Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

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Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby fkasmani on Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:14 am

Hello,

I need some guidance here pls, cos I'm a bit confused.

I've been using Linux Mint since ver. 8 (Helena) and am now happily using v.12 but am reluctant to upgrade to v.13 as there's no Gnome.

However, I don't understand how come Linux Mint has stopped using or moved away from Gnome (as fom Linux Mint 13) in favour of Cinnamon or Mate? Is this a backwards move or is Cinnamon technically, visually & more user-friendly? While Ubuntu has moved to Unity, are we moving towards a simpler desktop environment?

I'm sure this is not the case and is just a mis-understanding on my part and thus would like some guidance on this, pls.
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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby viking777 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 6:55 am

Gnome developers killed off Gnome2 not Mint. As far as I can tell (because I don't like or use either of them) Mate is a clone of the old Gnome desktop, so if you like one you should like the other. Cinnamon is a development of gnome-shell which is what the Gnome developers replaced the old Gnome desktop with. Cinnamon is OK if you like that sort of thing, certainly better than gnome-shell which is pretty poor imho.

Mate will be what you want though.
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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby xenopeek on Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:07 am

Let's start with getting terminology right. Gnome Shell, Unity and Cinnamon all run on top of GNOME 3. MATE is a fork of GNOME 2. So when you write that for Linux Mint 13 "there's no Gnome," that doesn't make much sense as there is GNOME all around :)

The GNOME developers abandoned GNOME 2 so it can't be offered as a desktop on Linux Mint any longer, but MATE continues to be maintained and developed by the MATE developers (http://mate-desktop.org/) and so Linux Mint comes with MATE since version 12. If you want the GNOME as you knew it on Helena, then indeed Viking777 is right and MATE will offer you a very similar desktop.

If you meant "there's no Gnome Shell", you can easily add Gnome Shell to your Linux Mint 13 Cinnamon installation by installing the packages gnome-shell and gnome-session. Then from the login screen you can choose to run Gnome Shell for your session. Development of the MGSE (Mint Gnome Shell Extensions) as were added to Gnome Shell on Linux Mint 12 has been dropped, with all effort having been shifted to development of Cinnamon.

Edit: MATE, Cinnamon or Gnome Shell, it remains a personal choice which one works best for your :wink:
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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby nomko on Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:39 am

Vincent Vermeulen wrote:Let's start with getting terminology right. Gnome Shell, Unity and Cinnamon all run on top of GNOME 3. MATE is a fork of GNOME 2.

Reading this a question popped up in my mind: If MATE is a fork of Gnome2, on which platform does it run? Gnome2 or Gnome3 like Cinnamon and Unity?

I think this should be clarified as well for new users who are getting confused by all these names.
Last edited by nomko on Tue Nov 20, 2012 10:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby fkasmani on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:13 am

Thanks so much, everyone.

Now I have a much clearer picture and feel confident enough to upgrade to Linux Mint 13 Cinnamon and add the 'gnome-shell' and 'gnome-session' and it would look and feel like the shell on Linux Mint 12 - I was also reading how to add unity to Linux Mint (wonder if there would be any compatibily issues?).

What would be the easiest way to upgrade (not fresh install or reinstall) from v.12 to v.13?
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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby xenopeek on Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:49 am

Well, to be clear--if you install Gnome Shell it will not look like Linux Mint 12. That had the MGSE, to give Gnome Shell a taskbar with a list of open windows, to which you could minimize windows also, amongst other features. If you want that, go for Cinnamon. If you add Gnome Shell to a Linux Mint 13 Cinnamon installation, you get the stock Gnome Shell. This doesn't have a taskbar and works quite differently.
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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby viking777 on Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:52 am

What would be the easiest way to upgrade (not fresh install or reinstall) from v.12 to v.13?



There really isn't one, you have to reinstall. Mint developers to not implement the 'upgrade' path that Ubuntu has, they don't believe it is reliable enough.

http://community.linuxmint.com/tutorial/view/2
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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby xenopeek on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:14 pm

viking777 wrote:Mint developers to not implement the 'upgrade' path that Ubuntu has, they don't believe it is reliable enough.

For one in five users the Ubuntu 'upgrade' path fails: http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2012/05/how- ... de-go-poll. hence it's not recommend to upgrade that way on Linux Mint. 20% failure rate is too much.
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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby zerozero on Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:58 pm

nomko wrote:
Vincent Vermeulen wrote:Let's start with getting terminology right. Gnome Shell, Unity and Cinnamon all run on top of GNOME 3. MATE is a fork of GNOME 2.

Reading this a question popped up in my mind: If MATE is a fork of Gnome2, on which platform does it run? Gnome2 or Gnome3 like Cinnamon and Unity?

I think this should be clarified as well for new users who are getting confused by all these names.

guess it's not too much off-topic :)
so we should be talking about toolkits (GTK+) (QT)

- mate, xfce and lxde all use gtk2.x
- gnome-shell, cinnamon, unity, pantheon use gtk3.x
- kde and razor-qt use qt

- this is independent from the applications: we can use and mix&match gtk2/gtk3/qt applications regardless of the DE/shell we are in (the only real issue we can expect is theming)
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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby lexon on Tue Nov 20, 2012 2:25 pm

I am using Mint 13, 32 bit, Mate on a desktop and laptop. Works fine. I like it better than Cinnamon but then I am not a techie type.
I have been using Mint since Mint 6. Then 7. Came over from Ubuntu.
I recently double booted my girlfriends XP desktop using Mint 13 and she is so happy. She cares nothing about the OS, only that the PC is so much faster. Really no reason to keep XP but why mess with what works. At boot time, Mint 13 is first and she lets it boot.

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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby killer de bug on Tue Nov 20, 2012 3:23 pm

nomko wrote:Reading this a question popped up in my mind: If MATE is a fork of Gnome2, on which platform does it run? Gnome2 or Gnome3 like Cinnamon and Unity?



MATE is Gnome2. The Mint team took all the code from Gnome2 and rename it into MATE (& Caja Pluma...) and then they continued the development of this desktop Environment.

But it's very important to understand that MATE IS Gnome2. You should read this about fork : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28s ... lopment%29
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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby remoulder on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:16 pm

killer de bug wrote:The Mint team took all the code from Gnome2 and rename it into MATE

No this is incorrect. MATE is NOT a mint project, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MATE_%28desktop_environment%29
[Edit] your original post and add [SOLVED] once your question is resolved.

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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby killer de bug on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:31 pm

Ok first started by an Arch Linux... and now :

Further development
The project is supported by Linux Mint developers:[7]
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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby remoulder on Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:57 pm

Supported yes, mint project no. The mint team did not fork gnome 2 or rename it MATE or write the code (though they may have contributed to it). I think you are confusing MATE with Cinnamon, which IS a mint project though cross-platform.
[Edit] your original post and add [SOLVED] once your question is resolved.

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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby dcihon on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:07 pm

This is a sarcastic comment but after reading all of this.
No wonder why Windows users are confused.
Someone needs to make a simple explanation so novices can understand.
There probably is some links to some of these questions which I am sure someone will add to this thread.
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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby killer de bug on Tue Nov 20, 2012 5:38 pm

remoulder wrote:Supported yes, mint project no. The mint team did not fork gnome 2 or rename it MATE or write the code (though they may have contributed to it). I think you are confusing MATE with Cinnamon, which IS a mint project though cross-platform.


Thanks for your help but I'm not confusing Cinnamon and Mate.. but thanks :mrgreen:
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Re: Need some clearance on Gnome/Mate/Cinnamon

Postby sdibaja on Fri Nov 23, 2012 11:01 am

killer de bug wrote:
nomko wrote:Reading this a question popped up in my mind: If MATE is a fork of Gnome2, on which platform does it run? Gnome2 or Gnome3 like Cinnamon and Unity?



MATE is Gnome2. The Mint team took all the code from Gnome2 and rename it into MATE (& Caja Pluma...) and then they continued the development of this desktop Environment.

But it's very important to understand that MATE IS Gnome2. You should read this about fork : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fork_%28s ... lopment%29


nomko: one more point:
Mate IS NOT Gnome2... it is designed to look and operate "like" Gnome 2, but some features and functions are still lacking.

I am still using outdated OSs that have Gnome2 until I find a version of Mate that fits my needs and desires... ie Mint 11 and Pinguy 11.04
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