Clock

[xulgar]

Is it just me or is the clock in Mint Maya Cinnamon stuck on military time?
No matter what I do the clock will not display an AM/PM format.
Is this something that can be fixed, or is it a bug that will be fixed at some point in the future?
Someone pleaase enlighten me.

[sagirfahmid3]

Yes indeedy, it can be fixed. This is a common "problem" in LXDE.
Right click on the clock and hit properties. (I don't use Cinnamon though, but there should be a setting like that).
Here, have a look at this page to customize the clock to your desires: http://linux.die.net/man/3/strftime

If all you want is: {hour}:{minute} {AM/PM}
Paste this in (whatever is inside the quotes--don't copy the quotes): "%I:%M %p"

[xulgar]

Thank you for your reply. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be an option. There is something similar to the letters and symbols but only for the date.
As far as the time goes you can either set it to 24 hour or AM/PM and network time on or off. But it doesn't seem to matter if you use 24 hour or AM/PM because it only seems to use 24 hour regardless. Not a huge problem really, just a little annoying is all.

[neodiabolus]

sagirfahmid3 is correct. If you click on the clock and click on "Date and Time Settings" there should be two fields you can fill in, "Date format for the panel" and "Date format inside the data applet." By default, the "Date format for the panel" field should have:

Code: Select all

%a %b %e, %H:%M

To change it to 12-hour time, paste this in instead:

Code: Select all

%a %b %e, %l:%M %p

The %a %b %e part keeps the weekday and the date, while the %l:%M %p part changes the time to 12-hour (%l), 60-minute (%M), and AM/PM (%p).

[oboedad55]

Is it just me or is the clock in Mint Maya Cinnamon stuck on military time?
No matter what I do the clock will not display an AM/PM format.
Is this something that can be fixed, or is it a bug that will be fixed at some point in the future?
Someone pleaase enlighten me.

Go into the calendar settings for Cinnamon (Cinnamon Settings). Change it to something like this: %a %b %e, %l:%M %P
That gives me Wed June 13 1:20 am

[xulgar]

Ok, that did it. Thank you very much. I would have never figured that one out.

[JMSNorthern]

So, this is a first post and I'm very new to Linux (2nd day of tinkering) and I'm a Windows power to expert user.

I'd just like to point out that I'm making this post as someone who very much agrees with the ideal of Linux and would like to transfer more and more of my PC usage time towards it (especially once the Steam Beta comes out), but am just vexxed sometimes by certain aspects of the user experience/interface.

Now I've read a lot about Linux for years now (without going past a LiveCD), and the whole concept of having a "Windows Brain" and that one should not be rude and assert "why isn't this like in Windows" in a Linux forum expecting help/friendliness, so know that I'm aware of that, but yet, this issue in particular I find myself unable to restrain myself from lambasting.

This is a post about me wanting to encourage the improvement of the Maya Cinnamon taskbar clock UI, not about me saying "Linux sux, this is garbage I'm not using this!" and saying I'm done with Linux, in a huff.

I intend to stick with it for awhile, even dealing with issues I find, as I say, vexxing, to determine if there is some sense behind them that I haven't yet grasped or that they are being improved/fixed. Also, this might not be the best place for designers to receive feedback I suppose, I'm not sure yet as I'm still new as I say, but I'll give it a try for now.

And I'm aware that this is a free operating system created with the donation of someone else's spare time, and I'm appreciative of that.

But all that said -

The Maya Cinnamon clock UI is terrible. At least for any sort of novice user or from the standpoint of trying to encourage new users into using the OS (and I know some people think that's a debatable goal in the Linux community).

1. It is set to military time by default. Leaving aside a discussion of the merits of a 24 hour clock, the fact is that most people in the world (and the "world" in general I'd argue) operate from a 12 hour clock, and that's just a fact, making this a bad default design choice.

(This however, is a very very minor issue, or well, it would have been if it were easy to figure out how to fix.)

Now some things I DO like about the clock, the default display of the time as "Wed Sep 5" I appreciate, couldn't do that in Windows (I think), and that's how I say the date (and it's nice to know the day of the week at glance without having to click into the calendar as on Windows).

And the calendar aspect itself is nice and clean looking with a simple but effective user inteface.

However, this all breaks down when you get to changing the time format.

Basically, this is one of the first issues I've been trying to solve in personalizing my Linux desktop so that it runs the way I want/expect it to. Why on earth, would you design a clock with a such a system that the user would need to check online in order to be _simply able to change the time format_?

I understand that Linux users like being able to completely control and customize their system, and that's a good thing (one thing I find appealing about Linux), and I'm not saying you shouldn't have that option here, but why can't it have 2 ways of doing this? A hackable-esque way and a simple, basic way for everyone else (and purely for speed imo as well).

Personally I don't see why there can't be a dropdown list in the UI for the day/month/year time format display with some of the most common arrangements, like Windows (again, as an option, if you want it the way it is, then fine, be able to do it like that too, I mention "like Windows" for a simple reason: because the way they do it is a good idea. I mean, I don't even think that's a Windows idea, you see that everywhere.)

But that's one thing, but what I CAN'T STAND, is a lack of such a simple solution for changing between 24hr & 12hr, I mean, there are only -TWO- options! Why, instead of having a simple check-box/drop down list for that option would you require the user to type in some sort of variable code signifier of the format instead for such a simple 2 choice scenario?

Now I saw the "Generate your own date formats" link, and clicked it, and from a quick scan of it I saw some code letters for the day/month/etc. format, but nothing about how to change th 24hr format.

Is this really good design? A drop down box/arrow for shifting formats _inarguably_ would be quicker, and easier I'd think, particularly for someone who is new to the environment.

Also, even if I did miss the code on the page and it was there (and I admit I didn't bother to do anything on the page beyond reading the initial one), what this implies is that I _should need Internet access_ in order to simply be able to figure out how to change the damned 24hr time format of the clock!

Certainly you can't just look at the code already there in the box and figure out what you need to type in (not to mention as I say, I think this is also a slow & stupid, if precise I grant, way of doing things, certainly when it's the ONLY option).

So I'm sorry to have to say, but the only thing I can say about the calendar UI in Cinnamon right now, is that it's not just bad, it's simply incompetent (and utterly baffling as a design choice, if not eventually in the way you actually make it work). And that's true even if Cinnamon is new (which, it's old enough to solve this issue imo) and the dev team is super busy, this is just a simply a no good excuse bad design implementation.

This is some honest new-user feedback if the devs. are interested (as I say, perhaps not the appropriate place, I will look into pointing the Cinnamon dev-team to this page later).

What is worst about this though, is for a brand new Linux user/Windows convert, if you are in fact trying to gain those, this is the FIRST task, and problem, I had upon using the operating system. Well, bascially. With any OS, the first things I do are:

Install -> connect wifi/configure password -> adjust the clock

To leave me baffled (and annoyed) as to how to do this, and require me to go to the Internet for a solution, basically immediately, on the first, and such a basic thing to do, it's just, well stunning you know. Job _not_ well done on this particular issue.

To anyone else: I'm aware that this would be, I guess a Cinnamon issue, and may not be present in other DE's like Gnome 3/KDE/XFCE, etc (all of which I tried in LiveCDs), so I'm not lumping any negative experience in with Linux just yet/because of this, just with Cinnamon I realize.

I would like to say though that overall so far (and the reason I chose it), I'm quite pleased with the Cinnamon desktop environment, it's slick, simple, seems well set up and semi-configurable (from what I've read, comparitively speaking), and relatively Windows-y, which is the predominant environment I'm currently comfortable with, it's just little issues like this calendar thing that sometimes pop-up that make me see why some people say it's hard to get into Linux.

If anyone wants to say I'm wrong on this issue, well, I don't see how you could, since evidently I'm not the only user who had an issue, the facts (of speed & usability), and the fact that I said I have no problem with the current highly-customizable implementation for changing the time (though honestly I think you could do it -exactly- as powerfully with just the GUI there too, and quicker) as long as there's a quick & basic option there as well. I mean, the way it currently is, it makes me wonder to a certain extent, well then why even have a GUI? Not for making changes so much as display apparently, in this case.

(*Edited for spelling/grammar)

-----

LinuxMint 13 (Maya) 32-Bit, Cinnamon, Intel Atom Netbook

[teilnehmer]

Hej JMS,

I love your post. I don't use Cinnamon, so I can't say much regarding user experience there, and I would doubt the fact that a majority of the world uses a 12-hour format, but I really admire it when someone manages to be understandably angry without being offending. Very clear communication.

Your points sound very valid to me. I tip my hat to you, kind regards,

Jan

[ChinaJ]

Gotta agree with JMS on this one. The above information helped me and worked immediately by getting my clock to the 12-hour clock. Just confused why, when I change it under "Date and Time" to a 12-hour clock (and it SHOWS the 12-hour with AM/PM in the display), why that doesn't change the applet time as well? I also have to wonder what the "Date and Time" change ACTUALLY changes... and where, other than in that particular setting itself.

-CJ

[twodogs]

I don't find anything wrong with the clock or how I'm supposed to adjust it. It's actually pretty simple.

My settings: %a %b %e, %_I:%M %p Shows: Fri Sep 7, 9:54 AM

[JMSNorthern]

I don't find anything wrong with the clock or how I'm supposed to adjust it. It's actually pretty simple.

My settings: %a %b %e, %_I:%M %p Shows: Fri Sep 7, 9:54 AM

No one said it was advanced algebra. But if I asked you to write down something in ancient Egyptian, that would still be a simple task, but not exactly an easy one if you had no idea how to read or write it (and don't bring Internet assistance/outside sources into that).

If you didn't read my original (rather long admittedly) post in it's entirety, let me just condense my problems with Cinnamon calendar/clock here then:

There's no clear way to change the default 24 hour time format to 12 hour format.

Sure it's simple to do, you overwrite the default "%a %b %e, %H:%M" with "%a %b %e, %l:%M %p", that took me just a few seconds to copy & paste over. Yes, simple, but not easy to figure out the first time doing it. I don't see how someone who has never dealt with that interface is likely to figure that out. They'll figure out that some of the variables stand for certain things, can be shuffled around, etc., but that "%H:M" means "24 hour" and should be replaced with "%l:%M %p" for "12 hour", how? If it was a case of it originally being "%a %b %e, 24", well, then fine, that would be somewhat intelligible, I would have just tried "%a %b %e, 12" instinctively. H's, M's, L's P's though, that doesn't suggest nearly as much to me.

(To anyone else reading this btw, if not all of that code is required for the 24/12hr part, I'm on my Windows desktop without my Linux system handy to screw around with some of the variables, and yes I could look them up more but I'm just trying to make this a quick and simple example to respond with, if not maybe %100 accurate about that part of the coding.)

In any case, it would be both simpler, and far, far easier for the user to have just had a drop-down list or option select choice for simple 12 hour or 24 hour format than the current implementation.

Not to mention, because that wasn't intelligible to a new user, the fact that they should need to seek out the Internet for help on how to change the clock's format from 24 to 12hr, despite actually having already found the right place to do it, just not being able to figure out how, well that's just nuts. And very discouraging for a brand new user I think, since it's one of the first things you do, and such a waste of time over such a simple thing you could be using on actually being productive or learning about other parts of the system.

Again, that part at least I don't see how one could argue with. Well it seems to me that actually you didn't even try. So if you disagree, fine, but I don't see the purpose in defending the current implementation against my complaints, without actually bothering to refute or address any of them.

(I should mention by the way, when I wrote my first post here, I was under the impression that Cinnamon was probably a year and a half or two years old, not less than a year old as it is. So I guess I can see how this might have slipped through the cracks as a not very high priority feature, but still, it seems an indefensible choice of UI to have chosen in the first place, and seems like such a basic core feature you would expect to be done right the first time. Of course, as long as it does get eventually addressed I would be happy.)

[dainapoo]

Yea, I don't want to just pounce on the man when he's down, but I have to agree with JMS. I have been using Linux (Ubuntu, actually) since late 2007, BUT I'm no geek. I'm a regular guy just trying to use my computer. I have tons of experience with things that don't work. From Flash blowing up at the drop of a hat to system lockups to this issue. Tonight I switched to Mint and first thing I noticed was the clock. One thing is for sure: I've gotten a whole lot better at searching forums for answers to technical issues since going to Linux. But after almost 5 years this is not something I look forward to doing, and at least once every 6 months, I throw my hands up and say "that's it". But, I like and appreciated "free". And like JMS, I too appreciate the whole idea of it. And I appreciate my Linux System Adminstrator son in law who encouraged me, installed the first version and walks me through every issue I can't find an answer to on a forum. Nowadays, when I do an install like this, going from Ubuntu 12.04 to Mint, we just make a day of it. My daughter and he come over, we cook, eat and install software. But I don't really like the hand holding that invariably takes place. Meanwhile, my neighbor, who is not nearly as technical as me just moved from Vista to Windows 7, by himself, no hand holding required.

All I'm saying is that this stuff has been out here long enoug now that we shouldn't HAVE to treat it like some do it yourself project. I really don't think I'm asking too much to just have it work, out of the box, with a minimum of fuss. I finally left Ubuntu because 12.04 crashed, Flash STILL crashed and I won't ever mention the desktop environment they apparently just decided to create whether anybody else likes it or not. I didn't so I left and found Mint. But just like Ubuntu, right out of the box, Flash crashed. Of course, we found the solution. I wanted to try Mate (because I loved Compiz) but after we installed it we couldn't find the "logout box". So back to Cinamon until the next time my son in law's over. I haven't found the solution myself yet, so I changed my forum search to the clock issue, which worked, but seriously, paste in %X*&blah blah blah- I would have never figured that out on my own and so I'm very thankful to you guys for being here. But still, really?

In almost 5 years, this is the first time I've posted anything on a forum because I didn't want to be smacked down by the geeks, but I appreciate JMS's and am finally emboldened to say something. I'm going to give this one last try, but this time I bought a copy of 7 from my neighbor, and even though I'm no friend of the evil empire, I use it at work, have been through many upgrades and haven't had the kinds of problems I have with Linux since Windows 95. And I won't even mention the A word.

[Frederator]

First, thanks to neodiabolus for his clear and helpful post, which worked as advertised.

Second, the point JMS is making should not necessary. He's quite right. The AM/PM radio button in the Date and Time applet should be all that is necessary to change such a basic setting.

[Orbmiser]

Totally Agree! It has been like that since I started in 2006. With no progress.

Left in 2008'ish for windows as linux didn't have much in choice for serious Photo Editing.
And video converting,burning,etc.. Options were few and primitive by windows standards.

Came back last month. As was floored at what Ubuntu did to their Distro! Tried couldn't get use to that Unity thing.
Found Mint Cinnamon 13 now 14RC and am pretty much in love.

Again was flabbergasted! At NO progress in CD/DVD burning apps. Brasero has always been Broken!.. And see now 0-zero progress in expanded features,stability or usability. Everone says go K3b. Fine now I have to bloat my system even more with Kde libraries & dependencies and use a Kde program which was the only solution in 2007 REally?

And they still include Brasero with basic gnome installation Really? again. And no options for a gnome CD/DVD yep a few mention old term driven programs or outdated still works abandoned programs. But nothing new and powerful for the gnome user unless he snitches from the KDE side.

If they want mainstream users then there will have to be a step up to the plate and progress on Missing basic Applications,Configuring,Adjusting system in a basic human way mouse easy gui click on options.

Not the geeky use the Term and enter incomprehensible cryptic commands & flags. Not all of us are 18 with perfect vision and lightning snap memory recall to call forth the power code of usability. And prefer mouse operation even with the term available. As I don't know the commands. The few I used awhile back I forgot. And waste more time trying to remember them or look them up.

Otherwise am about at the 90% usability mark for my needs. As lacking in applications options that have no acceptable equivalents for my needs. Was thrilled to see Darktable & RawThreepee for Image editing.

And know there is progress to made when basic solution for basic applications is windows programs & Wine is required in a linux environment.
.

[sagirfahmid3]

Linux was never meant for regular users; it was made by the geeks, for the geeks.
If you can't use Linux, too bad, boo-hoo, stick with Mac or Windows if you want your pretty point-and-click GUI and bloatware.
Linux does not have an obligation to be the most user friendly desktop in the world, nor does it have the intention of stomping out the competition.
Linux is a way of life. Sometimes, that life can be a wee bit difficult, but hey, when is life ever easy? If you can't live with it, switch to something you can live with.

As the user monkeyboy so eloquently puts it:

If you don't like it, make something better
If you can't make something better, adapt
If you can't do either ball your panties up and cry

[Orbmiser]

I See that manners isn't necessary either with the geeky linux user's?

Can find no fault with their own stance but plenty of fault with others thinking a different way.
Which may make linux even better for more users.

Instead you want to sit on your high horse of linux geeky uniqueness.
And make fun of other's that may want to try it in a different way.
Or what would make their linux experience better for them and their needs.

And have to disagree on your observations since coming back and seeing Ubuntu Unity & Kde in reference of bloatware. And many Distro's are doing exactly that aiming at the "Mainstream User".

And I would think a mature linux geek may have disagreed but without the need of belittling and deriving pleasure coming up with funny little quotes to degrade other's opinions. Which is also a violation of the forum guidelines.
.

[sagirfahmid3]

If I have violated community guidelines (which I have not), be my guest and report me.
As for your observation of Linux becoming targeted at non-geeks, that has become only so during recent times, with the leading OS being Ubuntu and Mint.
Ubuntu was founded in 2005, so the leading distro has had only 7 years to make itself perform better as a GUI (Windows has been around with a nice UI since Windows95, 17 years. Of course they will have an easier to use interface! They had more experience in that stuff, not to mention the programmers were PAID a salary so they had to work in a timely manner, unlike most of the Linux devs who are just programmers doing the project as a hobby).

[Frederator]

I didn't read Orbmister's post to say you violated community guidelines, just that you were rude.

[allypink]

Hey guys....... if linux is not for you, return to where you feel comfortable. Problem solved. I don't think anyone in the linux community is forcing you, needs you or anyone else to change to linux if you don't wish to. But if you want to expand your experience in computing welcome aboard...... it's a fun ride.
I guess most 'linux people' get a certain amount of pleasure and satisfaction of being part of a community where everything is not done for you. To be a happy linux user I believe that person has to accept there will be some personal challenges in adopting this format.
I have been using linux as my main and sometimes only system for 7 years. I thrill at the challenge of installing a new version of a distro. Loooove it. Very rarely do things go smoothly, but after many years I believe I am able to overcome most setbacks.
The concept of linux is socially and politically far removed from the main stream 'packaged operating systems'. But even these are seldom without fault; even after spending hundreds of millions of dollars and similar man-hours on coding.
I personally believe linux will never be able of offer the same out of the box experience as the big two. The very thing most of us like about linux means this will never be so.
You address your points and put your argument very eloquently. Forgive those of us who don't have your turn-of-phrase.
Happy computing.
Al

[bimsebasse]

I don't find anything wrong with the clock or how I'm supposed to adjust it. It's actually pretty simple.

My settings: %a %b %e, %_I:%M %p Shows: Fri Sep 7, 9:54 AM

No one said it was advanced algebra. But if I asked you to write down something in ancient Egyptian, that would still be a simple task, but not exactly an easy one if you had no idea how to read or write it (and don't bring Internet assistance/outside sources into that).

If you didn't read my original (rather long admittedly) post in it's entirety, let me just condense my problems with Cinnamon calendar/clock here then:

There's no clear way to change the default 24 hour time format to 12 hour format.

Sure it's simple to do, you overwrite the default "%a %b %e, %H:%M" with "%a %b %e, %l:%M %p", that took me just a few seconds to copy & paste over. Yes, simple, but not easy to figure out the first time doing it. I don't see how someone who has never dealt with that interface is likely to figure that out. They'll figure out that some of the variables stand for certain things, can be shuffled around, etc., but that "%H:M" means "24 hour" and should be replaced with "%l:%M %p" for "12 hour", how? If it was a case of it originally being "%a %b %e, 24", well, then fine, that would be somewhat intelligible, I would have just tried "%a %b %e, 12" instinctively. H's, M's, L's P's though, that doesn't suggest nearly as much to me.

Click "Generate your own formats" - it takes you to a site where the date format is explained in detail and where you can set the clock how you want it without even knowing the format key. It's right there.