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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:06 am

dritzominous wrote:As for a music manager, how about Exaile? (similar to Amarok, but uses GTK+)

Looks pretty good. I'll add it to the list, instead of Banshee.

dritzominous wrote:As for alacarte, you might want to check out this:

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=50850

^ I've never used it before though. And no, I don't think it's in the Debian repos. :(

Either way, I think a menu editor is a requirement.

I'll have a look at it. If it's functional enough, I'll try to build a package...no promises, though.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby sanda on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:24 am

I'm not "sad" to hear that mint is dropping LMDE xfce. I've repeatedly felt the mint devs have been spreading themselves to thin.
I respect their decision ~~ besides, xfce has been around since 1996, and seems to be "going nowhere, fast".
Last edited by sanda on Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby dritzominous on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:38 am

@ Schoelje

Ugh, it just looks like some strange patch. IDK what you could really do with that.

It was worth a shot.
-----------------
Do you think MintMenu should be included? I don't use it, but do other people?
-----------------
Oh, and I know we're just talking about packages here, but how about we make a 'net install' option? I've been dieing for one of those in Linux Mint!

And the option of CD size .iso files, those have to come back. Heck, I officially volunteer to make that happen if someone else doesn't! It's not like it's that hard.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:22 am

I like the enthusiasm!

I'm in the midst of prioritizing all that has to be done.
It's not just creating a new iso (anyone can do that). It's about what I'm willing to invest for the long term without that it has to big of an impact on my family.
Some of the decisions I have to make will affect these two distributions for a long time to come. So, I have to be very careful not to be side tracked (although it's fun to think about) and focus on what has to be done now.

Maybe it's better to create a new thread with a wish list.
That'll be a good reference for future plans.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby zerozero on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:35 am

just because it's important for this topic i want to copy&paste Clem's answer to Jesse654 comment in the blog
Edit by Clem: Hi Jesse. You raise a lot of valid points. First, the definition of a CE: A “community” edition matches the same quality standards and is released and tested in the same manner as an “official” edition. The main difference here is commitment and delays. We can indeed work with Schoelje and consider LMDE Xfce and LMDE KDE “community” releases. Regarding the stats, you’re right, 4% is indeed a LOT of people, but it’s also ONLY 4%. Regarding my statements, they make perfect sense. I know we’re ahead of schedule. But we’re there because we’re making a push to develop more than before. If you followed our activity on github you must have seen Autarkper work really hard on Cinnamon and Mtwebster work really hard on Nemo at the very same time we were missing sleep trying to get Mint 14 released. Another thing is that we’re getting more and more efficient at what we do, so editions get implemented, designed, tested and released faster than before. What you don’t see though, are all the projects we have which we didn’t even start. I talked about net-discovery in the past.. and it’s still vaporware. I talked about R&D on the package base and all we’ve done so far is port our technology from Ubuntu to Debian. I look at software-properties, jockey, ubiquity and I want us to do better. I look at our communication, website, community and everywhere I see signs of resources being stretched. I work 7 days a week and I don’t want to burn, I don’t want to continue to see aspects of Mint being neglected and important projects not started simply because we diversified into a myriad of niche editions. We learnt that very early in the project when it came to partners: we need to focus on what we’re good at. Sure, we could make a netbook edition, of course we could try our luck at a server ISO but these would be better done by other projects and they’re not where our expertise is. When an edition only represents 4% and so many aspects of the distribution require more attention, it’s our duty to prioritize and focus on what is in the best interest of Linux Mint. I don’t want the Mint release cycle to be 6 months of re-spinning ISOs, testing, QA, and releasing. You like Mint because it’s more than that. And it’s more than that thanks to development and taking the time to think of how to improve things. Any distribution can spin ISOs with all the latest DEs, add codecs on top and fill their release cycle doing just that. That’s not good enough for us, there were hints of it when we developed on top of GNOME 2 and it was made clear when GNOME 3 didn’t match our expectations. I want to please as many people as we can, and we will do so if we find the time, but I don’t want that to take our focus away from our main mission. When something doesn’t fit or if we think Mint would be better by developing a new project then we need to be able to be in a position where we just do it, where when something is identified as being in the best interest of Linux Mint we’re empowered to just make it happen. And for this, development has to be a priority, and time within that release cycle has to be kept free. If we’re always stretched, we neglect the little things, we don’t do our R&D, we don’t plan ahead and when it’s time to make a difference we’re not always ready to do so.

interesting to say the least :wink:
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Fri Dec 07, 2012 7:50 am

Yes, interesting indeed.
I've been a business consultant for a long time and worked with companies on focusing their business plans, strategies and how to root them in the organization.
Clem's decision is sound and sane and will ensure the continuity of LM.

It also means that there are opportunities for those who are willing to take the plunge :wink:
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby zerozero on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:02 am

Schoelje wrote:It also means that there are opportunities for those who are willing to take the plunge

Clem wrote:First, the definition of a CE: A “community” edition matches the same quality standards and is released and tested in the same manner as an “official” edition. The main difference here is commitment and delays. We can indeed work with Schoelje and consider LMDE Xfce and LMDE KDE “community” releases.

you just have to do what you do best (meaning another great release same as kde) and ...

regarding software selection:
- exaile definitely (i mentioned it before i think)
- lightDM is looking more and more interesting as time goes
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:36 am

dritzominous wrote:[...] As for alacarte, you might want to check out this:

https://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=50850

^ I've never used it before though. And no, I don't think it's in the Debian repos. :(

Either way, I think a menu editor is a requirement.


Nice find. Wonder if it (ARCH) can be compiled in (Debian) in any way?

My one and ONLY big complaint with XFCE is the lack of a good menu editor."Alacate" is only of very limited use. You can turn on/off items, but not create new items/categories.

LXMED http://lxmed.sourceforge.net/ is more useful, but does not recognize 'categories' correctly. (and its very LIGHT).

If you like to customize your menus, or make custom sub-menus ('favorites" for example), you have to struggle doing it by manually editing menu files. a real nightmare... :shock: :arrow: http://wiki.xfce.org/howto/customize-menu
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:53 am

GeneC wrote:LXMED http://lxmed.sourceforge.net/ is more useful, but does not recognize 'categories' correctly. (and its very LIGHT).


We have to start somewhere, and this seems a better option than Alacarte or am I mistaken?
How bad is "does not recognize 'categories' correctly"?
Unworkable?
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:11 am

Yes, Its an improvement over Alacarte.

Categories issue=
Click for full size
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Some categories/items in XFCE menu do not show up/or are miscategorized in LXMED.
On the plus side, its a stand alone program with no other dependencies.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:25 am

Ok, here's the latest app list, but nobody has said anything about using AbiWord/Gnumeric instead of LibreOffice or Xfmedia instead of VLC:
Code: Select all
Accessories
+ Clipman
+ Mousepad
+ Notes
+ galculator
- Orage Globaltime
+ Sensor Viewer
+ Xarchiver instead of Squeeze
- Task Manager (replaced by lxtask)
+ Xfce 4 Print Dialog
+ Xfce 4 Print Manager
Graphics
+ Gimp
+ Ristretto Image Viewer
+ Shotwell
+ Simple Scan
Internet
+ Firefox
+ Thunderbird
+ Transmission
+ XChat
+ Pidgin
Multimedia
+ Xfburn
+ Xfmedia instead of VLC
+ Exaile instead of Banshee
Office
+ AbiWord/Gnumeric instead of LibreOffice
- Orage Calendar
- Orage Globaltime
System
+ GDebi
+ Synaptic
+ synapse
+ Users and Groups
+ Windows Wireless Drivers
+ System Monitor
+ Wicd
+ LXMenuEditor (http://lxmed.sourceforge.net/) or Alacarte
- Reportbug
+ Sensor Viewer
- Task Manager (replaced by lxtask)
+ lxtask
+ UXTerm/Xterm, but not in the menu
Last edited by Schoelje on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:29 am

Schoelje wrote:................ but nobody has said anything about using AbiWord/Gnumeric instead of LibreOffice.................:


Sounds like a good idea to me. Your aim is to make it light. Anyone needing more can simply install a full LibreOffice (who really uses all that stuff anyway?).... 8)

More elegant to add things, than remove them (You usually seem to be left with cruft, when un-installing)
Last edited by GeneC on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:33 am

GeneC wrote:(who really uses all that stuff anyway?).... 8)


I do :D
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:35 am

Last time I used a database was in a course I took at school ages ago..... :lol: (Win95?)
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:55 am

I've added Xfce 4.10 from experimental.
I read somewhere that there were problems using experimental for this.
What are the things I have to consider?
Code: Select all
echo "deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian experimental main contrib non-free" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debexp.list
apt-get update
apt-get -t experimental install xfce4-panel xfce4-session xfce4-settings thunar xfwm4 xfwm4-themes xfdesktop4 thunar-volman tumbler
rm /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debexp.list
apt-get update
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:17 am

I upgraded LMDE/XFCE to 4.10 from Experimental a few months ago, with no issues (I am tracking SID).
viewtopic.php?f=110&t=110656&start=0#p621516

A couple of applets were missing, but could be compiled.
Look here :arrow: viewtopic.php?f=110&t=110656&start=20#p622096

Its been rock stable with no issues whatsoever.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Jesse654 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:55 am

How is your Python? I'm working on DDM at the moment and I could use some help: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=113559

Not good, to put it mildly. I'll work on that, check out the thread, and get back to you.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby dritzominous on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:10 pm

Schoelje wrote:
GeneC wrote:LXMED http://lxmed.sourceforge.net/ is more useful, but does not recognize 'categories' correctly. (and its very LIGHT).


We have to start somewhere, and this seems a better option than Alacarte or am I mistaken?
How bad is "does not recognize 'categories' correctly"?
Unworkable?

I'll be digging in the source tonight!

Nice find. :D
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby ChipButty on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:29 pm

Oh man, this sucks! I just got LMDE XFCE up & running a couple of days ago on my Macbook figuring it will be my main OS on the machine. I've found that having three OS's on a Macbook is not nearly as easy as it is on my Thinkpad so now that I have got it all together I had hoped to keep it this way for a long time. With LMDE being a rolling release I wouldn't have to change anything and my Macbook would be happy. I might go with MATE as Cinnamon doesn't play nice on the Macbook, and besides I don't particularly care for Cinnamon too much. My main OS on my Thinkpad is Mint KDE which is my fave of them all. I haven't tried it on my Macbook because I know it won't run as it should.

Is there a lot of difference resource-wise between XFCE and MATE? My Macbook is a 2006 Intel Dual Core with 2GB RAM.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:54 pm

Chip

No worries..

The old LMDE/XFCE isn't going anywhere. Its just not going to be supported OFFICIALLY on the Mint end according to Clem. Your old LMDE/XFCE will just keep on rolling along. Afterall the most of the XFCE updates come from Debian.

Besides, we will have a new lighter "Unofficial LMDE/XFCE" edition that Schoelje is currently working on... :wink:
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