with).
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby cwwgateway on Sun Dec 02, 2012 9:51 pm

My two monitors seem to be working okay - I added an xrandr command to the startup stuff and everything works.
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby igor83 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 12:02 pm

cwwgateway wrote:My two monitors seem to be working okay - I added an xrandr command to the startup stuff and everything works.


That's pretty awesome, cw. Mind sharing the syntax for that command & how it is added to the startup stuff? I know a guy over on the ubuntu forums that is banging his head on his keyboard trying to figure out how to get the multiple monitors thingy working.

For my part, I do wish that there could be a simplification of configuration, a dumbing-down, like. There have been notable steps in this area, especially with the easy installation we find in a lot of distros. I ran into difficulty trying to configure the firewall and setting up the ATI video driver, those two things took a lot of time and I wouldn't be willing to testify that I did them 100% correctly either.
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby Donovan on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:16 pm

cwwgateway wrote:My two monitors seem to be working okay - I added an xrandr command to the startup stuff and everything works.


But for the love of god, don't reveal us what you actually wrote to that startup stuff!
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby igor83 on Mon Dec 03, 2012 4:28 pm

Donovan wrote:
cwwgateway wrote:My two monitors seem to be working okay - I added an xrandr command to the startup stuff and everything works.


But for the love of god, don't reveal us what you actually wrote to that startup stuff!


cw is one of the nicest people here, when he has the spare time available he will write you a thesis, as good as you find on Wikipedia. You should see the overview he wrote on Linux desktops, which inspired me to venture into Xfce territory...
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Re: Avoiding display issues in Mint 14

Postby cwwgateway on Mon Dec 03, 2012 5:34 pm

Sorry for not posting sooner Donovan, but I was running Windows when I posted (I was using a PDF that didn't work too well with linux). Also, thank you igor for those kind words :wink: :) . Anyways, here's the command for Xfce:
Code: Select all
xrandr --output HDMI1 --left-of LVDS1

For a lot of people, HDMI1 and/or LVDS1 may change depending on what iput you're using. Here's a nice tutorial for Xubuntu (which worked on LMDE Xfce): http://askubuntu.com/questions/62681/how-do-i-setup-dual-monitors-in-xfce
Here's a screenshot of how it turned out (for me):
Image
Disregard the big black bar - that's just because of the resolution differences.
Cinnamon seems to work with dual monitors out of the box, but I haven't yet been succesful at changing the default monitor. MDM doesn't work with multiple monitors AFAIK, and I might try lightdm or something similar (that's for next weekend, as I'll probably end up overwriting my KDE partition). I'll have to log out to share info about Gnome Shell (installed just for this occasion), and there is a GUI way to do it in KDE - I have to reboot to share that. I'd rather not install LXDE or other desktops right now, so I can't comment on how to do it in them. This topic is about Mint 14, however, and right now I'm testing on LMDE tracking testing, so there may be some differences. I know Mint 13 worked in a similar/the same way, but I have since converted to (almost) all debian installs, so I can't comment specifically on Mint 14.

Edit: I am using Xfce 4.10 from experimental and the siduction xfce-next repo, just as a note.
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