The unofficial LMDE XFCE - startup

Chat about Linux in general

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby cwwgateway on Sat Dec 08, 2012 4:43 pm

Schoelje wrote:What I try to get clear is: what makes Linux Mint, Linux Mint?

Is it the design, the tools that have been decided upon, the tools they created?
Is it the community, the quality we expect from Linux Mint?
I think it's all of the above, and more.


I agree - Mint is the software, as well as the community, and, overall a distro that listens to its community and tries to be the best distro possible for its users and its goals. I think that the software is very important, but Linux Mint is so much more than that.

Here are some more tools where I question their value.
I don't use them, and I can't even think of a good reason why others would, but I'd like to hear if I'm wrong:
  • Backup Tool
  • Domain Blocker
  • Upload Manager


Honestly, I've never used these tools. However, I have seen quite a few mentions of the Backup Tool being very helpful, and I think it is important to have some good backup tool installed by default (and this is, after all, an unofficial Mint edition, so why not Mint's backup tool?). Gene mentioned Clonezilla, which is probably my favorite way to backup stuff, but it is a little bit too complicated for a lot of end users (or just unknown) IMO. Mint Backup is a fairly reliable and simple backup tool, and it is a good idea to have, especially considering the possible breakages UP to UP.

On the other hand, the Upload Manager has always seemed kind of pointless to me (I have no idea what it actually does), and I would be in favor of removing that. The Domain Blocker also seems pointless, and I believe there are similar apps with more functionality. I don't think either has been improved or really worked on in a while.
Dell XPS 15 l502x - Debian Testing 64-bit NetInst Xfce, SolydX 64-bit Debian Testing, SolydK 64-bit SolydXK Testing
Old Gateway Pentium 4 Desktop - Arch Linux 64-bit Xfce and SolydX 32-bit Sid
cwwgateway
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 839
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:44 pm

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby dritzominous on Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:38 pm

Yeah, maybe we could keep the backup manager. But the upload manager and domain blocker can probably go.

I've never used them. If someone needs them, they're always in the repos.
User avatar
dritzominous
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:49 am

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby zerozero on Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:41 pm

in the topic of what makes mint minty, two small requests very dear to me
- inxi
- apt

and regarding the competition parole/vlc i did some quick tests and parole opens almost everything (fails .rmvb and some exotics .avi encoding >> both open in vlc)
zerozero
Level 16
Level 16
 
Posts: 6467
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:29 pm

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby dritzominous on Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:55 am

Perhaps parole could be better than VLC as a default application. The VLC gui kinda rubs me the wrong way anyways.

- inxi, wow. Now that's pretty nice! IDK if it should be on the default install, but nice.

- Clem's custom apt? Yes, that I would like also. But where is the source? I suppose someone could ask him for a peek.

For those that didn't look at the link, it basically allows a user to execute simpler (better) "apt" commands:

apt purge ubiquity; apt clean; apt install ubiquity
apt remove beryl beryl-core beryl[..]
apt update
apt upgrade
apt dist-upgrade


- Alacarte

Code: Select all
sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends alacarte


^ To install alacarte without gnome-panel dependency.

I've tested both alacarte and lxMenuEditor quite a bit last night, and I've found alacarte to be more mature.

It's not perfect, but it still does the job better than anything else out there. And lxMenuEditor uses Java..

- Themeing

We seriously need a darker linux mint theme for Xfce WITH Gtk3.x support. The Mint X and Mint Z themes just aren't cutting it for me.

Image
User avatar
dritzominous
Level 3
Level 3
 
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Nov 14, 2009 12:49 am

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:55 am

So the app list now looks like this:
Code: Select all
Accessories
+ Clipman
+ Mousepad
+ Notes
+ galculator
- Orage Globaltime (Orage cannot be removed without xfce4!)
+ Sensor Viewer
+ Xarchiver instead of Squeeze
- Task Manager (replaced by lxtask)
+ Xfce 4 Print Dialog
+ Xfce 4 Print Manager
Graphics
+ Gimp
+ Ristretto Image Viewer
+ Shotwell
+ Simple Scan
Internet
+ Firefox
+ Thunderbird
+ Transmission
+ XChat
+ Pidgin
Multimedia
+ Xfburn
+ Parole instead of VLC
+ Exaile instead of Banshee
Office
+ AbiWord/Gnumeric instead of LibreOffice
- Orage Calendar
- Orage Globaltime
System
+ mintupdate-debian
+ mintinstall (+ mintinstall-icons)
+ backupmanager
+ GDebi
+ Synaptic
+ synapse
+ Users and Groups (part of gnome-system-tools which does install a bunch of gnome dependencies - alternatives?)
+ Windows Wireless Drivers (ndiswrapper)
+ Wicd
+ LXMenuEditor (http://lxmed.sourceforge.net/) or Alacarte
- Reportbug
+ Sensor Viewer
- Task Manager (replaced by lxtask - cannot be removed withour removing xfce4-goodies)
+ lxtask
+ UXTerm/Xterm, but not in the menu


Included inxi and with apt you mean to be able to do things like: "apt search whatever" ?
User avatar
Schoelje
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 791
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:25 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:56 am

dritzominous wrote:- Themeing

We seriously need a darker linux mint theme for Xfce WITH Gtk3.x support. The Mint X and Mint Z themes just aren't cutting it for me.

Image


Aha, I see we found a volunteer! :D
User avatar
Schoelje
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 791
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:25 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby zerozero on Sun Dec 09, 2012 7:05 am

Schoelje wrote:with apt you mean to be able to do things like: "apt search whatever" ?

yep
dritzominous wrote: But where is the source?

it's here
zerozero@test-ups ~ $ apt content mintsystem | grep apt
/etc/linuxmint/adjustments/10-mintsystem-synaptic.overwrite
/usr/local/bin/apt
/usr/lib/linuxmint/mintSystem/adjustments/synaptic.glade
/usr/lib/linuxmint/mintSystem/templates/apt.conf
zerozero@test-ups ~ $

Schoelje wrote:Aha, I see we found a volunteer! :D

:lol: :mrgreen: :lol:
zerozero
Level 16
Level 16
 
Posts: 6467
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:29 pm

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:28 am

dritzominous wrote:..................
- Alacarte

Code: Select all
sudo apt-get install --no-install-recommends alacarte


^ To install alacarte without gnome-panel dependency.

I've tested both alacarte and lxMenuEditor quite a bit last night, and I've found alacarte to be more mature.

It's not perfect, but it still does the job better than anything else out there. And lxMenuEditor uses Java..


dritz...
That got my attention. Perhaps my 'alacate' is broken? I can't get it to do anything except shut off/on items. I can't edit properties, make new items, new categories.
Image

Code: Select all
LMDE-SID

gene@zordon:~$ apt-cache policy alacarte
alacarte:
  Installed: 3.5.3-1
  Candidate: 3.5.3-1
  Version table:
 *** 3.5.3-1 0
        500 http://http.us.debian.org/debian/ unstable/main amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status


As a test, I went to my just installed Nadia-XFCE-RC and alacarte works fully funtional there.???
Code: Select all
Nadia-XFCE

gene@nadia ~ $ apt-cache policy alacarte
alacarte:
  Installed: 3.5.5-0ubuntu1.1
  Candidate: 3.5.5-0ubuntu1.1
  Version table:
 *** 3.5.5-0ubuntu1.1 0
        500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ quantal-updates/universe amd64 Packages
        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status
     3.5.5-0ubuntu1 0
        500 http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ quantal/universe amd64 Packages


EDIT-2:
Nope, just installed alacarte: 3.5.5-0ubuntu1.1, same thing. Something is broken in my LMDE/SID/alacarte.

==========================


- Themeing

We seriously need a darker linux mint theme for Xfce WITH Gtk3.x support. The Mint X and Mint Z themes just aren't cutting it for me.



I have several GTK Themes that work well with XFCE

DARK
Selene (a favorite)
Atolm-gtk3
Aurora-Midnight
Buonanotte
elementary Dark
Gnomish Dark


LIGHT
Ambiance
Aurora
Clearlooks
Gnomish Gray (a favorite)
greybird
Paper Gray
Shiki (any)
Zukitwo (any) (a favorite)
Zukiwi


I use one theme that I slightly modified (darker background, green 'selected background) for Mint.
It started at Atolm-GTK3, but I made it into Mint-Atolm... :)
EDIT:
Its been a while, and I am thinking that perhaps someone else did the changes on this one? I have modified 'selene', but perhaps not this one. The joys of getting old.... :lol:
Image
Looks "Minty" with Mint-X icons.

Mint-Atolm for download (just unzip and place in usr/share/themes as root)
http://www.mediafire.com/?p43rlwn36l7e71r

=============
OR:

You can use any dark theme and change 'seleted backgound color (Green :) ) with Satya's "GTK Theme Preferences"
Image

http://www.webupd8.org/2012/09/customiz ... using.html

http://satya164.deviantart.com/journal/ ... -325890045

Source Code
https://github.com/satya164/gtk-theme-config/
GeneC

AMD Phenom2x4 3.2 ghz, 12GB DDR3, Nvidia GTX 460

Qiana (Cinnamon/XFCE)
Sparky XFCE (Debian Testing)
LMDE Cin 2.2 (SID)
Evolve OS (Budgie)
User avatar
GeneC
Level 7
Level 7
 
Posts: 1539
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:59 pm
Location: Maine, USA

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby mack_mcash on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:23 pm

Hey, folks.

Just noticed this nascent project and will be keeping as close a watch on it as I am able.

This project sounds like a winner that will be smaller with a refined xfce DE.

Thanks to all involved and good luck.

mack :)
mack_mcash
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 24
Joined: Sat Jun 02, 2012 10:54 am

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby ChipButty on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:41 pm

I guess I'm a little confused with all of this so sorry for the noob question. I'm new to LMDE as I just installed it the other day (XFCE) and I understand the difference between Debian Testing and LMDE but what, if any, difference will there be with the unofficial version? If it doesn't use Update Packs and is just a rolling release then isn't it just the same as Debian Testing apart from what packages are included? I'm thinking of uninstalling LMDE for now and trying out testing for a while just to check it out.
ChipButty
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:51 pm

Chip

It has been decided by Clem that LMDE XFCE will not be maintained any longer as an OFFCIAL edition. (see blog)
http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2237

Going forward, LMDE ISOs will be released in two versions: MATE and Cinnamon. The decision was taken not to maintain a KDE version of LMDE and to stop maintaining the Xfce version. This was a painful decision to make considering the quality of LMDE Xfce and unofficial LMDE KDE, but one that made sense for Linux Mint since LMDE Xfce represented only 4% of the Linux Mint audience. This is also consistent with our strategy to focus on what we do best, to do less and do it better and to invest less time in maintaining editions and more time in developing the core technology that they use. It was a tough call at the time when Linux Mint lost its Fluxbox and LXDE editions. They were great but they only appealed to a minority of our users and we can see the benefits of this decision now, we can release all our editions and switch to focusing entirely on the development of the next iteration much faster in our release cycle. Whether it’s Cinnamon, MDM, the Software Manager, the Mint tools, the LMDE live-installer or even new projects such as a Driver Manager or R&D plans related to the installation and/or base underneath Linux Mint, development is extremely important to us.


Bad news, but in many ways good.

Schoelje has stepped up and is going to put together an "UN-Official" edition.
(It will be a much lighter version, and have lots of end user input in development. AND XFCE 4.10).

The OLD LMDE/XFCE (201204) will just keep going along with Debian XFCE updates, and the standard Mint updates (less Mint XFCE specifics--there was not that much anyway..)

Just checked my old LMDE/XFCE install, and there are actually only TWO Mint specific XFCE packages that I have left installed
mint-info-debian-xfce
mint-backgrounds-xfce
GeneC

AMD Phenom2x4 3.2 ghz, 12GB DDR3, Nvidia GTX 460

Qiana (Cinnamon/XFCE)
Sparky XFCE (Debian Testing)
LMDE Cin 2.2 (SID)
Evolve OS (Budgie)
User avatar
GeneC
Level 7
Level 7
 
Posts: 1539
Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 1:59 pm
Location: Maine, USA

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby cwwgateway on Sun Dec 09, 2012 8:51 pm

zerozero wrote:in the topic of what makes mint minty, two small requests very dear to me
- inxi
- apt

I use inxi a lot and would really like it installed by default. I use apt-get most of the time, but I like the idea of apt.
dritzominous wrote:- Themeing

We seriously need a darker linux mint theme for Xfce WITH Gtk3.x support. The Mint X and Mint Z themes just aren't cutting it for me.

As for themes, I think we need to make sure that the default themes support GTK 3 well. I love Orta and shiki-wise, but neither have good (or any) GTK 3 support, so they look bad with apps like abiword that have been ported to gtk 3. Greybird and bluebird are both quite nice Xfce themes that support GTK 3 fairly seamlessly. Mint X also has good GTK 3 support. Dark themes with good gtk 3 support that Gene didn't mention include Adwaita-X Dark (which is my favorite) and greenbird, which is manjaro's theme. Greenbird is kind of like a mix of shiki-wise and greybird. I'd vote for greenbird, adwaita-X dark, greybird, bluebird, zukini, zukitwo, or Mint-X.

Edit: Also, the xfce4 and xfce4-goodies packages are just metapackages so they can be removed without a problem. You just have to mark the packages they installed as manually installed.
Dell XPS 15 l502x - Debian Testing 64-bit NetInst Xfce, SolydX 64-bit Debian Testing, SolydK 64-bit SolydXK Testing
Old Gateway Pentium 4 Desktop - Arch Linux 64-bit Xfce and SolydX 32-bit Sid
cwwgateway
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 839
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:44 pm

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby zerozero on Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:36 pm

i was going through the theming issue right now:
- first we need to make sure that any theme has gtk2/gtk3.4 support at the moment and at the same time be sure (as much as we can) that soon(ish) they will be gtk3.6 compatible
unfortunately this leaves atolm-gtk3 out (and this is also bad news for me because together with orta this is one of my all-time favs) but as we can see it's not going to be ported to gtk3.6 (ahh and don't read the link that MrMars gives as explanation for dropping the theme dev., really don't :mrgreen: )
the other "i want pretty please" was orta but Nick never ported it to gtk3 (that's why you find those visual issues cww)
rebek did that porting (the theme labelled for 12.04 should work just now in lmde but we have no warranties about the transition)

on the other hand we must be quick :lol: because some of the most famous themes are losing gtk3.4 support:
Gene mentioned gnomish but at the time of writing i can't find the gtk3.4 theme anymore http://tsujan.deviantart.com/art/GnomishDark-300548460

something like this http://www.webupd8.org/2012/12/2-beauti ... 36-or.html would be ideal (i'm not talking specifically about the themes tho they are nice, but the coexistence of both version)

just looked at selene (Gene again :lol: ) and it's kinda atolm-gtk3 ported to gtk3.4 (tks buddy :wink: )
zerozero
Level 16
Level 16
 
Posts: 6467
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:29 pm

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby cwwgateway on Sun Dec 09, 2012 9:55 pm

At this point, I think greybird, bluebird, ambiance, and Mint-X are the only fairly reliable GTK 2/GTK 3 themes. I think some other themes (like Adwaita-X Light/Dark, Zukitwo, and Zukini) are going to be updated, but I have been seeing a lot of devs (Clem, Manjaro devs, and some others) who have been frustrated by their theme(s) breaking frequently with every gnome update. Clem dropped Mint-Z because of the GTK 3 maintenance, and the manjaro devs (manjaro is based on Arch so it is rolling) have some warnings about updating because very few themes have 3.6 support.

The other problem is updating themes - how do we push themes to people, since LMDE is rolling? AFAIK we are using the standard mint repos, so we have to have a theme package to update from 3.4 to 3.6. Schoelje could ask clem to put a package in the mint repos, but otherwise I don't know how other than using the default Mint-X theme.
Dell XPS 15 l502x - Debian Testing 64-bit NetInst Xfce, SolydX 64-bit Debian Testing, SolydK 64-bit SolydXK Testing
Old Gateway Pentium 4 Desktop - Arch Linux 64-bit Xfce and SolydX 32-bit Sid
cwwgateway
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 839
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:44 pm

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby mockturtl on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:59 pm

zerozero wrote:unfortunately this leaves atolm-gtk3 out (and this is also bad news for me because together with orta this is one of my all-time favs) but as we can see it's not going to be ported to gtk3.6 (ahh and don't read the link that MrMars gives as explanation for dropping the theme dev., really don't :mrgreen: )
That's very good advice.
Image
User avatar
mockturtl
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Mon Dec 10, 2012 1:16 am

cwwgateway wrote:The other problem is updating themes - how do we push themes to people, since LMDE is rolling? AFAIK we are using the standard mint repos, so we have to have a theme package to update from 3.4 to 3.6. Schoelje could ask clem to put a package in the mint repos, but otherwise I don't know how other than using the default Mint-X theme.


That is exactly my problem. I can't rely on Clem including any package I'd like to have in the repositories. The only viable solution is to start my own repository, and there I have another slight problem: I haven't got a clue how to do that (but it's high on my wish list).
User avatar
Schoelje
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 791
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 6:25 am
Location: Netherlands

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby bimsebasse on Mon Dec 10, 2012 2:44 am

Sorry, little side remark

Dark theme: have you guys tried forcing dark theme with Adwaita in gnome-tweak-tool? I think it's easily the prettiest dark theme at the moment ahead of old custom themes like atolm, and for obvious reasons gtk updates won't be an issue.

Image
Image
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
User avatar
bimsebasse
Level 7
Level 7
 
Posts: 1709
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:21 am
Location: Scandinavia

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby cwwgateway on Mon Dec 10, 2012 7:51 am

bimsebasse wrote:Sorry, little side remark

Dark theme: have you guys tried forcing dark theme with Adwaita in gnome-tweak-tool? I think it's easily the prettiest dark theme at the moment ahead of old custom themes like atolm, and for obvious reasons gtk updates won't be an issue.

I just looked at the gnome tweak tool dependencies, and there doesn't seem to be too much gnome-related stuff (and the 3.6 one has the same/similar deps), but I don't know if adwaita or gnome tweak tool work with Xfce.

Schoelje wrote:
cwwgateway wrote:The other problem is updating themes - how do we push themes to people, since LMDE is rolling? AFAIK we are using the standard mint repos, so we have to have a theme package to update from 3.4 to 3.6. Schoelje could ask clem to put a package in the mint repos, but otherwise I don't know how other than using the default Mint-X theme.


That is exactly my problem. I can't rely on Clem including any package I'd like to have in the repositories. The only viable solution is to start my own repository, and there I have another slight problem: I haven't got a clue how to do that (but it's high on my wish list).

I have no idea how setting up PPAs actually work, but in (my) theory you should be able to upload packages to it that work on Debian and then add the repo to your sources.list. They may have to be compatible with both Ubuntu and Debian (again, I don't know how PPAs work), but for themes that seems doable.

Otherwise, I don't know much about making repos.
Dell XPS 15 l502x - Debian Testing 64-bit NetInst Xfce, SolydX 64-bit Debian Testing, SolydK 64-bit SolydXK Testing
Old Gateway Pentium 4 Desktop - Arch Linux 64-bit Xfce and SolydX 32-bit Sid
cwwgateway
Level 5
Level 5
 
Posts: 839
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2011 10:44 pm

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby mockturtl on Mon Dec 10, 2012 9:40 am

Schoelje wrote:The only viable solution is to start my own repository, and there I have another slight problem: I haven't got a clue how to do that (but it's high on my wish list).
Maybe see ketoth's tutorial on mirrors, and notes on traffic.

Also reprepro.
Image
User avatar
mockturtl
Level 4
Level 4
 
Posts: 437
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 8:51 pm

Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby ChipButty on Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:13 am

Well I have been trying out Debian (Wheezy) and I'm not all that impressed really. I'm also trying out Crunchbang (testing) and really like it a lot, though on a different machine. Another thing is the forums seem to be friendlier than Debians. Not that I spent much time on the Debian forums but I saw one thread over there started by a LMDE user and he was given very harsh treatment in my opinion. On the other hand the documentation on Debian's site is second to none. I will be keeping an eye out on what goes on here with the unofficial XFCE but in the meantime I'll explore #! a little more. And updating my Mint KDE to 14 RC. :D
ChipButty
Level 1
Level 1
 
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:36 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Linux Mint is funded by ads and donations.
 
PreviousNext

Return to Chat about Linux

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests