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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby dritzominous on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:02 pm

If we include some mint tools and make sure it's polished, Clem won't have any problem approving LMDE Xfce for mint branding.

It's all about quality control.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby on4aa on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:06 pm

Sometimes all this makes me wonder: :?

Why not start an all new desktop,
written completely in Python and Qt
and completely compliant with http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/ standards?

The easy learning curve of Python would allow for more ordinary users to contribute, hence making the desktop environment more down to earth.
In combination with rolling Debian, that would be my dream distro!
Last edited by on4aa on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:10 pm

dritzominous wrote:If we include some mint tools and make sure it's polished, Clem won't have any problem approving LMDE Xfce for mint branding.

It's all about quality control.


About that, see my post on the unofficial LMDE KDE thread: viewtopic.php?p=660815#p660815
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby bimsebasse on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:12 pm

on4aa wrote:[*]mdm might be light, but users need each time to type their usernames. I currently use gdm3 to overcome this.[/*]


Not necessarily. For some reason Mint has chosen a default MDM theme that doesn't support userlists - it's simply a matter of picking one that does, then all you need is to click on your user and write the password. Not as elegant as the new GDM or LightDM, but not so cumbersome either.
Thank you for this thread. That’s all I can say. You most definitely have made this forum into something special. You clearly know what you are doing, you’ve covered so many bases. Thanks!
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:13 pm

on4aa wrote:Sometimes all this makes me wonder: :?

Why not start an all new desktop,
written completely in Python and Qt
and completely compliant with http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/ standards?

The easy learning curve of Python would allow for more ordinary users to contribute, hence making the desktop environment more down to earth.
In combination with rolling Debian, that would be my dream distro!


...and a maintenance nightmare for me...I'd need quite a number of talented programmers who are willing to spend many free hours, unpaid, on a niche product. Time will tell how Cinnamon is going to do, but for the short term that is not something I think about.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby OS2-User on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:05 pm

Schoelje wrote:
GeneC wrote:I believe that xfburn has been mentioned as a preferred CD/DVD burner for XFCE.

See :arrow: https://www.google.com/search?q=site#sc ... W10AHAooBQ

Seems a waste of time to fix something that is broken, than to use something that works.... :)


My sentiments exactly :)


I am fine with that, too, not realising, that XFCE has its own frontend.
Being a Gnome 2.28 user, I am simply accustomed to Brasero as optical disk burning frontend and wanted to provide the important info as well, that the powers to be at Debian/Ubuntu decided to ship a crippled Brasero version, which does no longer work with the original backend CDRTools.
Anyway, if, for whatever reason, someone might favour Brasero over xfburn later, when you replaced CDRKit with CDRTools, the info now is out here, why the Debian/Ubuntu repository version won't work.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:02 pm

on4aa wrote:@Schoelje
@zerozero
@GeneC
@all LMDE-XFCE-lovers

I only learned today about the tragic fate of the official LMDE XFCE distro... sorry for being a bit late at chiming in...
I manage about 8 LMDE-XFCE machines among my friends and family, so I feel particularly concerned. :x

I agree with zerozero and GeneC that a pure XFCE would be most welcome.
As for my customisations that might interest others:
  • I removed Nautilus and Thunar in favour of spacefm; Unlike Thunar, it offers tabs, file search and yet it is light and well maintained.
  • For more serious file management stuff, I use Double Commander
  • mdm might be light, but users need each time to type their usernames. I currently use gdm3 to overcome this.
  • Geekie, VLC, Osmo, KeePassX
  • I use a second vertical panel to launch my most-used applications. It fits well on 16:9 aspect ratio screens.
  • I developed a Recent Folders plugin.
  • I will PM Schoelje a Calc worksheet with all my installed packages and customisations.


Hi on4aa
Thanks for the interesting input. I'll take a look at spacefm, actually I find Thunar fine for my simple uses.. I added a couple of custom actions and upgraded to Thunar 1.6.1 (that does support tabs).

In my opinion, Clem should really allow the developers group to grow and welcome in and officially support a new LMDE XFCE developer team.
If not, we should simply fork and in order to gain visibility, set up or own site.
You really cannot expect potential new users to search for an obscure forum link, nor could you refer family or friends to this.


Interesting... :) Agreed, it and "Unofficial KDE" need more attention and that would do it, but sounds like LOTS of work... :shock:
Not against work myself, but personally I am lacking on TALENT needed for such endevours.... :lol:
Perhaps in time we will attract more people who can help. Never can tell.. :wink:
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby cwwgateway on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:08 pm

on4aa wrote:[*]mdm might be light, but users need each time to type their usernames. I currently use gdm3 to overcome this.[/*]
<<--snip-->>
In my opinion, Clem should really allow the developers group to grow and welcome in and officially support a new LMDE XFCE developer team.
If not, we should simply fork and in order to gain visibility, set up or own site.
You really cannot expect potential new users to search for an obscure forum link, nor could you refer family or friends to this.

GDM3 depends on gnome-session, which in turn depends on gnome-shell, which brings in all of gnome, so I'd avoid GDM3. Personally, I've had good experiences with LightDM. Over this weekend I'm going to do some multi-monitor tests with it (MDM doesn't work well with multiple monitors).

Clem actually offered to allow LMDE KDE (and I believe Xfce too) to become Community Editions, which would allow them to be semi-official. I am happy for Schoelje to maintain control of those two, but I don't really want to make a new distro. I do agree that visability is definitely a major problem, but I don't think another distro is the best answer.

I do think some advertising is needed - there are only ~60,000 forum users (and then some others who read but don't have an account), and the number of those people who find these threads and download it and use it must not be very large.

Edit: Just checked GDM3 dependencies, and it depends on gnome-shell OR another session (like xfce4-session). It still isn't particularly light though.
Last edited by cwwgateway on Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby GeneC on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:19 pm

cwwgateway wrote:...........................Clem actually offered to allow LMDE KDE (and I believe Xfce too) to become Community Editions, which would allow them to be semi-official. I am happy for Schoelje to maintain control of those two, but I don't really want to make a new distro. I do agree that visability is definitely a major problem, but I don't think another distro is the best answer.

I do think some advertising is needed - there are only ~60,000 forum users (and then some others who read but don't have an account), and the number of those people who find these threads and download it and use it must not be very large.


Hi cww... :)
Yes, but there is a catch.
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=113571&p=660815#p660815

e: The unofficial LMDE KDE UP5 [UPDATE: 16/10/2012]
by Schoelje on Mon Dec 17, 2012 7:18 am

A week ago Clem proposed to make the unofficial LMDE KDE into a CE.
Testing would be done by the mint team and the distribution along with the others (a big pro). On the other hand, I would loose my very valued freedom (a big con).

I had to think about that and I just had a chat with Clem to let him know my decision.
LMDE KDE (and a slimmed down LMDE Xfce) are too much fun to give up. I really believe that all LMDE versions should at least have the same attention as the others, and really, don't you think that LMDE with the KDE desktop is the best Linux Mint could offer ?
So, I've been doing some really serious thinking and I've decided not to do it. Mind you, I have no intention to quit. It's ok how it goes now, and we'll be doing this for a while to come, but I really would like to have LMDE KDE the user base it deserves. Plans are brewing...


Things are probably better the way they are ("Unofficial" XFCE, and KDE), and Schoelje appears to prefer it that way. We end users would have more input and Schoelje more freedom to do what he wants. What do you think?
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby mockturtl on Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:12 pm

GeneC wrote:What do you think?
I think you guys are all nuts. :lol:

Schoelje wrote:It's ok how it goes now, and we'll be doing this for a while to come, but I really would like to have LMDE KDE the user base it deserves. Plans are brewing...
Smells like a new distro cookin'.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby jjaythomas on Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:18 pm

I only learned today about the tragic fate of the official LMDE XFCE distro... sorry for being a bit late at chiming in...
I manage about 8 LMDE-XFCE machines among my friends and family, so I feel particularly concerned. :x


I'm even later :lol:

Sorry for my ignorant qustions :oops:

1. Seems like LMDE-Xfce spins ar being dropped right? (my LMDE-Xfce was based on another distro anyways) 'Swift'
2. is their a Web page or something dedicated to this project (forums/questions & answers ect.)

read pros/cons to this reasoning thinks makes sense for Mint/Clem now because of distro size and scope... BUT personally (& looks like small group of others) feel it outgrew me :cry:

J.Jay
P.S. because my LMDE-Xfce was based with other distro why I preffered GUI to CLI solutions (not sure if would work in LMDE(straight) even tho I used alot of CLI/scripts. :twisted:
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby cwwgateway on Fri Dec 21, 2012 8:27 pm

GeneC wrote:Hi cww... :)
Yes, but there is a catch.
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=113571&p=660815#p660815

<--snip-->

Things are probably better the way they are ("Unofficial" XFCE, and KDE), and Schoelje appears to prefer it that way. We end users would have more input and Schoelje more freedom to do what he wants. What do you think?

I definitely agree that there's a big catch, and I mostly agree with the decision. I just wanted to point out that Clem did offer (I think a few people are a little bit frustrated with him right now, so I guess it's important to note that). I personally love being able to give feedback and have it taken into consideration.

The worry I have is that eventually Schoelje will want to grow the userbase beyond those of use who have found this thread (which would be awesome :D ), and he will find that becoming a CE or making his own distro are the only two viable options (there may be many others, but those are the ones I can think of). I think both of those directions have pros and cons (as with everything), but I'm not sure either are great answers. Obviously it's Schoelje's project and he will make the decision (and probably the best one :) ).

Anyways, everything's good for now (and hopefully it will stay that way) :D .
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby visnotjl on Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:40 pm

Hallo Schoelje,
I have been using XFCE for the last five years. Tried: Xubuntu, Saline, Debian, Fedora. Each one with small differences, "bugs and cakes".
Xfce is stable, has a relatively small footprint, works on old hardware too. If I can help you to maintain the "unofficial" I would be very glad to contribute. Unfortunately I' m not a "guru", but if a little debugging and a "tail -f syslog" can help somehow, I' m here.
Best Regards.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:28 pm

visnotjl wrote:Hallo Schoelje,
I have been using XFCE for the last five years. Tried: Xubuntu, Saline, Debian, Fedora. Each one with small differences, "bugs and cakes".
Xfce is stable, has a relatively small footprint, works on old hardware too. If I can help you to maintain the "unofficial" I would be very glad to contribute. Unfortunately I' m not a "guru", but if a little debugging and a "tail -f syslog" can help somehow, I' m here.
Best Regards.


Welcome to the Linux Mint forum, and I'll keep that in mind!
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby Schoelje on Mon Dec 24, 2012 5:53 pm

A short update on the unofficial LMDE Xfce

Now that I released rc1 of the unofficial LMDE KDE for people to test (viewtopic.php?p=663761#p663761), I had a few hours to spend on the unofficial LMDE Xfce.
I used a standard Debian live iso to start with and installed Siduction's Xfce 4.10.
All applications are installed and I think most firmware and drivers too.
I ended up with an iso of just under 800 MB.

It start, but all looks very Debian standard.
Now the hard work has to start: make it look like it's actually a Linux Mint edition...but that's going to have to wait until after the holidays.

Merry Christmas!
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby jjaythomas on Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:08 am

My 2cent worth...

remember puttining xfce 4.10 in tho won't work with all supporting cast (plugins, apps, ect) that will be in the current repos.

I loved Mint 13 using Xfce 4.10 (from ppa) but if you use extra (non default) plugins its a 'gamble' if what was in repos work. Even some apps that can intergrate/use additional features with xfce may lose that functionality. But went back to a fully functional (for me) Xubuntu 12.04 (without ppa) with Xfce 4.8.

Its less of a issue with this (targeted) crowd because we'll know what to expect, and maybe know how to fix or recompile to work.

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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby dritzominous on Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:53 am

@ Schoelje

Could I see the package list you've got on your Xfce iso?

dpgk --get-selections > ur_text_file > a pastebin

^ or something like that? :lol:
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby on4aa on Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:52 am

@Schoelje
Thunar should have tabs now. Could you please check that?

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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby on4aa on Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:13 am

I created two new threads to keep it separate from the more emotional stuff over here:

What are your LMDE XFCE customizations ???
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=189&t=120833
mainly for scripts, fine-tuning, package lists, etc.
I already posted some of my recipes.

and

What should the new LMDE XFCE look like ???
http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=61&t=120848
This is the place to discuss colors, fonts, window borders, etc.
I am quite agnostic about this, but please feel free to give your opinion, screenshots ...
Last edited by on4aa on Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The unofficial LMDE XFCE

Postby on4aa on Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:47 am

About LMDE XFCE "marketing"
This is emotional, so I post it here. :wink:

If you would ask me "What unites people over here?"

I would answer: The following three items:
  • LMDE is a rolling release, i.e. for people who do not want to reinstall their operating system every six months.
  • LMDE combines the vast package repository, compatibility and workable freshness of Debian testing with the beauty and pragmatism of the Mint add-ons, less the Ubuntu desktop mischievousness.
  • XFCE offers a non-experimental, stable, traditional desktop with a small memory footprint.
Last edited by xenopeek on Wed Dec 26, 2012 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Merged to this topic.
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