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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Matt267 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:03 pm

Gene,

you said that existing LMDE XFCE installs will just keep "rolling along." I run LMDE XFCE on my netbook because it gives me a good combination of ease of use and battery life. What should I change my sources.list file to to just keep rolling (opposed to update packs)? Should I make those changes now?

Thanks,

Matt
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Fri Dec 07, 2012 3:28 pm

If you really want LMDE (with any kind of flavor DE) to be really "rolling", point your sources.list to the Debian repositories:
Code: Select all
nano /etc/apt/sources.list

Change the content to this:
Code: Select all
deb http://packages.linuxmint.com/ debian main upstream import
deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian testing main contrib non-free
deb http://security.debian.org/ testing/updates main contrib
deb http://www.deb-multimedia.org testing main non-free

Save the file and run these:
Code: Select all
apt-get update
apt-get install deb-multimedia-keyring
apt-get update
apt-get dist-upgrade
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby mockturtl on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:14 pm

Is xfce still the default desktop, if you let the installer add one?

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/

I see craigevil found the commit, but I think I read an email or heard a rumor somewhere they decided to use gnome-shell after all. (ah -- yes, here)
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:37 pm

Matt267 wrote:Gene,

you said that existing LMDE XFCE installs will just keep "rolling along." I run LMDE XFCE on my netbook because it gives me a good combination of ease of use and battery life. What should I change my sources.list file to to just keep rolling (opposed to update packs)? Should I make those changes now?

Thanks,

Matt


Hi Matt

Sorry, been away.. :)
Schoelje gave you the answer...
With my old senile memory, I don't really pay any attention about Update Packs. I installed the original LMDE's and they were tracking "testing" as default then. I never changed to the Mint Update Pack Repos, and actually upgraded from Debian Testing repos to Debian SID. In my opinion, its less trouble (though you should upgrade almost daily, and keep an eye on the LMDE "Breakages" threads), to keep a 'rolling' distro, rather than the UP 'semi rolling" concept.
Its been a good 6 months with daily updates and no problems in SID. Even less with Testing.
The Mint Update Packs get tested, (and really a great but small bunch of testers,) but there is such a great assortment of end user hardware out there, and so many different configurations that folks have, that things slip past. I feel its easier to fix a little problem now and then, then perhaps several bigger ones with an UP.

Other folks think different, but it works very well for me...

If you update to UP6 and all goes well, now would be a real good time to change repos to "testing", as Schoelje has show above. There will not be the huge number of updates that would occur before the UP (bet there are several hundred in UP6).. :shock:
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Fri Dec 07, 2012 4:54 pm

Just a few things left to decide (concerning packages) for which I'm looking an alternative:
  • "Users and Groups" is part of gnome-system-tools which does install a bunch of gnome dependencies
  • Keep mintinstall (Software Manager)?
  • Keep mintupdate-debian (Update Manager)?
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby cwwgateway on Fri Dec 07, 2012 5:06 pm

Schoelje wrote:I've added Xfce 4.10 from experimental.
I read somewhere that there were problems using experimental for this.
What are the things I have to consider?
Code: Select all
echo "deb http://ftp.us.debian.org/debian experimental main contrib non-free" > /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debexp.list
apt-get update
apt-get -t experimental install xfce4-panel xfce4-session xfce4-settings thunar xfwm4 xfwm4-themes xfdesktop4 thunar-volman tumbler
rm /etc/apt/sources.list.d/debexp.list
apt-get update

I haven't installed xfce 4.10 from experimental, but I have installed from the siduction repos, and it works fine (I use it on all of my installs). Here are some good instructions for using that repo: http://crunchbang.org/forums/viewtopic.php?id=21324. It works very well, and it has most/all of the plugins.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby mockturtl on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:13 pm

Schoelje wrote:Xfmedia instead of VLC


I'm new to xfce, but xfmedia doesn't seem to be in debian or multimedia. Parole seems nice and light.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby cwwgateway on Fri Dec 07, 2012 6:26 pm

Schoelje wrote:Just a few things left to decide (concerning packages) for which I'm looking an alternative:
  • "Users and Groups" is part of gnome-system-tools which does install a bunch of gnome dependencies
  • Keep mintinstall (Software Manager)?
  • Keep mintupdate-debian (Update Manager)?

I don't know about users and groups - I haven't found a good alternative.
As for mint install and mint update, I think mint update is important for update packs (it gives you the details about the next update pack, assuming you use the latest repo). Mint install is actually fairly light compared to the deepin software center and the Ubuntu one, but it is slow compared to synaptic. I guess for me I'll go with mint update yes (if we're using update packs) and mint install no. I'm typing from a phone right now, but once I get computer/Internet access, I'll start looking at alternatives. I forget what SolusOS uses, but IIRC they are fairly light.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Matt267 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 8:19 pm

Schoelje and Gene,

Thanks for your replies. I'm going to make the change tonight to my source.list file.

Schoelje, I am quite interested in your "unofficial LMDE XFCE" project. I'll be monitoring it's progress. I'm also interested in Swift Linux which seems to be of the same idea. You asked about the Mint Update Manager and Software Manager. For instilling programs, I prefer Synaptic Package Manager because of it's speed and will use the terminal to run update/upgrade.

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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby dritzominous on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:04 pm

I suggest keeping the Update and Software managers. If you didn't, it wouldn't really be mint anymore.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby zerozero on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:11 pm

Schoelje wrote:Keep mintinstall (Software Manager)?
Keep mintupdate-debian (Update Manager)?
personally:
mintinstall no (+synaptic)
MU-debian (dunno :lol: ) it's now a robust update manager and the ease-of-use is probably unmatched;

Schoelje wrote:Xfmedia instead of VLC:
i have to check mock's suggestion (parole) but still think that vlc is a good option

mockturtl wrote:Is xfce still the default desktop, if you let the installer add one?

http://www.debian.org/devel/debian-installer/

I see craigevil found the commit, but I think I read an email or heard a rumor somewhere they decided to use gnome-shell after all. (ah -- yes, here)
apparently not
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby dritzominous on Fri Dec 07, 2012 9:57 pm

Personally I don't use the Mint software manager either. I just thought other people did. :lol:

Now, the Update Manager, that one is a jewel for me.

How about LightDM instead of MDM? (No gnome dependencies)

http://www.webupd8.org/2012/06/how-to-use-lightdm-instead-of-mdm-in.html

https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/LightDM

http://packages.debian.org/sid/lightdm

Squeeze instead of File-roller? (No gnome dependencies. Actually, it's a product of Xfce.)

And do we really need Totem and all of its Gnomeness? I don't think so.

Oh, and I would like to keep VLC. The ability to play just about any media file out of the box is pretty nice.

@ Schoelje

Excellent choice to use lxtask instead of the xfce4-taskmanager or gnome-system-monitor. I like it better than both!
Last edited by dritzominous on Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby wayne128 on Fri Dec 07, 2012 10:24 pm

dritzominous wrote:Personally I don't use the Mint software manager either. I just thought other people did. :lol:


Me too. Never use :lol: :lol: :lol:
Now, the Update Manager, that one is a jewel for me.

Occasionally I used, when I do not want to type :mrgreen:

But now I am playing with LinuxBBQ-xfce 4.10 ( siduction towo's kernel 3.6.6, default with Debian nonfree-firmware) and I tried update manager ( installed by default) and it is nice.. Click click and read read...simple. save typing apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade in terminal ...getting lazy :mrgreen:

There is nice BBQ scripts there..I am trying to learn from its cook book to make iso. :mrgreen:

I like that "check for upgrade warnings", especially for SID users..

How about LightDM instead of MDM? (No gnome dependencies)

+++ for this one, always work and works on many distros.


For those who are interested to try linuxBBQ, this is the link http://www.linuxbbq.org/



Regarding parole vs vlc.
When I used Salix-xfce4.10, its has default parole. It is snappy.

When I play media over network file ( I have another computer on networking running Debian-xfce as NAS storing many media files for network sharing), Parole seems to be more snappy than VLC in term of time to start playing.
But here is one issue: Parole does not play SOME of the mp4 file,, it does not start, I have not pursue the issue because I have VLC too, while VLC open file with a little longer waiting time, it plays EVERY media files I have.

Since I am on it, I decided to install parole on linuxBBQ and would just do a simple check later comparing parole/vlc playing various media files on data partition as well as pulling over from network.... will update later..

EDIT: got it installed, versions as below
Code: Select all
root@linuxbbqxfce:/home/wayne# apt-cache policy vlc parole
vlc:
  Installed: 2.0.4-1
  Candidate: 2.0.4-1
  Version table:
 *** 2.0.4-1 0
        500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ unstable/main i386 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
parole:
  Installed: 0.3.0.3-1
  Candidate: 0.3.0.3-1
  Version table:
 *** 0.3.0.3-1 0
          1 http://ftp.debian.org/debian/ experimental/main i386 Packages
        500 http://packages.siduction.org/xfcenext/ unstable/main i386 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     0.2.0.6-1+b1 0
        500 http://http.debian.net/debian/ unstable/main i386 Packages
root@linuxbbqxfce:/home/wayne#


quick testing:
vlc, play everything, both local data partition as well as over network shares.
parole, does not play many files over network, no reported error but not playing.
on local media files, errors, gstreamer not installed, :twisted: :twisted:

This is just quick test. not attempting to resolve with gstreamer....
so I would be happy to stay with vlc.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby mockturtl on Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:46 am

Schoelje wrote:AbiWord/Gnumeric instead of LibreOffice
Definitely. I'm showing 2.5 GB for debian + xfce4 + indoor plumbing, to that point -- LO would add 500 MB and, I assume, a ram footprint.

https://gist.github.com/4236624
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby mockturtl on Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:22 am

zerozero wrote:apparently not
That post is exactly what I was thinking of. Thanks, mate.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby gosa on Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:02 am

With regards to the Software Manager & The Update manager...

I don't really have any opinions in either direction, but I would still like to ask those of you who discuss wether or not they should be included:

Is it not the intention of this thread to take the frist steps towards creating a XFCE-based community edition of Linux Mint Debian Edition?
And if that is the case - wouldn't part of the idea with a CE be to try to keep to the Mint eco-system as far as possible?
- Otherwise it would only be just another distro, wouldn't it?
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:38 am

Gosa has some good points.

After reading the above posts regarding
Keep mintinstall (Software Manager)?
Keep mintupdate-debian (Update Manager)?

It appears that most (myself included) do not really use the above, and tend to use synaptic or command line (or Clicompanion = http://www.ubuntugeek.com/clicompanion- ... buntu.html) to add software or updates. But are we typical users?

Does "Unofficial" LMDE/XFCE want to be aimed at typical end user (who may want things as simple as possible), or the more 'experimental' user, who likes to tinker? I am guessing that most of us responding to this thread tend to be more 'experimental'.
Its easier for the 'experimental' bunch to remove stuff they dont want or use, than for the 'casual user' to muddle though a less inclusive distro.

I think most of the Mint stuff should be included, but from a personal (selfish :oops: :lol: ) point of view I would like it 'lean, mean and cutting edge'. Its easy enough to take LMDE and change sources, delete stuff not used, et.

I snuck in a mention of "Clicompanion" above because its invaluable to me. First thing I install on a new distro. Over the past two years I have collected dozens of terminal commands that I use often. I am too damn old and senile to remember them.. :P I am not asking for it to be included, BUT... :lol:
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:15 pm

Yes, me must keep the "average, not so experienced" user in mind.

What I try to get clear is: what makes Linux Mint, Linux Mint?

Is it the design, the tools that have been decided upon, the tools they created?
Is it the community, the quality we expect from Linux Mint?
I think it's all of the above, and more.

That doesn't stop me thinking about it and question the decisions that has been made.
Progress stops, when you stop asking.

That's why, now that we're talking about a detail like the chosen tools, I want your opinion.
It is clear that Update Manager and Software Manager are very valueable tools, and I think they would be even a very good choice on other distributions then Linux Mint. I just want to hear it from you.

Here are some more tools where I question their value.
I don't use them, and I can't even think of a good reason why others would, but I'd like to hear if I'm wrong:
  • Backup Tool
  • Domain Blocker
  • Upload Manager
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby tdockery97 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:36 pm

On the what makes Mint point, I think it is primarily the Mint-specific tools such as Update Manager and Mint Software Center, as well as the removal of a few items from the base distro that are deemed superfluous.

I agree with you on the three items you listed. In 3-1/2 years of using Mint, I've never used one of those tools.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Sat Dec 08, 2012 2:59 pm

Schoelje wrote:............
Here are some more tools where I question their value.
I don't use them, and I can't even think of a good reason why others would, but I'd like to hear if I'm wrong:
  • Backup Tool
  • Domain Blocker
  • Upload Manager


May be a coincidence, but I never used any of those as well.
For backups, I always clone with Clonezilla. Its never failed in two years and returns your OS to exactly where it was at time of last clone, and its fast.
First time use can be a little intimidating, but do it a second time, and its a breeze.
http://clonezilla.org/show-live-doc-con ... disk_image

What I try to get clear is: what makes Linux Mint, Linux Mint?

Is it the design, the tools that have been decided upon, the tools they created?
Is it the community, the quality we expect from Linux Mint?
I think it's all of the above, and more.


To me, its the community,and the quality. This forum is invaluable for support, and Mint always releases a good product. It was my first Linux OS, and after having tried dozens of others still my main (and as of late- ONLY) distro. It has a nice balance of included apps, without being to heavy, or too bare. Easy to install.
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